[Not-So-Secret Secret Assassin]

Here are some quite accurate depictions of the characters from my current WIP.

 

Flawless and handsome (as ruled by my grandmother.)

[Not-So-Secret Secret Assassin]

@felicity

You spoke so highly of me. Why have you suddenly decided to challenge me to a duel?

*Grasps coupe-ongles*

Flawless and handsome (as ruled by my grandmother.)

[Not-So-Secret Secret Assassin]

Also, if you just want to skip  to the second chapter to read what i wrote, you can. You don’t need to read the first chapter to understand the second chapter.

Flawless and handsome (as ruled by my grandmother.)

[Not-So-Secret Secret Assassin]

@anne-of-lothlorien @gretald @elishavet-pidyon @koshka @anatra23 @joy-caroline @devastate-lasting @elfwing @elanor @e-k-seaver @trahia-the-minstrel @william-starkey @abigail-m @thelobsterlover @gracie-j @r-m-archer @power @kathleenramm @morgan @godlyfantasy12 @anyone-else-who-wants-to-bash-my-writing @anyone-who-is-in-the-mood-to-set-their-eyes-on-a-masterpiece-because-i-definitely-did-write-a-masterpiece-it’s-not-trash-at-all

Flawless and handsome (as ruled by my grandmother.)

[Not-So-Secret Secret Assassin]

@r-m-archer

Thanks for helping me understand a bit better!

Also, sorry if I sounded a bit “un-gracious” there, but I guess what I meant wasn’t anything against the author, but the story. (I’m also a terrible writer, and it would indeed be bad news for me if the notion of improvement didn’t exist). So to rephrase: If the characters, world, and plot already failed to hook me in an entire novel, then it’s hard for me to imagine ever getting immersed and enjoying the story going forward. At least, not as much as the rest of the fanbase.

It was sort of like it was a bad first impression of the series, and it’s going to be hard to shake that first impression. And to me, the first book was too much of an unstable foundation to begin a series.

There weren’t enough interesting ideas and story threads set up in the first book that would have any catharsis or interesting developments in upcoming books.

I don’t even know if that makes sense, but that’s just what I think.

But that’s a bit off topic. I guess my whole point in starting this forum topic was to try to understand why people enjoyed the first book, and what they were looking at when all I could see was all the writing problems I mentioned above.

I don’t want to hate this book. And I’m not sure if I’m ever going to be convinced to continue the series. But I DO want to understand the appeal of this book from writers more experienced than I.

So yeah. I’m just genuinely curious: what did you enjoy about the characters? What did you enjoy about the plot? And what do you think about the criticisms I had in terms of the plot problems, low conflict (particularly the unthreatening Fangs), repetitive plot (particularly Leeli repeatedly getting captured), lack of tension, and pacing? Agree? Disagree?

I just want to get another writer’s opinion.

 

@elishavet-pidyon

Thanks for explaining to me your thoughts on the series. This really helped me understand a lot better how this story could appeal to people on a deeper level.

Thanks!

 

@power

Good idea. What are your thoughts on the Wingfeather books yourself?

 

@e-k-seaver

🙂

@kathleenramm

You have chosen well to agree with me.

@morgan

Actually, yeah, your comment was helpful. Before I was kind of thinking I was going crazy because I was the only one who didn’t like this series. But it sounds like you also had a few problems with it. And I agree: interesting ideas, but not the best book.

Yeah, and I think you’re right about the part that the books are better if you don’t try to analyze them. I might have been expecting too much from a middle grade book. But even then, I’ve read middle grade books that have been a lot more exciting and deeper than this, so I’m confused.
But now I am rambling like a grandpa so I’ll stop now.

 

@godlyfantasy12

Glad you enjoy the books!

What do you enjoy about them?

 

@abigail-m

Epic. I am very much eager to read your thoughts. I’m actually very much wanting to hear what you have to say about them.

When you finish the book, please write a follow-up forum topic entitled “Wow! Not-so-secret-secret-assassin is BASED. He was right the whole time!!”

Please.

Thank you.

Have a nice day.

 

Flawless and handsome (as ruled by my grandmother.)

[Not-So-Secret Secret Assassin]

Already did.

Flawless and handsome (as ruled by my grandmother.)

[Not-So-Secret Secret Assassin]

@devastate-lasting
True. Where do all those Eastern Dragons be tho?

@trahia-the-minstrel

True. True. I actually liked the three introductions when I first read it too. I thought it was a deliberate poke at all the fantasy clichés. I hoped the story would be a somewhat fun yet heartfelt parody of the common fantasy stories. However, the rest of the book was just unironically cliché. Not fun to read.

The footnotes too were pretty good at first, until I realized they didn’t really add anything to the story. So I just had to start skipping them.

I’m not sure I want to have to get through another mediocre book and a half to get to the end of book 3? Is it still worth reading if I don’t like any of the characters?

@r-m-archer

Thanks for your reply.

Besides the writing style, was there anything else that appealed to you in the first book? I’m still trying to wrap my head around the appeal of the first book. And is it still worth reading if I don’t like any of the characters?

I guess one of the other reasons why I didn’t like the footnotes and the writing style was that it felt like it was trying too hard.  There’s a stark difference between charm and humor that is forced and then charm and humor that flows naturally. When it doesn’t flow naturally, it just becomes sort of cringe.

You don’t remember the second book? That’s not a good sign.

I’m just not really sure how to get myself to keep reading after a less than spectacular first book. I don’t know.

@e-k-seaver
If there are four books in a series, and only two of them are good, that means that the series as a whole is 50% on the mark.
50% by school standards is an F.
Therefore, the series across the board is an F.
I rest my case.

@nova21
=O

@elishavet-pidyon

Thanks for your reply to my review.

But due to my trauma from the first book, I might need some therapy before reading on.

But my impression from reading this forum thread, is that all the hype for this series comes from the last two books apparently? Is that right?

I’m honestly kind of scared to read the second book. All the characters kind of annoyed me, and I don’t really want to read about them anymore. So, could you maybe give me a brief idea about what the book is about and some reasons to read it?  What kind of issues does it have? Don’t worry about giving spoilers. I don’t mind.

Also, if you were skeptical of the first book, what prompted you to keep reading? What else did you like about the first books specifically? Again, I just can’t see anything good about the first book.

Also, the writing style and the way Peterson set up the story already says a lot about his writing. It’s really hard for me to foresee it improving.

@koshka
I’m glad you liked it.
But what specifically do you like about the first book? I just really want to understand.
Also, I’m not sure I can stomach reading another sentence about Podo and his wackiness. To be honest, I did try reading the second book. But it was really difficult to even get through the first paragraph. Let alone the first page. What am I supposed to do if I don’t like any of the characters, like, at all?

I guess I just wish the first book had all the good character development, worldbuilding, and plot that is supposedly in the last two books.

The first book just really, really turned me off.

@keilah-h
Yeah, I actually read the How to Train Your Dragon books a long time ago.
And sure, they were childish, but for some reason they still had a charm to them. They also had this self-depreciating, self-awareness to them that made them easy to read. I could tell that Peterson was trying to make his books charming and funny, but he just missed the mark. Maybe it’s because it felt forced and tried to take itself too seriously, whereas How to Train Your Dragon felt more natural.
Also, Wingfeather wasn’t even that silly. It was just kinda cringe and boring. I don’t know.

Even if Podo has a backstory, he still came off as too wacky and annoying in the first book. My argument still stands.

And sure, I didn’t finish the other books, but I did finish the first book, so I can  still say that the first book is pretty much trash.

Soooooo are there more dragons in the following books? The first book had hardly any.

Flawless and handsome (as ruled by my grandmother.)

[Not-So-Secret Secret Assassin]

@elanor

I have written quite a few escape scenes in my lifetime (the very nature of my stories require it to be so), and cliche escape scenes are one of my pet peeves in stories, so I think that I have a few tips that I can help you with.
First, what constitutes a “bad escape scene”?
1. It’s super easy, and it makes the villain look weak
2. It’s (like you mentioned) cliche and something we’ve seen before
3. It’s not satisfying. The “getting captured and imprisoned” plot arc is used a lot for a reason. The stakes are high and the main characters are at their weakest. It’s a really great story dynamic and when it’s ruined by an unsatisfying escape scene, the readers would rather the characters have just continued being locked up.
4. It’s convenient. Somehow, the guards are just conveniently not good at fighting that day. And they are just conveniently not guarding a crucial part of the prison. Or one guard just conveniently happens to be sleepy that day.

So to make your escape scene difficult, original, and satisfying, here are some ideas:

1. Push the characters to their breaking point. Why are they escaping now of all times? What bad thing will happen if they don’t escape now?
2. Don’t make your prison or whatever convenient for your characters to escape from. Instead of making the prison fit your character’s escape plan, set up your prison first in a logical way, and then make your characters have to work around it. Make your characters conform to the prison, don’t let the prison conform to your characters.
3. Don’t focus on trying to make your escape scene non cliche. Instead, focus on your characters and how they grow in the scene. What is your main character’s weakness and main struggle? How do they struggle even more in this scene because of it? How do they overcome it? Stuff like that.
4. Wrap up or develop a mini subplot. For example, the main character is trying to learn a skill/ superpower/ technique/ etc but has been struggling for the longest time. Here, at the most crucial moment he learns it. Or, another example would be two characters distrust each other, but at the most crucial moment one saves the other, and they become friends. Something like that to wrap up or develop a subplot.
5. Add interpersonal conflict. One of the things that make an escape scene boring is that it just focuses on the outer conflict with them fighting the guards and whatnot. Adding conflict between the characters who are escaping makes it even more intense and unique. Maybe the two of them have different ideas on how to escape. Maybe one of them suspects the other might betray them. Maybe they are escaping with someone who is really super shifty. Anything.
6. Use the “out of the frying pan and into the fire” technique. Instead of making them just escape, and then safely go to base camp, throw them out into the wild where the stakes are even higher and now they are being hunted. For example, in The Two Towers Merry and Pippin escape the orcs, only to enter the “haunted” Fangorn forest.
7. Use the “nothing goes as planned” technique. When things go terribly wrong, but your characters still find a way to make it out (albeit through tough decisions and sacrifices) that’s quite satisfying to read. For example, they might have planned to escape with a few other people or grab a few supplies on their way out. But since their plan failed, they will have to make the heart wrenching decision to just leave it/ them behind.
8. Use the escape as a growth milestone for your characters. If your character is struggling with trusting people, make this the milestone where she really has to put her trust in someone, for example. And similarly, if your character is going down a negative character arc, this will be the milestone where they really take a step into darkness (like, they kill someone or give into their anger and hatred).
9. Force your characters to use skills that they aren’t really adept in. (A character who isn’t good at making plans has to make a plan. A character who loves plans has to learn to be flexible. A character who is pretty weak physically has to do a lot of running and climbing. A character who doesn’t like to hurt anyone has to fight. Etcetera.)
10. Ask yourself what the escape scene is “really” about.

In the Return of the King, when Sam rescues Frodo, that is a very character-focused scene. First, we get the Orcs’ weakness (which we have seen over and over again) greed.
Then the focus is on Sam and his character – his determination and courage to rescue his friend as he fights through the orcs.
This scene isn’t just about Sam fighting Orcs. It’s about Sacrifice v Greed. It’s about Sam reuniting with Frodo and finally reconciling the argument and misunderstanding they had before. It’s a key moment in their friendship. And it’s a key moment in Frodo’s internal journey as we realize that The Ring is more powerful than ever now, and it’s getting harder for Frodo to resist.
Some other examples of this I’ve scene in escapes scenes are stuff like:
The main character finally stepping into a leadership role
The main character letting go of despair and finding hope
The main character deciding not to trust anyone anymore, and just rely on his own power.

So, yeah. Just try to understand the abstract idea behind your scene. It’s essence. What it’s really about.

I have a lot more points, but I’ll just stop there.

From the summary you gave, it looks like you’re already on the right track.
So I hope this gave you some more ideas. Go write an epic escape scene!

Flawless and handsome (as ruled by my grandmother.)

[Not-So-Secret Secret Assassin]

@abigail-m

you didn’t have to cross the “better than a comedian” part out. I’ll take that compliment proudly.

Thanks for the story, the yoda quote, and tips. But honestly, time isn’t my problem. I have several hours of free time a day where I just lay down and stare up at the sky and contemplate my life and daydream about what could have been.

My problem is that my muscles are too big, and I can barely reach the keyboard. It took me a really, really long time to type this all out. Don’t even ask how long it took me to write that wingfeather rant. Not to mention, my finger muscles are so strong, that sometimes I accidentally break a few keys in the key board as I type. Especially if I’m writing when I’m angry. That happened to be the case very recently.

Yes, there is a snack bar at my gym. It’s pretty swag.

 

@e-k-seaver

Just a question… If I was 13-15, would I be able to drive to the gym by myself? Just something to think about. Not sayin just sayin.

@nova21 How many push ups can you do?

Flawless and handsome (as ruled by my grandmother.)

[Not-So-Secret Secret Assassin]

@devastate-lasting Your silence speaks volumes. You HAVE read it before, Linyang. You just chose to give yourself amnesia so you didn’t have to continue having nightmares about it. Smart choice. Any tips for self induced amnesia? Oh yeah, you wouldn’t remember.

And thanks for your blessing. I’ll need it.

Flawless and handsome (as ruled by my grandmother.)

[Not-So-Secret Secret Assassin]

I don’t like anime. It’s too nerdy for me. I’m not a cringe weeb. I’ve moved on to greater things.

That said, I only like Attack on Titan.

And maybe Full Metal Alchemist.

And To Your Eternity.

And Erased.

And Death Note.

And The Promised Neverland.

And Your Lie In April.

And Hunter X Hunter.

But other than that, there definitely isn’t any anime that I like. Most definitely not.

@anatra23 Is Jujustu Kaisen and Violet Evergarden worth checking out? Not that I’m interested or anything. Just making conversation, you know?

@devastate-lasting You like Phil.

@devastate-lasting whatwhat. you didn’t watch the anime for The Promised Neverland. But it’s one the best pieces of cinema in the world. Not that I like it or anything. That’s what other people say.

Flawless and handsome (as ruled by my grandmother.)

[Not-So-Secret Secret Assassin]

@reaganramm

Flawless and handsome (as ruled by my grandmother.)

[Not-So-Secret Secret Assassin]

@anne-of-lothlorien @christi-eaton @gretald @elishavet-pidyon @koshka @keilah-h @anatra23 @joy-caroline @devastate-lasting @elfwing @elanor @e-k-seaver @trahia-the-minstrel @william-starkey @abigail-m @whoever-likes-the-trashfeather-saga

Okay. I’m going back to the gym now. This was way too much nerdy book stuff for one day.

IT’S LEG DAY BABY LEZZ GOOOO!

Flawless and handsome (as ruled by my grandmother.)

[Not-So-Secret Secret Assassin]

@e-k-seaver

I’ll let you believe whatever you want. 🙂

Flawless and handsome (as ruled by my grandmother.)

[Not-So-Secret Secret Assassin]

@e-k-seaver @devastate-lasting @anatra23

I’ll give you a hint.

Between ages 5-30

Hope that narrows it down a little bit.

Flawless and handsome (as ruled by my grandmother.)

[Author]

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