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@mark-kamibaya Thank you! I like it too.
I think that my favorite movie with a great theme is Maleficent. I can’t really say too much without giving spoilers, but it is definitely a movie I’d recommend.☀ ☀ ☀ ENFP ☀ ☀ ☀
@Mark-Kamibaya Ah, yes that makes more sense. So a choice between two evils in this way would be like this: you can either do what’s right even if it’s to your own harm (sacrificial something), or do what you want to even if it’s morally wrong. Is that right?
And at least watch BtM. Then draw your own conclusions. 🙂
@Daeus Ooh, I haven’t watched Chariots of Fire but some of the family has. I know the Eric Liddell story, and I can imagine how nice a well done movie would be for the theme. I’m sure I’ll see it sometime.
And yes that Ben Franklin was hilarious. 😀@emma-flournoy The really amazing part is how well they handled Eric’s foil. Watch it.
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@Daeus I LOVE well done foils!! Okay, I’ll watch it someday. In the near future, if I can help it. 😉
@kate-flournoy Aah. I understand that. It is quite amazing when films stay true to the works they adapted from. Henry V is actually what I’m learning right now, and I can see a lot of potential for great drama and action. Shakespeare did seem to specialize in amazing characters (besides verbose dialogue) so it’s not surprising that that is Henry V strongest assets. I wouldn’t exactly say that I am an action-oriented viewer (I dislike a lot of the modern action movies. I watch them so I can talk to friends, you know? I mean I have only two movies in my #5 rating and one is a drama and the other is a romance).
@daeus I’m taking offense there. JK 😛 I personally think movies have a whole lot more potential for subtext than books and, therefore, end up having stronger themes. The problem is that many filmmakers don’t utilize that as much. So . . . I guess you’re right. And Chariots of Fire was like one of the first “for the big kids” movies that I watched. I was like 6 or 7. You rave about it so much! It makes me want to watch it again with a more critical eye. Makes me appreciate stuff more. It’s interesting that you mention Eric’s foil. I think that guy was actually more of the main character. What do you think?
@emma-flournoy Ummmm . . . not exactly. I would say that a choice between two evils is like Sophie’s Choice. According to Wikipedia, this is the relevant part:upon arrival at Auschwitz, she (Sophie) was forced to choose which one of her two children would be gassed and which would proceed to the labor camp. To avoid having both children killed, she chose her son, Jan, to be sent to the children’s camp, and her daughter, Eva, to be sent to her death.
That, my friend, is a true choice between two evils. What you suggest is actually still a positive choice. I’m getting a kick out of saying this next part cuz I’m, you know, more plot-centric. I feel like a hypocrite. Anyway . . .
In order to find out the difference you have to put yourself in your character’s shoes. Let’s take a look at your hypothetical situation. Is it a positive thing “to do what’s right even if it’s to your own harm (sacrificial something)?” Yes, because you’re doing what’s right. Now is it a positive thing to “do what you want to even if it’s morally wrong?” Actually, yes. Because you’re getting what you want.
For Sophie it was the exact opposite. Both choices were negative. ‘Cause sentencing one of your children to die is a bad thing, right? So look at it from a subjective instead of objective point of view. As hard as you can, rationalize a choice to make it look positive. If you can’t then that choice is negative. Hopefully you’ll have more conflicting choices and better themes throughout.
Oh, and be sure to watch Chariots of Fire. The movie is great (from what I remember). But the foils were like the best part.
@dragon-snapper Maleficent is a movie I haven’t watched. I’ve seen some of it, but stopped. I didn’t think it was that great (isn’t the theme a bit like Frozen’s? Like the theme of “Who needs guys?”), but I may be wrong.I blog on story and spiritual things at mkami.weebly.com
(isn’t the theme a bit like Frozen’s? Like the theme of “Who needs guys?”)
That is hilarious. I have seen both Maleficent and Frozen, and that take on either theme did not even remotely cross my mind. I guess you could mayyyyybe see that with Maleficent, but the biggest takeaway I got from Maleficent’s theme was ‘there are other loves besides romance, and they are just as powerful.’ I enjoyed Maleficent— I think it was rather crippled by lack of dialogue in the beginning and the acting wasn’t the greatest, but I did enjoy it otherwise.
And that perspective on theme— two evils— is fascinating… I shall have to mull over that more.
Oh, good! You should definitely check out Henry V then. Dare I ask which two movies are the two 5s? 😀
@Mark-Kamibaya They focused about equally on both the main characters, though I guess the foil’s POV was used more. You could also argue though that Eric was the bigger hero.
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@kate-flournoy Yeah, that’s all just hearsay though. I haven’t even completely watched either movies. So, yeah. At least you enjoyed them. As for the perspective on themes: just remember that most difficult choices are actually two goods. I’ve seen more movies that have choices of two goods rather than two evils. I think it’s because with two goods you have more at risk. With two evils you get hurt either way. And I will check out Henry V. I promise. The movies that are two 5s . . . I don’t know if I should tell you. You’re like 18 right? Around that age? And you do use movie filters, right? ‘Cause both movies require movie filters. And they both dabble with controversial subject matter. The drama is Whiplash. Best drama I’ve ever seen. The romance . . . I won’t tell you. Another movie (romance) that almost went to 5 stars is 500 Days of Summer. It is almost the best romance I’ve ever seen. And it also requires a movie filter.
I blog on story and spiritual things at mkami.weebly.com
@daeus Eric was the bigger hero. But I think that the fact that they used the other guy’s POV more signifies something. Maybe because he’s a better (multi-dimensional) character?
I blog on story and spiritual things at mkami.weebly.com
@Mark-Kamibaya Probably because his inner struggle was more intense which is always interesting. It could also be to seem less pushy with the theme. As in, “Look, we’ll prove this to you with your own guy.”
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@Mark-Kamibaya I like discussing deep questions. I tend to get frustrated when I don’t understand exactly what’s being said though, so thanks for bearing with me. 😉
With your first example, Eve, it doesn’t seem like that’s two true goods—on the one hand she can be happy with God, and on the another she can be like God…but with the latter, that could also be taken as an evil because she has to disobey to get there. So it would be two goods only in Eve’s mind, not to anyone else. Is that how you meant it? Because with the example you just gave, Sophie’s choice, the two choices were both definitely evil, to anyone who would see it, not just Sophie.
Both examples don’t seem to match up with the theory.Let’s take a look at your hypothetical situation. Is it a positive thing “to do what’s right even if it’s to your own harm (sacrificial something)?” Yes, because you’re doing what’s right. Now is it a positive thing to “do what you want to even if it’s morally wrong?” Actually, yes. Because you’re getting what you want.
Couldn’t those also be taken as evil too, though, since if you look at from another way, with the first choice you bring harm to yourself (bad—or do you mean something only morally wrong?), and with the second you’re doing something morally wrong. While you could rationalize them as good, they could be bad from a different perspective.
D’you see what I’m saying?
Or am I totally missing your point somewhere… 😛
Oh, and @Daeus @Mark-Kamibaya is the foil character you’re talking of in CoF someone who was real? I know the basics of the real story but I can’t think of anyone who’d be the way I’m seeing the guy you’re talking about. Is it a real historical character?
@mark-kamibaya No, I don’t like that theme of the movie. I’m talking about the powerful turn-around of characters. It has a good theme in that, but yeah, otherwise it is like Frozen. (And I can’t stand Frozen) 🙁 *melts the movie*
☀ ☀ ☀ ENFP ☀ ☀ ☀
@emma-flournoy Well, the movie gave the date for his death, so I assume he was real.
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@Daeus What’s his name? I might want to look him (the historical one) up. Do you think I shouldn’t if I’m going to watch the movie—spoilers?
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