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- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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@devastate-lasting @r-m-archer
*claps* That was so very well put! Even the Bible says we’re incapable of understanding God until we get to heaven, so good point. I would agree with you that yeah, we’ll probably have to let this subject matter just pass, ’cause after all, I don’t want this to be anything other than a friendly space. You’re right, it can be controversial, so let’s stop while we’re ahead. No hard feelings 🙂
@devastate-lasting @joy-caroline
*nods* At this point I don’t think there’s anything I could say that wouldn’t be repeating myself, so I was stepping back anyway (for real this time, lol). I think this is the last point we could stop amicably, as far as this topic is concerned, so that’s definitely best. ;P
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
- Total Posts: 1379
Agreed. *waves at you* See ya around the other topics!
Okay. So, finally getting around to this, sorry it’s taken a bit!
On family-related titles: Yes, generally they are stand-alone, like mom or dad, when you’re referring directly to your own parent. However, if someone else is talking, they’ll say “ocaasan” – the “san” is almost inseparable in family titles like aunt, uncle, grandmother and grandfather (and in this case father and mother) so I’ve never thought it as a suffix per se, but I guess you can treat it like one. It would be considered an insult if someone just called their friend’s mom “ocaa.” I’m not sure if I’m understanding your question, but obaachan (or more formally obaasan) is the word used for grandmothers and also often older ladies in general. Village matriarch… sensei doesn’t seem to fit, it lends itself more to an instructor type of person. I had a conversation with my mom (I’m learning from her) and she said the word for a “village” leader as opposed to “city” would be “son-cho” – “cho” meaning “leader” and “son” referring to the village aspect. The word for a city’s mayor would be similar, only with “shi-cho” – “shi” for the city part. Yet “cho” is not so much of a suffix as just a part of a word that can be used for things involving the concept of leader, company manager, etc. So. I don’t know if I answered your question with all of that. But if I can condense everything to try to do so now, I think what you have (lonpaia and dachaia) are absolutely fine – but when talking directly to them, it would be important to add “san” or whatever title-suffix you’re looking at. Long story short, though, all the titles depend so much on different situations. It’s… confusing, to say the least.
I hope that answers your questions.
There are not titles for junior or senior, actually. None that I know of. None that my mom knows of. I didn’t find any when I went searching. So, in Japanese language suffixes don’t stack. But that’s not to say you can’t use that technique in your language… it’s up to you how to work around the age-suffixes the way you like : )
Also, quick note on my previous response to your first question, although I did say (I think) something along the lines that people are almost never called by their names only, there has to be a “san” or something similar – there ARE situations where what I said is not true. My grandmother calls my mom “Yukari” or “Kari” without the “san” – close friends or parents CAN call people by their first name (or last name or nickname) without the suffix, although this changes from situation to situation. Siblings, however, don’t do this and they’ll refer to their siblings with specific titles like “ani” or “ane” or “imoto” or something similar. All right. I hope this is not more confusing than clarifying. But I’m afraid it might be. As always, I’m open to trying to help if you need anything else.
Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
@libby I had a whole response to this latest post shortly after you posted it and I just came back to find that the whole thing vanished. *headdesks* (And it’s still giving me issues now. Urg.)
First off, thank you again for all the information! It’s super helpful, and really interesting to learn about the different ways the language works. 🙂
Your last paragraph answered a question I’d been going to ask, actually, about whether there are any situations in which there isn’t a title attached to a name.
I had a couple more questions to clarify different things, but now the only one I can remember is about the sibling names. Are those titles attached with hyphens like suffixes or are they sewn onto the name like is the case with “ocaasan”?
I don’t remember if this is one I tried to ask earlier, but how would a full name be handled? Would a title be used, or would the use of the full name be title enough? And would it be attached to the first or the last name, if it is used? How does that interact with the surname-before-prenom structure?
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
@libby Terms of endearment! Those are another thing I asked about when my post didn’t work. Are Japanese terms of endearment standalone like the English “sweetheart”? Or do they attach to names?
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
@libby One more and then I think I’m actually done. XD Are everyday titles (i.e. non-familial titles) attached when speaking in third-person as well as first-person?
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
@r-m-archer I just wanted to let you know that I’ve seen all your messages and I’ll try to get back as soon as I can : )
Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
@libby Cool. Thanks! 🙂
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
@r-m-archer Thank you so much for your patience! Let me see if I can answer your questions.
For sibling names, the titles are just used without any suffixes or other names. So, I would call my older sister not by her Christian name, but by “Ane” which literally means “older sister” – and the same would go for younger sister and brother, and older brother.
Full names… so, if I were introducing myself, I’d just say “Libby Powell” – no titles or suffixes attached. Japanese culture and language are a lot about putting oneself down and lifting one’s recipient up. If someone were introducing me, they would say “Powell, Libby-san”. If I were a teacher, they’d say “Powell-sensei”. Again, it depends on the situation. Full name is enough for when it’s my name and I’m giving it. But if I’m talking about someone else or introducing someone else, I’d switch it like the example above.
Terms of endearment… in a romantic relationship, the term of endearment would be “anata” which literally means “you” but is mostly used as a term of endearment in couples. The same goes for most other relationships, although adding a “chan” (Libby-chan) would be an exception where a suffix is added when someone is talking to me affectionately (like a friend or a relative).
Yes, to answer your last question if I’m understanding what you’re asking. Just to clarify, I’d call an acquaintance “Mary-san” to her face and “Mary-san” if I’m telling my mom about her. Of course, I wouldn’t always refer to a close friend “Kimi-chan” the same way if I was talking to her boss or our teacher – I’d have to switch “chan” to “san”. But you get the picture.
I hope this is helpful. Let me know if there’s more that I can do, or if I misunderstood a question and need to answer some more : )
Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
Ohhhh. That’s going to take an adjustment. XD Interesting! So they work more like “Mom” and “Dad.”
Hm. Cool. What if a letter is addressed to someone by their full name (in the opening of the letter)?
I’m not quite sure if I’m following the terms of endearment. So most ToE are stand-alone, but “chan” is a suffix? Am I understanding that correctly?
Awesome. Thanks! 🙂
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
@r-m-archer Yeahhh, I hope that doesn’t mess with things too much 😐
A letter addressed to someone using their full name would look like this: “Powell, Libby – sama”. Last name, first name, then the extra formal “sama” is usually used as a suffix in letters.
Yes, sorry about that : ) Most terms of endearment are stand-alone. Adding “chan” is the only suffix (generally that I’m aware of) used also to use a name affectionately for a friend or a child who is a female (“coon” for males). It looks like you are understanding that correctly : )
Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
@libby Excellent! Thank you very much. ^-^
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
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