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@devastate-lasting Awesome! Thank you! 🙂
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
So glad I’m not alone on the predestination side of things ; )
@devastate-lasting Thanks for tagging me : )
@r-m-archer So, when it comes to attaching “san” to the end of a name, it depends on the situation whether you attach it to the surname or first name. In intimate settings, I’m called “Libby-san” or more often “Libby-chan” by my elders or friends. However, if you’re in a professional setting, usually I’d go by “Powell-san”. If there’s a teacher or pastor or leader, you’ll often call them “Powell-sensei”. If it’s a very formal situation and you want to extra honor the person you’re talking about, you’ll refer to them as “Powell-sama”. Girls in informal settings are usually referred to as “Libby-chan” and my brother would be “Timothy-coon”. But the suffix changes a lot depending on the situation. I’d be happy to help if you need any other resources or have other questions about Japanese or the culture : ) I find it so neat that you’re working on a novel like this.Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
@libby Interesting. I may need to expand my list of titles. XD How do family-related titles work? Are they stand-alone like “Mom” or “Dad”? I’m mostly trying to figure out how best to handle this culture’s words for “grandmother,” since they have one that refers to a literal grandmother (“lonpaia”) and one that refers to more of a village matriarch (“dachaia”), the latter of which might be better suited to a title along the lines of “sensei”? But I’m not sure if it would be better to change the one to be a suffix and leave the other or if it’s better to keep them consistent either as suffix-titles or as stand-alone titles.
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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@seekjustice Interesting…I have a post of my own that you might want to read. https://www.graceajohnson.com/post/predestination-theories-of-man
Since I’ve got both Calvinists and Arminians in my family, I’ve been exploring both sides (and the Bible, of course) to learn more about the theology. It’s been interesting, to say the least!
@gracie-j Don’t know if you have any interest in this for your study or if you’d rather do it on your own, but last year I kept a set of highlighters by my Bible and marked verses that correlated with the principles of Calvinism (mostly verses on Limited Atonement and predestination, since I ended up focusing on that area more by accident XD). I have a list now of those Limited Atonement/predestination verses, if you’re interested in seeing it.
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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@gracie-j @r-m-archer
I hope you guys don’t mind if I jump in here, but this is my own belief about predestination. There are some Bible verses that seem to indicate God decides from the beginning who lives and who dies in the end days, such as:
1 Peter 2:7-8: “‘The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,’ and ‘A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.’ They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.”
Romans 9:9-13: “For this is what the promise said: ‘About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.’ And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—she was told, ‘The older will serve the younger.’ As it is written, ‘Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'”
Those are just a couple, but I think they give the main idea. I believe, however, that Calvinists take these verses out of context. It might sound, at first read, that God is actually saying he predestines people (such as Esau) to sin/hell, but once we look at the whole Bible we will know it is not God who destines people to sin or hell. It’s Satan who does that, because the Bible repeatedly shows that God wants everyone to be saved (2 Peter 3:9).
I believe these verses are saying that God already knows who will choose salvation and who will not. Salvation is our personal choice and God doesn’t force us either way. Since God is all-knowing, he knows before we are born if we will choose to follow him or if we will choose sin and hell. So he already knows who will choose to be saved in the end, and he wrote those names in the Book of Life at the foundation of the world because he already knew who would choose him. The people whose names he did not write, he already knew in his omniscience that they would not choose him.
I hope that made sense. XD I just wanted to share some of my thoughts. I don’t want to offend anyone who may be Calvinist, I just personally believe that a God of love would truly mean what he says in 2 Peter 3:9 – “The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.”
@joy-caroline What translation is that? That looks like a good translation.
Secondly, though, I want to point out that in 2 Peter his audience is not the world, but the Church. Those who are either already saved or are growing up in the faith or have been drawn to the Church. So that “you” has a more limited context than we often think about.
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
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@r-m-archer I would love to check out your list of verses!
@joy-caroline That’s a great perspective (and probably the one I lean more toward…) Thanks for jumping in!
- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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It’s the English Standard Version, which has been my favorite for a while now. It’s easier to understand than the King James Version, but it’s incredibly close to the original Greek.
True, but I guess we could say that most of the epistles are addressed specifically to churches. There are some, though (Romans, Corinthians and Galatians come to mind) that speak extensively about wordly issues. And Romans is the epistle people mainly reference in discussions of predestination (especially chapters 8 and 9).
I think we have to know the whole Bible before we make assumptions on just a few verses. The Bible always portrays God as someone who doesn’t predestine us to his wrath, which is the whole reason of the cross. Again, no disrespect to Calvinists! I was never taught much about predestination because I grew up in the Adventist church, but once I started studying for myself I wanted to know about it and arrived at that conclusion.
@gracie-j Cool! Let me make sure it’s up-to-date and then I can… hmm… Should I email it, or copy it to a Google doc and post a link here in case anyone else wants to check it out?
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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@gracie-j
Thanks! I enjoy having religious discussions, and sometimes friendly debates!
- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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@joy-caroline So do I! Granted, I haven’t started learning my stuff until now! I’ve got a lot more research to do…
@r-m-archer You can post the link here!@joy-caroline I am looking at the whole Bible. There are verses in support of predestination and God orchestrating His plan through “vessels for dishonor” all the way back in Genesis and proceeding through almost every book of the Bible. There’s an ongoing idea that God gives and He takes. He makes alive and He kills. He opens and He closes. He turns peoples hearts toward Him or against Him according to His plan to fulfill His promises and to display His character. It’s an ongoing theme throughout the Bible. You’re welcome to look at my verse list and see where I’m getting my theology.
@gracie-j Here’s the list. I call it my “Total Sovereignty list,” because some verses overtly talk about predestination, some are examples of God shifting hearts one way or the other, some are examples of writers using that “elect” language, some are examples of that trend I was describing to Joy. But they all tie in with the idea that God is in ultimate control.
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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Very neat! I just took a peek at the list and like the way you went through and organized everything.
I agree that God is in full control, but I don’t believe he makes decisions for us. I think the term is “free will” so that’s what I’ll call it. I once did a study on Exodus 10:20, where God “hardens Pharaoh’s heart.” Pharaoh’s heart was already hardened and he would not have listened; “hardening the heart” in this context means God simply allowed Pharaoh to make the decision he wished. That verse often comes up in the free will argument, so thought I’d mention it.
I’ve noticed that certain verses can sometimes seem to say one thing, but when you look at the context surrounding it (verses occurring before and after), you see it’s not exactly what it seems. To me, the rest of the Bible is inconsistent with some verses supporting predestination. Revelation 3:20 speaks of God knocking at the door of your heart, and only coming in if you hear him and open the door. He neither forces his way in nor locks the door without trying.
But anyway, I’ve always found this an interesting discussion, and I’m always open to different opinions! There’s a pastor I greatly admire (John Piper, the founder of Desiring God) who is a Calvinist. And John G. Paton, a missionary to cannibals, whose book I loved, is also a Calvinist. I’m sure there are many others.
@joy-caroline I should probably give warning before we continue that I can kind of get into “debate mode” and sometimes sound more… aggressive? than I mean to. So if I do, 1) you’re welcome to call me out XD and 2) it’s not my intention and I very much respect your thoughts and appreciate the conversation. 🙂
The thing with that Revelation verse, though, is that it’s established earlier on in the Bible that we can only hear Him if our ears have been opened. We won’t open the door if we don’t hear anyone knocking. And earlier verses establish that God is the one who reveals knowledge and God is the one who veils knowledge/gives people “eyes that cannot see” and “ears that cannot hear.” (There are a couple of those verses in there on the list; I don’t remember which verses they are. References are not my strong suit. XD) So no, He doesn’t force His way in or lock the door. But He does open or close eyes and ears, resulting in our ability or inability to open the door. This I think is where we get into the whole two-levels-of-reality thing. Because it’s sort of like the door exists in the character’s world, but the ears have already been determined in the author’s pre-writing. The character has agency to open the door or not, but ultimately the author is the one who holds control to write that event or not. That duality isn’t always an easy concept to understand, but I think it’s the biblical thing.
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
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