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@seekjustice You’re probably not up anymore, but I just wanted to say… “Whoops!” 😛 Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply you’d said anything I disagreed with in your last post. I’m pretty sure we agree on the topic. (I said “inspired” by your post, not “incited” by the post! 😉 😛 )
Anyway, whenever you get this, I hope you’re reassured that there was absolutely nothing wrong with your post, and I very much enjoyed reading it.
"Sylvester - Sylvester!"
I didn’t really think I had done anything 🙂
However, I am very curious to know what you wanted to talk about.
INFP Queen of the Kingdom commander of an army of origami cranes and a sabre from Babylon.
@seekjustice Basically, I was going to ask, How much have you read of George MacDonald? I know you’ve read The Princess and the Goblins. 😉
"Sylvester - Sylvester!"
I’ve read The Princess and the Goblins, The Princess and Curdie and The Light Princess, I know I read another book many years ago but I forget what it was. I’ve never been able to find any of his other ones.
INFP Queen of the Kingdom commander of an army of origami cranes and a sabre from Babylon.
@seekjustice Haha, so that’s why you listed him as a fantasy/allegory author. I’ve read about ten or twelve of his romance novels. 😛
But anyway, my mom had read them as a teenager, so when I ran out of books in the library, and I was about fifteen or sixteen, she said I was old enough to read them. There wasn’t much “mush” in them, as they were more mystery and adventure based romances.
My mom didn’t remember them very well, just recalling that he was a Christian author…or so he appeared. As I started reading them I realized there was something pretty iffy about his theology. I dropped it, since I didn’t care to look into it at the time, but your post reminded me of him, and since you listed him as an allegory writer, when I only knew him as a romance/fantasy author (the romances all contain elements of true-to-life fantasy, such as demons and witchcraft, always portrayed on the bad side and as evil, so I don’t think that’s a problem, except it really freaked me out…) so I looked him up.
Anyway, it looks to me like he believed Jesus didn’t save us, but was only an “example” and that everyone will go to heaven eventually. (I’m not sure, but it sounds a little like purgatory, though he didn’t think of himself as a Catholic…) So basically, yeah. My younger impressions of him were correct, his theology seems a slight bit more than “iffy”.
So, there’s a run-down of what I was thinking around the time I read your post and afterward. What do you think? 😉
"Sylvester - Sylvester!"
Well, I know he was a minister of some kind but other than that I don’t really know anything about him, except that C S. Lewis liked him and his writing a lot. There was one book of his that I decided to steer clear of because of the fact that it dealt with Adam’s supposed first wife. However, since the books of his I’ve read don’t really deal with theology and I’d never noticed. I did wonder if I was right putting him in the allegory section because he didn’t write allegory in the same way as, say Lewis and Bunyan did.
I also didn’t know he wrote romance 😛
Here’s an interesting question. I was just doing my quiet time and I’ve been reading through Corinthians and today I got to 1 Corinthians 11. I agree with what it says about man being the head of women and etc. As I’m sure you do to. What do you personally believe about the rest of the section, where it speaks about headcoverings and long hair. I’m interested in your response because the general feeling of the Baptist Church is to ignore gender things that we don’t want to tackle, but I’m sure you or your parents have solid views on how much of this passage is cultural and how much was meant for us as well.
INFP Queen of the Kingdom commander of an army of origami cranes and a sabre from Babylon.
@seekjustice Ooh, not afraid of controversial subjects, are we? 😛
So, I don’t believe commandments change with cultures. I think you’re remembering that I said we understand some parts of the Bible in a different way because of the Middle Eastern background, but what I meant was that we understand some of the things in the Bible which are stated as “obvious” but are not as obvious in a Western culture.
For example, the parable where Jesus says if a guy knocks on your door at midnight and says a guest just arrived at his house and he doesn’t have any food, so won’t you let him borrow some. Well, in a Western culture, why in the world would a guest show up at someone’s house at midnight without notice, so that they don’t have any food and have to go to a neighbor’s house to find some? In a Western culture you plan your visit weeks in advance, and the host will have plenty of food already prepared and ready, while in an Eastern culture, the “just show up” idea is prevalent. So, basically, that’s what I was talking about when I mentioned cultural differences. Does that make sense?
I don’t think God’s commands change depending on what culture you live in, (except where it’s specifically stated in the Bible, like in Romans 14.) God doesn’t change, so why should His commandments change? I do understand some of the commandments in the Old Testament aren’t applicable in the literal sense, but I think those are the commandments that Jesus specifically fulfilled in the New Testament, and that’s a whole other discussion. 😛
Now, since this post is really long already I’m going to post it now and answer your head covering question in a second post. 😉
"Sylvester - Sylvester!"
@seekjustice Oh, to clarify, in the last post I said I don’t think God’s commandments change depending on the culture you live in. I do, however, know that they are often understood differently depending on the culture. I also believe that, as it says in Romans 14, what is a sin for some may not be a sin for others since even with a literal interpretation, if we come from many different backgrounds we may understand the Bible differently. And we all have to pray and study for ourselves to see what God wants us personally to do.
*sighs* Wow, this is a conversation which would be much easier to have live, rather than online. I’m supposed to be a writer, but words just don’t cut it in some situations. 😛 😛
"Sylvester - Sylvester!"
I like discussing controversial topics. 🙂 Especially the ones people skirt around for fear of offending someone. 😛
Yep, I understand what you’re talking about. I think a lot of Western culture has lost the original meanings of many parts of both the New and Old testaments just because we have such a limited understanding of Eastern culture.
Also, I presume that these verses would be the basis for women such as the Amish wearing kapps.
INFP Queen of the Kingdom commander of an army of origami cranes and a sabre from Babylon.
…so let’s see if I can do a really short post about the headcovering thing.
Quick (hopefully) answer is: We believe the headcovering referenced there is a literal headcovering, not the hair, and that the hair is used as a symbol, but an additional headcovering is what is expected by the chapter. From the context, we think that the headcovering is only required by women who are worshiping in a Church setting, and married women particularly, since it is supposed to be worn in submission to the husband.
I personally usually wear a head covering to church, even though I am not married, just so I can be used to the idea of wearing one when I do get married. (I didn’t wear one this morning, actually. 😉 ) My sisters do not wear them, but my mom does, of course. 😉 I don’t think anyone else in our church wears headcoverings, but we have several friends with varying opinions on the subject. How about you?
Haha, I know what you mean about pastors avoiding controversial issues! 😛 The poor guys, though, I mean, what else can they do sometimes?
"Sylvester - Sylvester!"
I think a lot of Western culture has lost the original meanings of many parts of both the New and Old testaments just because we have such a limited understanding of Eastern culture.
I completely agree!! Actually, we’ve had that problem a few times with some sermons where we just wanted to yell at the pastor, “we know you’re trying here, but…you have no idea what you’re talking about!” 😛 Sometimes the whole point of the sermon was wound up in a cultural misunderstanding and we just had to seal our lips and keep in our seats, then burst out laughing around the dinner table afterward. 😉
"Sylvester - Sylvester!"
Like I said, until I started reading the Bible for myself (rather than someone reading the Bible to me) I’d never heard the idea of wearing a headcovering. Since I was five I’ve attended a Baptist church and the issue was never addressed. In fact, today was really the first time I ever thought about it in depth. I personally don’t feel convicted that I should wear one, however if I was to change church for whatever reason and attend a church where it was seen as the norm, and where possibly I could upset people by not doing so, I would take it up, since I feel my personal convictions (and the Bible) don’t say that it would be a sin to do it even if you didn’t feel it necessarily (unlike what Paul makes very clear speaking of the Lord’s supper in the next verses. He says clearly that in no way shape or form should you have Communion in a wrong attitude and that it will gp badly for you if you do).
Does that make sense? I would wear a covering out of a more cultural sense and a desire not to let a brother or sister stumble, but personally I don’t feel it necessary, though I would have to do more thinking and praying on the subject first.
INFP Queen of the Kingdom commander of an army of origami cranes and a sabre from Babylon.
I remember that sort of thing happening to me lately but I can’t remember why now. There was some reason I wanted to jump up and keep correcting the preacher 🙂
INFP Queen of the Kingdom commander of an army of origami cranes and a sabre from Babylon.
@seekjustice Yes, that makes sense. 🙂 Here’s a funny story with a similar sort of idea:
I have an unmarried friend who wears headcoverings constantly, not just in church. We were talking about it one day, and how the Bible says a woman should wear a head covering to show that she is in submission to her husband, and we told her how we believe the context is corporate worship (church) so that’s why we don’t wear headcoverings all the time.
She explained her beliefs somewhat like this, “I wouldn’t wear it if my husband didn’t want me to because, well, wouldn’t that be like missing the whole point? 😛 So I wear it now, that way whoever I marry will already be used to seeing me with one and will be less likely to want me to take it off once I’m married.”
Well, that’s one way to put it, huh? 😛
So…if you’ve never heard anyone discuss head coverings, do you not have any friends who wear head coverings? We have a lot of friends who wear them and have been to many churches where the majority of the women wore head coverings.
"Sylvester - Sylvester!"
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