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@seekjustice Very true. Because we are taught that life was horrible for women back in those days, it obviously must have been. But it was really just women were treated differently in different parts of the countries or world, like they are now. I think people were happier back then as a general rule, too, more than they are now, because back then they were raised with different expectations of life. There have always been radicals in any time period, though.
Ah, I just realized I referenced Abigail Adams and you had absolutely no idea who I was talking about. 😛 She’s the wife of our second president and founding father, John Adams. (You really, really need to listen to/watch 1776! 😉 )
Speaking of which, what have you been listening to today?
"Sylvester - Sylvester!"
Hey. 🙂 I’m answering your questions here. I may have missed out some things because they did not cross my mind at the moment but here goes:
When did you feel like the story had really begun?
The prologue. It was necessary in order to understand what was going on and it informs readers of the first book that Jean is not Chessy’s birth father so that it does not come out of left field in the first chapter.Who was your favourite character?
Zac. Because Sydney Carton.Least favourite character?
Theresa, naturally. Sean Darcy comes at a close second.Favourite scene?
The last. Because I am a masochist.Were there any things I could have done better?
The plot for this has followed Dickens’ very strictly. It felt like everything was just transposed to a more modern setting (even smaller things like the people licking wine off the street, the child getting hit and dying etc.) so it got predictable and lost me somewhat midway. If SFI is a story with Les Mis references, WIIE goes beyond that and mirrors ATOTC way more. If that is what you’re going for, that is fine but that means there is a distinctive difference in the retelling styles of SFI and WIIE which are supposed to be in the same series.That’s why I wished that there would have been more exciting twists like having the characters’ roles be more mixed up as they were in SFI and having Zac be the one that ends up rescued. That would have been more original (with the added benefit that Zac would be saved) but I guess there’s nothing that can be done for that. 😛
Anything that didn’t make sense?
Why Jean and Chessy did not recognise Sean Darcy at the first trial.Also sorry if I missed something but in ATOTC, Darnay’s father was the one that set him up for the first trial and it is the same here with Justice and his father right? So when Justice said he reconciled with his family, they didn’t actually?
How did you feel about the love triangle?
I know that’s what happened in the original novel but I found it weird how Zac fell in love with Chessy so quickly. Maybe it’s because he does not seem to be as much of a misanthrope compared to Carton so it felt as though he could have found other people to connect with before. It was like he was this love-starved puppy that fell for the first person he felt was nice to him. And Justice too. He clearly had no interest in Chessy during the first book and he’s still coping with getting over all the deaths so I found it strange that he decided he was in love with her in this book. I guess these two cousins are really alike, viewing the same girl as a source of comfort and deciding that this is love. 😛I agree with Rochellaine though with how Chessy should have given more consideration to Zac since he’s the one she has been thinking about. It is not the same as in ATOTC where Lucie and Darnay were clear of their feelings for each other and were going to be wed. Here there’s even less holding Chessy back from going for Zac instead. Maybe showing more of the love Chessy has for Justice would help.
What did you think about my portrayal of God and Christianity. What I’m trying to say here is: Did you think it was too heavy? Too subtle? Would you rather see God mentioned more often or not? Or did you like it the way it was?
I am not the best person to judge for this since I don’t think I can handle this question. I usually steer clear of any overt references in my own writing. It does not help that I base my stories on historically very pagan, godless and unreached societies, which means that I can’t organically insert Christianity as we know it into my settings.Now I am not sure exactly what your goal is with this story. If you are writing for a Christian market and trying to inspire Christian readers towards a better Christian life, I would say that what you have is great.
But if you are writing to try to reach out to a secular audience (especially one that is hostile at that), they might run away at the very first mention of a bible verse especially with regards to SFI. Revolution, standing up for rights etc. are very celebrated in the secular world because they are seen as the way human civilization has apparently advanced and achieved social justice. Non-believers may not take God too well as an answer and may not like Justice accepting that his rebellion was folly or Zac becoming a better man only after coming to faith. If you are prepared for that, good for you 🙂 Your portrayal is fine as it is.
My suggestion is, if you have any non-Christian friends you can trust to give an honest opinion, to let them read your story to see how it will go for a secular audience. They will be a much more accurate judge as to whether it is too heavy or not.
Was there anything you would have liked to have seen, but didn’t? (E.G. More window scenes? :P)
I am not sure how good of an idea this is story-wise but I would like to see some expansion on the other characters that are minor characters or villains. More of Justice’s mother and what is it like for Chessy to work for her. More of Justice’s father to better understand the relationship he has with his family. More of Theresa’s past even (that is if you wish to differ from Dickens and humanise her more to highlight how her desire for vengeance corrupted her).A large part of the plot has to do with the recovery of Dr Manly as well so I would have liked to see more of his relationship with other people like Chessy and Jean (who as Rochellaine pointed out is rather left out and honestly unnecessary in this book but has to be included for continuity’s sake).
I am a sucker for cute childhood flashbacks too so backstory such as what you wrote in your authorfic would give more insight into Justice and Zac’s relationship.
I think most of my suggestions here are more fitting for fan/authorfics since they don’t really contribute to the larger story. 😛
In the next book, who would you like to see as the second narrator: a). Justice (again), b) Quillon (Quillon is my favourite character and going to be important in the next book) c) Neva Rose (also going to be important in the next book) d) someone else?
I have no idea what you have planned for your next book so I’ll just leave this to your authorial judgment 😛Yes, exactly right. And while I won’t say things were perfect for women back then, they aren’t perfect now, and they’ve never been perfect. Every era has its failings, that doesn’t make one period better or worse, in my opinion.
I’ve heard of Abigail Adams because you’ve talked about her before. 😀 and I have listened to some of 1776.
Oh, well, you’d be proud of me. I’ve watched–and by that I mean actually sat down with a DVD and watched, rather than looked at clips on YouTube–The Fiddler on the Roof and Oliver and I’m just about to go and confer with my sister as to which out of Camelot, South Pacific, The King and I, Carousel, Oklahoma and whatever those other ones are, that we should watch next.
But I’ve been listening to the Les Mis Dream Cast on repeat today.
INFP Queen of the Kingdom commander of an army of origami cranes and a sabre from Babylon.
@seekjustice Oh, wowly-wow!! 😛 I am impressed. What did you think of Fiddler on the Roof? My family sees the theme in that to be “when you rebel against traditions simply because you feel like it, rather than for a good reason, society crumbles.” or something like that. I’m bad at being concise, so that might not be a fully correct statement, but it’s the gist of it. Did you see that in it, or something else? What was your favorite song/scene?
I’ve actually never seen Oliver!… :0
I don’t like The King and I (but I haven’t seen it, only synopsis and clips,) I love Oklahoma! but am not sure whether you would like it or not. Probably not. I’m sure you’d like Carousel better than Liliom, as the characters are much more interesting and likable in the former. I haven’t seen Camelot or South Pacific. Are you surprised? Or perhaps shocked? 😛
"Sylvester - Sylvester!"
@valtmy Is it okay if I answer a few of your comments? I’ve read the second draft of her book, and a few things have changed…
For one, Chessy is noted to be adopted from the first, so it is no longer a surprise in the second book. That helps for continuity. 😀
Oh yes, about the trial! I agree with you. Why didn’t Jean and Quillon just tell everyone who Sean Darcy was, and then without the witness, Justice would have been freed, right??
I don’t really care how fast people fall in love, because it’s different for different people, and I’ve heard lots of real life stories about it being two weeks or ten years, and marriages lasting equally long. 😛 As for Justice, well, there were several months in between the first and second books where Chessy and Justice spent a lot of time together, not to mention she took care of him a lot while he was ill, and that would make him notice her more anyway. So I wasn’t really surprised by his drastic change of character in the second book. He’s more broken now, and especially without Jonas he needs someone to lean on, and it turns out to be Chessy.  I don’t know, that’s just how I feel.
( @jenwriter17 Did you ever think I’d be defending Justice? 😛 )
And about the flashback thing, I agree it would be really cute to hear some more stories about Justice and Zac when they were kids. I don’t like the sound of flashbacks in this book much, but I think it would be cool if sometime during one of their arguments they bring up some more things that happened when they were kids, which I think they did once or twice already. Either way, though, the relationship between them is great, so I don’t care much if she does anything to it.
"Sylvester - Sylvester!"
I liked The Fiddler on the Roof, but I felt it missed a lot of potential. I honestly didn’t like Tevye that much and I wished the story revolved more around the daughters, I especially wish they’d been more closure to Chava and the girl who married the Bolshevik, who’s name I forget. I felt it just….stopped.
I actually felt the message was the opposite. Sometimes traditions are either wrong, sometimes they’re just silly and that we shouldn’t place so much emphasis on tradition. Since, each of the girls breaks tradition in a different way. That was just the way I interpreted it though. I do like the scene where the Jews dance with the Russians though, that scene is pretty cool. And I liked Perchik’s proposal as well 😀 and the scene with Motel’s new sewing machine.
Haven’t you seen Camelot? Didn’t you suggest it to me ages ago?
INFP Queen of the Kingdom commander of an army of origami cranes and a sabre from Babylon.
@seekjustice Tevye isn’t perfect, but he’s funny, and his relationship with God is cool, when you listen to his prayers.
I think there wasn’t meant to be much closure. Tevye did say “and God be with you” in the end, but the end of the film seems to be a dreary hope that one day things may be better, rather than the bright day of a new beginning.
Okay, so we see the theme very differently. We analyze it like this: The first daughter, Tzeitl, (however you spell it, 😛 ) broke tradition by falling in love outside of the matchmaker’s plans, but she was obedient to her father in that she waited for her father’s permission before marrying him. Still, she broke tradition in a small way. We can look at it and say, “well, that was a bad tradition” but look at Golde and Tevye’s marriage. It was arranged, but they love each other very much. It’s the stiffness of the times that keeps them from acknowledging it as much as people do nowadays. This is in line with what we were talking about earlier.
Next, the second daughter broke tradition in a larger way by finding her own husband and telling her father she wasn’t going to wait for his permission, but would marry without it. She hoped for his blessing, but whether he gave it or not, she would get married. This is obviously wrong, as the daughter was quite disrespectful of her father. If she had listened to her father, she would not be “far from the home she loves” slaving to make a living and waiting for her husband while he sits in some Siberian prison. That is not a happy life, though it can be okay if they are strong enough to love each other through it all. She may have not had the ideal husband if she stayed within the traditions, but she still doesn’t have the ideal husband in this situation.
Third, we have Chava, who throws away all boundaries and marries a Gentile, which is clearly against the commandments of God. This seems to imply she is not following God anymore, and simply goes with her feelings. While she found a husband who seems nice and loving, it doesn’t matter if they have the “perfect” life on earth, if they are not following the Scriptures. I know since they are Jews and not Christians this doesn’t work out the same in the end, because Jews can’t go to heaven unless they become Christians anyway, but the idea can easily be translated to believers and “unequal yoking.”
Lastly, we saw the breaking of tradition progressing as the daughters, one by one, broke tradition more and more, finally throwing it away completely. The film ends with the Jews being kicked out of Russia, showing what the breaking of traditions does to society. Radicalism may be good in some instances if it is for the right reasons, but when it is purely for selfish reasons, only bad can come of it. The daughters tried to make their lives better by breaking tradition, and they didn’t break tradition because of careful study of why the traditions were there and what would happen if they broke them, and whether it would be good or bad.
The daughters’ actions had no direct impact on the Jews departure, of course. 😛 It’s a symbol of the changing society which causes persecution and division among people who once lived peacefully together.
Sooo…that’s where we got the theme from. Does it make any more sense now? I’m sure you still think it was the opposite theme, and that could have been the filmmakers’ intent, but we prefer to see this theme mostly because the blatant rebellion against parents is not something we want to emulate.
No, I haven’t seen Camelot. I’ve listened to most of the songs, and seen a few clips on YouTube, but that’s all. I recommended it to you because you mentioned liking the King Arthur stories, not because I had seen it. 😉 I just like the music.
"Sylvester - Sylvester!"
Thanks for filling out the questions!
I added Chessy being adopted into the first book because I was tired of the whole “oh, wait, you’re adopted” sort of thing and I could think of no good reason why Jean wouldn’t tell her.
And yes, I wrote this as Christian fiction for a predominantly Christian audience.
What Rochellaine said regarding Justice is right. She’s been looking after him, not only physically but also mentally and emotionally ever since the end of the last book, I think most people would have developed very deep feelings for someone who had cared for them so devotedly over such a long period of time.
And I’d definitely noticed the difference between the two books. That’s mainly because the plot of ATOTC is much more condensed than the plot of Les Mis is. Which meant I had to delete a lot from the from the Les Mis inspired plot in order to fit it all in.
Thanks for all your other suggestions though! I’ll definitely keep them in consideration.
INFP Queen of the Kingdom commander of an army of origami cranes and a sabre from Babylon.
I guess its easy for me to see the Jewish traditions as silly because I’m not Jewish and I don’t think much even of Christian traditions, so I’m not really one for doing things just cause of the way things are.
Fyedka, though, is clearly labelled as an Eastern Orthodox Christian, so while Chava is definitely marrying outside her faith, and while they would be “unequally yoked”, I think that would refer more to Fyedka (I’m only assuming that he is Christian in more than name, though that isn’t addressed. And I do know there are lot of differences between Eastern Orthodox and Protestants).
And I have trouble believing a Bolshevik and a Jew would fall in love. They’re very, very different ideologies. Still, I did like Perchik.
INFP Queen of the Kingdom commander of an army of origami cranes and a sabre from Babylon.
@seekjustice Well, I’ve read too many books where authors dismiss the traditions of other cultures because they sound silly to them in the culture where they were raised. 😛 I’ve got a bit of experience in understanding that someone else’s culture could be different because my mom and dad came from such different cultures. (You know my dad’s Middle Eastern, but my mom was born and raised as a contemporary American.) So we act completely differently depending on whose family we are visiting. 😉
One of the things my parents talk about in their ministry is how to blend cultures, since they have so much experience with that, and they talk about how when they found a clash they took both sides and checked them with the Bible, then went with what was more clearly portrayed in the Bible, and if they couldn’t find it in the Bible they would compromise. So no, you’re right. We shouldn’t do things just because “that’s the way they’re done.” However, we shouldn’t trash traditions just because we feel like doing something else, either. I think we should go back to the root of the tradition and find out why it was started, then determine whether we actually want to get rid of it.
Hey, I’m finally reading the third part of your second draft of your first book! And while I was writing that I just realized how cool it sounded. 😛
"Sylvester - Sylvester!"
My parents aren’t from different cultures, but they’re definitely from different subcultures. And they definitely have a lot of different views of things. 😛
Very true. What I don’t like though, is when traditions become more important than the Bible. The preacher at our church on Sunday actually mentioned this, particularly in regards to the Catholic Church, when the pope’s decrees and traditions became more important than what clearly is stated in the Bible. I guess the Pharisees were guilty of that too, and Jesus set them right on a lot of points.
And now we shall come to a compromise. Traditions can be good, they can be used to create laws and rules and keep order.
But traditions are also created by humans and thus corrupted, and people can often value traditions above the laws of God.
Thus, like all things, they must be weighed against the Bible. 😀 and then taken from there, in whichever way seems best. 😛
INFP Queen of the Kingdom commander of an army of origami cranes and a sabre from Babylon.
@seekjustice Yes, my parents use that in their marriage counseling. They say that everyone comes from different subcultures, or mini, family-cultures. It’s easier to notice when you come from drastically different backgrounds, but every family has different ways of doing things, and it’s important to talk it all out before you get in a fight because of assumptions. 😛 My parents still have some different views on different things, and I definitely have seen how much they have to talk things through to figure out the differences. And I guess that’s important in any relationship, be it between friends, relatives, or a couple. (or enemies? I guess? 😛 )
Haha, yes, I think we can agree on that.
I am a very traditional person. 😉 You know how they ask you for a one-sentence description of yourself when you apply to join the KP forums? The beginning of mine was “I am a classic girl who adores cliche and thrives on stereotypes, but in the real world I…”
So basically, all the old stuff that everyone has forgotten or thinks is cheesy, old-fashioned, cliche, or they just want to get rid of, that’s the stuff I like. Haha! 🙂
"Sylvester - Sylvester!"
That’s so true! We’re all very different. For example, on the weekend we were visiting with a family who…have a much higher income (I would say are of a higher societal class, but that would make me sound like Jane Austen). And the differences were quite astounding, even though my family would hardly be classed as “poor”. The similarities were quite astounding though as well.
Well, by no means would I describe myself as modern. Not at all. But I’m not really one for traditions…I love the past and don’t really like the present…so I don’t really know if that makes sense. But I’m paradoxical. (If I described myself in three words it would be “A Walking Paradox”)
INFP Queen of the Kingdom commander of an army of origami cranes and a sabre from Babylon.
@seekjustice It is amazing how different and yet how similar other families can be to ours at the same time. It does seem like a sort of paradox. 😀
Haha, real people tend to be harder to describe than the characters in books; no matter how complex the characters are, human beings have something that only God can give them, and mere imitations can’t come up to par.
I’m going to sign out now. I’ll be reading your document for a little bit longer, but I don’t think I’ll finish it tonight.
Bye!
"Sylvester - Sylvester!"
Yep, I wholeheartedly agree. Only God can give people true life. Our characters can never come close to that!
Goodnight…good morning. 😀 Whatever it is.
INFP Queen of the Kingdom commander of an army of origami cranes and a sabre from Babylon.
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