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I agree, reading books has helped me so much!
I’m not sure if I know a lot about plot structure. I just try not to be cliche, have good character arcs, and attempt to make an outline. Emphasis on the word attempt, lol.
I know that there’s seven main ways to plot, like “save the cat”, “the hero’s journey”, the “three act”, and there’s multiple others as well. To be honest, the information I have is very miniscule.
Lukas&Livia
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Sef&Chase
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LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333@savannah_grace2009
Are you familiar with freytag’s pyramid?
I find it helpful to keep in mind. I can explain anything on here in more detail if you want.
🏰 Fantasy Writer
✨ Magic System Creator
🎭 Character RPer
📚 Appreciator of BooksOkay, here’s my advice. Plotting works for some people, but for the rest it doesn’t. If outlining kills your creative process, then don’t worry about doing it. I think it’s a lot of just experimenting and finding out what works for you. For me, I’m more of a pantser, but I usually know a few events that are going to happen in the story, but mostly because they just come to me.
If you’re having trouble deciding what will happen next, maybe try opening a new document and just writing whatever you feel about the story. You’re not writing the actual thing, you’re basically just ranting into a different doc. Then try asking questions and answering them. That seems to work for me so far, but lol I’m nothing close to an expert, so don’t just take my word for it.
There is always light behind the clouds.
- Little Women, Louisa May Alcott@savannah_grace2009
This is the way I think about plotting (mind you, I’m not that good at it lol!):
Think of the plot as something that can be repeatedly divided. On the highest level we have the entire story. That can be split up into exposition, rising action, climax, falling action, and resolution. At that point, you can figure out what parts of your story correspond to those points. I recommend at least knowing what your climax and exposition will be. Once you’ve done that, you can keep splitting the rising action section into smaller sections of more specific events until your outline is down to the level of detail you want. (Falling action and resolution make up a small portion of a story, so it isn’t too important to outline them.)🏰 Fantasy Writer
✨ Magic System Creator
🎭 Character RPer
📚 Appreciator of BooksHey uhhhh I saw this forum and idk where else to post this question yall XD
I’m currently trying to outline and could use some help!
I’m trying to figure out November’s Debate scene for Act I
Basically the Debate scene is when the character is debating or refusing the Call To Adventure (or change of pace to their normal world/Catalyst) at first.
In this book, November’s Catalyst is his father has approached him and, basically, has asked him to Spy on the royal family and do errands for him that…don’t seem very kosher. November, desperate to please him but also loyal to Ara and her family is obviously conflicted.
That being said…idk what to make his debate scenes…
What would be his reason for saying yes to his father, besides his eagerness to please him? I’m thinking he becomes deceived and believes it’ll Help Ara and her family somehow and he obviously doesn’t think his father is doing anything wrong (plus his father is a liar so he feeds him some crap about it being for their own sake or whatever XD)
ANYWAY any ideas?
#IfMarcelDiesIRiot
#ProtectMarcel
#ProtectSeb@godlyfantasy12 hmmmm quite the predicament.
I do have a question: Does November genuinly believe that his father really is a good person?
Bc if so, I think him thinking that it will help the family and everything he does for his father is innocent is a great way to handle the situation. Plus, it can help show how later (like in later books or even that same book) November isn’t so naive, thus showing another piece of his character growth.
Oooorrr
November could be bullied into doing it, given his father’s personality/abusive attitude.
He could see it as a way to prove himself to his father that he can do things right and perhaps (especially if he really does think he’s helping them) prove to himself (or even trying to prove it to Ara) that he’s more than just a clumsy kid…he can save the kingdom, for gosh’s sakes!!
But yeah, I do like the idea of him possibly thinking that what he’s doing is right.
If you could/are willing to give me more info, I may be able to think up some other ideas :3
author_katelyn_douglas on Instagram
Freedom's Fire set to release Spring/Summer 2024@freed_and_redeemed oh yea at this point he totally thinks his father is a good person.
My poor baby….I love him so much and he’s just in this toxic community and with an abusive/toxic father and he doesn’t even realize it…
#IfMarcelDiesIRiot
#ProtectMarcel
#ProtectSebDoes he know what he will be doing is spying? Or does he think he’s supposed to watch out for Ara to keep her safe or something?
In other words, if he thinks the information being passed to his father will be for Ara’s benefit, why? Does he think that Ara could be unknowingly endangering herself, and that the King wants his father to have No ember report anything? Does he think this is simply him looking after her, he just feels like it would be wrong to “tattle” so to speak on Ara? Especially if he can’t quite see how these things could be harmful for her?
First Grand Historian of Arreth and the Lesser Realms (aka Kitty)
@koshka ooh good questions…
So im not entirely sure yet how Riven asks November…I gotta kinda figure it out…but I like that idea…
Basically Riven is kinda stirring up strife in A’Grend agains the royal family, (it’s been brewing some and some of that’s because of Riven and they don’t know that)
It kinda represents how in church you have toxic people who do that and then get ppl stirred up against the ministry and such and that’s a way for the enemy to get in.
Basically that ends up being how Eder (Big bad) gets into A’Grend. The people’s own “Shadows” and such let him in.
Poor November doesn’t know his dad is doing this, and he doesn’t mean to, he just gets caught up in it, and tries to please his dad and listens to the wrong voices, like some in the church do, and ends up getting Hurt and accidentally hurting Ara and her family in the process.
I like that idea though, of Riven telling him it’s watching out for Ara and the royal family or something like that, like he’s trying to protect them. Maybe like he’s heard rumors or something but doesn’t want to “Scare the royal family” so November has to keep it secret, and it also makes him feel special to do that…
which is even sadder when he finds out it was all a lie…
#IfMarcelDiesIRiot
#ProtectMarcel
#ProtectSeb@godlyfantasy12 Oh wow, that’s a pretty big thing to portray. And has gotten my brain on a rabbit trail with Moses and his siblings. Some people don’t realize that when they are critical of God’s minister they are undermining of God’s authority, just like Mirriam and Aaron over Moses’s non-Hebrew wife. As Mirriam learned, that’s not a good place to be.
Anyway, that makes sense with November. He wouldn’t outright hurt Ara, even if his Father asked him, and Riven knows that. Although, your going to break your reader’s hearts when you get to the betrayal. Poor baby.
First Grand Historian of Arreth and the Lesser Realms (aka Kitty)
so…I kinda have another problem…I mentioned this before but still struggling…
It relates to Act 2…I am just really struggling with scenes here yall! Idk what to do…I’m trying to outline because If I don’t, my draft is going to end up like all my past ones, unfinished, but just like all the past ones, I can’t think of what to do for the middle of the book, (or the first middle half anyway)
So, I have these things I wrote down once called Magic Cookies. I heard about this term once, and basically its things that make you excited about the book or WIP. things you’re excited to include, things you like to read, etc.
I wrote them down and I want to write them and they give me vague ideas but I can’t really think of scenes for them exactly?? Like…not really? Just vague ideas…
I’m just struggling with coming up with stuff for the bulk…Like what happened after Ara and November’s Debate up until the third act. WHAT HAPPENS?! I DON’T KNOW! I have vague scene ideas and a couple scene ideas but not near enough…
#IfMarcelDiesIRiot
#ProtectMarcel
#ProtectSebI don’t know exactly how to help, but I’ll try. Do you want scene ideas, or a workable method to create scenes, or something else?
Here’s a list of scenes I would kinda like to see someday. Discard if not helpful or unfitting.
- Aravember chasing a butterfly.
- Ara with a splinter getting helped by November (or some other swap of the clumsiness, where it’s Nova tending to Ara).
- Coming up with a crazy poem together/rigamarol.
- Walking home under the stars.
- November struggling at weapons practice (or some such training).
First Grand Historian of Arreth and the Lesser Realms (aka Kitty)
Are you struggling with the plotting itself? or missing scenes?
If you have a vague idea for a scene, you have the base for that scene. How would you describe the event? What emotions are the characters going through? Where is the setting? How did the characters get there? Who all is there? Which ideas could happen first? Are some of these ideas connected, and could be run together into a larger scene?
Would you like someone to ramble about everything to so you can verbally work through stuff? My sister and I do that when we’re working together, and it is quite helpful. Sometimes things won’t come out in words on paper, when they will verbally.
First Grand Historian of Arreth and the Lesser Realms (aka Kitty)
@godlyfantasy12 Wow…that’s such a hard but important thing to show in your writing
idk what to say right now…maybe an idea will come to me eventually XD
author_katelyn_douglas on Instagram
Freedom's Fire set to release Spring/Summer 2024Oh wow, you’re using the Save the Cat method. I’ve never used that outline XD
I can also volunteer with @koshka as a rambler if you need one.
Oh oh oh, maybe you need more setting-type things to spur on some scenes. I don’t know much about A’Grend, but it would be great if the setting, and the objects or people who naturally live in it, could tangle with the characters’ feelings. That’s what inspires me – like when I mentioned the demon thing in my story.
I know this is really far off as an example… I’m changing a lot of stuff here XD Say November lived in a kingdom full of people who could control fire, but he discovers he has hydrokinesis instead. I’m saying this because November is a conforming person, who isn’t exactly fiery, and instead reacts in a way some people would describe as weak. (Not saying he can’t have fire powers, because it’s a funny twist!) In that setting, there would be so many mental-to-physical scenes, where the elements are reflecting the conflict between the characters. And November has to learn that his “weak” feelings – like water, which represents emotion – are still powerful.
It’s just cool to represent mental things with physical things 😜 And that’s where I get a TON of inspo.
So… Ramble Alert! Random ideas! November has to go to a “fancy people meeting” with the actual villains and tries to fit in without realizing their villainy (could have some interesting interactions with people), could meet a foil young man of sorts who becomes a rival (like the son Riven wants), he competes with this other elite/elites to spy on the royal family while, of course, subconsciously thinking the elites are competing for Ara’s friendship (and they can affect Ara too somehow!), suddenly Riven is setting up the November/Ara romance to get more information, everyone tries to influence Ara but November is the only one who truly cares for her so he gets the opening, then WHAM he accidentally betrays her!
Do you want to redirect me? I can be an idea torpedo and go in whatever direction you want 🤣
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