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I just made a possible break through in a Cosmere theory people have been trying to crack for a long time. I’m not sure how much you know about the topic, so I won’t say much unless you want to here it. None of it is really spoilers, but it’s info you might not know yet, although most of it isn’t mentioned in any book. I won’t say anything that is at all a spoiler, but if you don’t want to here any of it, stop here.
Brandon Sanderson confirmed that the Shards of Adonalsium fit into four groups of four that are related to some objects in the Cosmere. (I won’t say what the groups are or what the objects are.) Each of the Shards is also associated with a number.
People have been trying to sort them for a while, and I have stumbled upon a categorization that seems to work pretty well, related to the numbers.
If you want to hear about it, I will tell, but you should probably tell me how much you already know and which shards you are familiar with.
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📚 Appreciator of BooksInteresting. I actually didn’t know much about this, but I have been pondering on the nature and symmetry of the shards for a while. When I first learned about them, I was honestly a little disappointed, because they seemed random to me. When you have an elemental system, you usually want a theme, and it didn’t look like there was one here. You had change and unchange (ruin and preservation), but then to go with those you have hatred, plants, law, and a bunch of others? I saw no consistency here. However I’m beginning to see perhaps that there really is a theme of fundamental forces and laws of reality. What tipped me off on this realization is when Odium said that he isn’t hatred, but all human extreme human emotions. I’m thinking now that the Odium shard is simply passion, and why it’s taking such favor of bad passions over good is simply the human vessel, though I may be wrong. Regardless, that helped significantly in my understanding of the shards. Their names are perceptual, not truly defining of their inherent nature, and therefore the structure of the 16 could potentially be much more symmetrical.
So I don’t really know much about the objects you speak of, nor of the four groups of four, but it makes sense to me. Unless this is some sort of thing that I can somehow learn about myself, I would love to hear more about it and what you may have figured out!
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
However I’m beginning to see perhaps that there really is a theme of fundamental forces and laws of reality.
The pattern is very vague, even from my perspective when I know what all the shards are, except one that hasn’t been mentioned yet. It seems that there are probably four groups that they fit into. For example, it seems pretty clear that Cultivation and Ruin would be in the same group. People have come up with theories as to what those groups are, and one has been confirmed.
What tipped me off on this realization is when Odium said that he isn’t hatred, but all human extreme human emotions. I’m thinking now that the Odium shard is simply passion, and why it’s taking such favor of bad passions over good is simply the human vessel, though I may be wrong.
Sanderson has talked about this. He said that the Shard’s perception of itself affects it to some extent. For example, Ruin’s vessel could decide that is really the shard of change and that might result in Ruin not being driven to destruction as much, but it is limited how much that changes.
So the four groups that people have theorized are Feel, Unite, Change, and Survive. These ideas come up a lot in the books and you might notice them. Survive I think was particularly noticeable in Mistborn, while Unite is visible in Stormlight. One of these has been confirmed already. (I won’t say which unless you want me to, because that would be revealed in one book. It’s not a big spoiler, but for my theory it doesn’t really matter which one it is.) The objects I’m alluding to are things you might have seen mentioned, but they have only been explored in Stormlight 3.5.
Each shard seems to be associated with a number. Honor: 10, Odium: 9, Preservation: 16, etc.
This would be easier to talk about if I could reference some shards that you haven’t read about yet. There are three specifically that we know of but aren’t explicitly mentioned in any book. Would you be fine if I mentioned them?
Anyway, the basic organization of my theory is that the four shards in each category have a distance of four between their numbers. Feel would have the Shards with 1, 5, 9, and 13; Unite would have 2, 6, 10, and 14; Change would have 3, 7, 11, and 15; and Survive would have 4, 8, 12, and 16. I’ve had pretty good success with fitting the Shards into this organization. You’ll notice that Odium (9) ends up in Feel, which makes sense, Honor (10) ends up in Unite, and Preservation (16) ends up in Survive. I theorize that Ruin’s number would be 15, since it is in the Change category and is right next to Preservation. Cultivation has been theorized to be 3 and that is also in the Change category. I don’t know if you’re familiar with any other shards, so I’ll stop there, but I’ve been able to mostly fit them in.
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📚 Appreciator of BooksInteresting, this makes me think of number theory! Could they also be placed on a 16-gon, instead of a linear line? That way they are all equal. Because it feels odd for there to be a numerical hierarchy, where would such a thing come from? And it isn’t a line of least to greatest, because Odium is one of if not the most powerful Shard from my understanding. I’ve already heard the names of the other Shards, I just forget them because they aren’t yet relevant to what I’ve read. I know there’s Autonomy, and that one is relevant in White Sands and Wax and Wane, but yeah, while I don’t like spoilers, and don’t see lore in the same way, unless it’s key to the story.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
What’s a sixteen-gon? Would it be a geometric shape with 16 angles? I was using a 4×4 grid, with the first row having 1-4, the second 5-8, the third 9-12, and the fourth 13-16. Then the first column was Feel, the second Unite, the third Change, and the fourth Survive. I’ve been trying to figure out if there is any pattern going across the rows or not.
I think Brandon Sanderson said all the shards are equally powerful. If I’m not mistaken, Odium is considered the most dangerous because of its shardic intent.
I’ve already heard the names of the other Shards, I just forget them because they aren’t yet relevant to what I’ve read.
I’ll just list the Shards here, including their number if it’s known. (I don’t know any more than you about most of them, and some have only been mentioned.)
Ruin
Preservation: 16
Honor: 10
Odium: 9
Cultivation
Autonomy
Dominion
Devotion
Endowment: 5
Virtuosity: 13
Valor
Mercy
Invention
Whimsy
Ambition
??? (Brandon Sanderson hasn’t said anything about this one except that it just wants to survive. People often refer to it as the survival shard.)
I was trying to sort them into the four categories, and I put Odium, Virtuosity, Endowment, and Whimsy in feel. It just so happened that the first three’s numbers were all known; 5, 9, and 13. Each of these are four apart, and that unlocked the pattern. I concluded that Whimsy must be 1. Since Honor is 10, the Unite category must go next to Feel, and since Preservation is 16, Survive must be last, with Change as the third.
So we have Feel: 1, 5, 9, and 13; Unite: 2, 6, 10, and 14; Change: 3, 7, 11, and 15; and Survive: 4, 8, 12, and 16. None of the other shards’ numbers are known, so the best I could do was figure out which category they’d be in. Cultivation, Ruin, and Invention obviously would go in Change. The unknown shard would obviously go in Survive, and I decided Autonomy and Ambition likely did too. Valor, Mercy, and Dominion went in Unite. That left Devotion to go in Change, which doesn’t really make sense. That’s the biggest flaw in this theory.
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📚 Appreciator of BooksInteresting. Part of me wants to believe that Whimsy is secretly Hoid, but we already know that’s not the case, although I wouldn’t rule Hoid out as secretly being Adonulsium. Anyway, yeah, a 16-gon, or rather a regular 16-gon I should say, or you can say Hexadecagon, but that system of naming gets redundant really fast, and most just use the number, but yes, it’s a 16 sided polygon. If your method of organization is correct, it would actually form 4 squares overlaying one another. Here, I’ll do a drawing:
Even if your theory is incorrect, this will probably give a nice format to see different geometric groupings of numbers for other theories.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
Cool! That would actually work to display the shards with this theory. The red square would be Feel, the green one would be Unite, the blue would be change, and the yellow would be survive.
Whimsy is definitely one of most intriguing shards. I’m very interested in seeing what he/she is like.
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📚 Appreciator of BooksThat would actually work to display the shards with this theory.
Oh wait, you already said that lol.
I’m guessing there is some pattern in the Shards, and whatever it is you could probably display it with that chart. The numbers might not be part of the pattern, because apparently Sanderson said that some of the shards have numbers, so it may not be an innate thing, but so far it seems to work pretty well.
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📚 Appreciator of BooksWhimsy is definitely one of most intriguing shards. I’m very interested in seeing what he/she is like.
Imagine the vessel is just the most dull character ever😂 That would be some interesting irony!
I’m guessing there is some pattern in the Shards, and whatever it is you could probably display it with that chart. The numbers might not be part of the pattern, because apparently Sanderson said that some of the shards have numbers, so it may not be an innate thing, but so far it seems to work pretty well.
Definitely. I would assume that whatever the pattern is, it would be visible on here. That even narrows down the possible geometries of numbers significantly. I can work on all the possible combinations. Even if the numbers aren’t innate, and that could very easily be a red haring set by Sanderson to make sure the 17th Shard is continually chasing its tail, I would still like to think there’s an inherent geometry. There’s also the metals diagram for misborn, so there could be an inherent connection.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
Imagine the vessel is just the most dull character ever😂 That would be some interesting irony!
That would be funny, but I think it’s impossible or at least highly improbable. The Shard influences the vessel, so anyone with Whimsy would end up being…whimsical.
Even if the numbers aren’t innate, and that could very easily be a red haring set by Sanderson to make sure the 17th Shard is continually chasing its tail,
Yeah, I was doing some research and almost every time someone brought up the numbers, a bunch of people would be like ‘not all the Shards have a number.’ It seems people are dismissing that possibility too easily, because the numbers seems like something that would be built into the system, knowing Sanderson.
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📚 Appreciator of BooksSo Something that I have wondered about the Cosmere ever since I’ve begun learning about it is what is the real nature of the Shards as far as are they needed in the universe for the relevant ideal to be present. Take Honor for example. Honor’s ideal obviously influences Roshar significantly, being a fundamental part of religion, culture, magic, ect. However, Honor isn’t physically in Scadrial for example, yet honor is still an existing ideal, even if it isn’t the most emphasized. I could say the same thing with literally all of the Shards. So what I’m thinking is perhaps that Honor while more concentrated on one location, doesn’t mean that it may have more sub-aware influence everywhere else in the Cosmere. Or maybe the ideals are all equally spread throughout the Cosmere, but the invested manifestations of said ideals are in concentrated locations.
Is this something known and talked about on 17th Shard or perhaps mentioned by Sanderson before?
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
I don’t know if it’s been talked about, but this is my understanding of it:
The shards are not the embodiment of the idea they represent, they are a piece of Adonalsium’s personality. Thus, the ideas exist separately from the shards. Basically, being the shard Honor, makes Honor care about that concept. That’s why the Knights Radiant speak oaths: they are bound by ideas of honor. I think Honor as a shard’s influence is basically limited to Roshar, but honor as an idea exists everywhere.
Does that make sense?
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📚 Appreciator of BooksSo in short, no I don’t think they need to exist for the relevant idea to be present.
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📚 Appreciator of BooksOk, yeah that makes sense.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
So I finished Elantris. It was really good, but there’s so many things in the Cosmere that is left unsaid. Apparently there is going to be a book two and three eventually though.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
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