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(Yeah! The deep discussions about life the universe and everything are the best kind!)
Ok. First. I shall now declare the neutrality of me within your question answer war. I enjoy questions but I also enjoy posing them in the form of statements and have an enjoyment of posing questions in desire of specific response. I shall follow convention however.
Why doth thou taintest thine questions with statements? How can there be a neutral party in such an obviously black and white war? (Thanks for following convention.)
Anyway. I don’t actually know what mollinism is. In terms of the discussion of Gods omniscience I think of it something like {God knows everything possible to know in the present. Since God knows everything in the present he could accurately know everything that will happen in the immediate future. Repeat this.}
(Actually, nor did I. I actually studied it a little when Molina was first brought up. The jist of at least what middle knowledge is from the theory, is that God sees every possible universe, and picked a particular one, and thus understands everything you are yet to do, but it is still your agency being used to do said things. If anyone more studied on the topic sees that I’m not quite right, missing something important, or you just have a better explanation, please correct me.)
As for your thoughts on God’s omniscience, they sound really interesting, mind if I ask some questions?
You say He knows everything possible to know in the present, is that a distinction between plainly Everything everything in the present? If so, what is that distinction, and why do you believe it is there?
If He only knows the immediate future, how immediate is that? If this were a truly Newtonian universe, would He easily know everything from the beginning to end through having a perfect knowledge in causation if that is how He understands the future as you say? However because we are actually in a quantum mechanical universe, causation has slightly different rules having to do with probability, so does God as an observer can’t know both the position and velocity of a particle at the same time? How much of a handicap w0uld this pose to really stop Him from understanding some macro eventuality eons in the future?
(Another reminder that these aren’t in any way criticisms. I’m just trying to figure out your thinking on a deeper level.)
(this is slightly related to another thread but) that book you mentioned showed up in the Euro textbook)
(Cool!) What did the textbook say about Decline of the West? Did it recommend it, quote it, anything else?
How did Noa fit all the animals on the ark?
As Solfyre pointed out, couldn’t it just be two of each main species that would diversify later? And couldn’t the Ark be of such grand scale beyond of what we would assume possible today, as it was guided by God, and Noah arguably had more or less a hundred years to build it?
What is the infinite coast of Britain?
(Ok, so this is a question relating to both geometry and calculus. What must be realized is that despite what some might point out, the coast of Britain is very not infinite. That being said, it is next to impossible to correctly give it’s value a diagnosis for many reasons. One is the reason why people say it’s infinite, another is that it keeps changing, and third, ‘coastline’ is not well defined for any accurate measurement to take place. The problem we’re asking though is about the infinite coastline, so the latter two reasons can be considered negligible. Now, we will explain why people sometimes consider the coastline of Britain or any other coastline infinite. Britain’s coastline can be considered a fractal. Not a symmetric fractal, as many assume the definition of fractal is. It is fractaline in the sense that it has an infinite roughness. When making a measurement, using a straight line over a rough surface gives a value that is less than the actual length, as is common sense (I hope). So, if you have a surface that is continuously rough at an infinitesimally small scale, you would have an infinite length. This is famously true for the symmetric fractal Koch’s snowflake. While this is true, and the coastline of Britain is very fractaline, it is not a true fractal. It is still finitely rough, because the roughness ends at the atomic scale, so if you wanted to know the actual coastline distance, you want to measure by atoms. This distance will be of incredible orders of magnitude, but still finite. Though this still can’t be implemented because it just leads to the other said issues with measuring a coastline.)
(Response question)
Can you prove to me mathematically that there will always be some point on the Earth where it’s temperature is exactly the same as it’s opposite point on the other side of the Earth?
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
@otherworldlyhistorian @freedomwriter76
Wait… that’s Stalin?
My AP euro teacher showed him to our class and one of the girls was like “he actually looks kind of hot”.
😮😮😮😬😬😬
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
You say He knows everything possible to know in the present, is that a distinction between plainly Everything everything in the present? If so, what is that distinction, and why do you believe it is there?
(No distinction. He knows everything everything. The whole idea around this is basically that if you knew everything about one point (and had the knowledge to use this knowledge by knowing how everything works) then you could know everything. Also that is not achievable by humans. In a semi-paradoxial way this would allow for both free will and God’s omniscience. This is all a personal theory. It is possibly wrong. I don’t think it is really possible to know yet if it is correct (which it is probably slightly off at least). It is just drawn from the conclusion that God is omniscient and gives us free will)
If He only knows the immediate future, how immediate is that? If this were a truly Newtonian universe, would He easily know everything from the beginning to end through having a perfect knowledge in causation if that is how He understands the future as you say? However because we are actually in a quantum mechanical universe, causation has slightly different rules having to do with probability, so does God as an observer can’t know both the position and velocity of a particle at the same time? How much of a handicap w0uld this pose to really stop Him from understanding some macro eventuality eons in the future?
(Ah. Quantum physics. See if he knows everything everything he knows both the position and velocity of a particle (my theory is not focused around this so I don’t know how. I already know he can because he is omniscient so that problem didn’t need to be solved).) (Did you seriously think I believed that the world was a newtonian model 😔 (this is kind of joking))
(Cool!) What did the textbook say about Decline of the West? Did it recommend it, quote it, anything else?
(That in it a guy argues that cultures rise and decline. He then proceeds to say that the west is going to decline and be taken over by asia. For context I will say that this was written in the mid-war period which means the asians being referred to are probably facist Japan. As for my personal opinion I would disagree because I would argue that by incorporating neo-eurpoes as the west we eliminate the point all together.)
As Solfyre pointed out, couldn’t it just be two of each main species that would diversify later? And couldn’t the Ark be of such grand scale beyond of what we would assume possible today, as it was guided by God, and Noah arguably had more or less a hundred years to build it?
(The ark is buildable (mostly) (someone did it).) Also what do you mean by main species?
Can you prove to me mathematically that there will always be some point on the Earth where it’s temperature is exactly the same as it’s opposite point on the other side of the Earth?
(I can’t but I bet I know someone at quizbowl with the answer.)
Wait… that’s Stalin?
(✅)
(Now for response question)
What were the Nephilim?
When is nationalism bad?
What is your opinion on American Flag Crosses?
Through darkness,
light shines brightestDoes not the God say in the Bible, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds“?
(And besides that, there’s still no fossil evidence for a change in kind. There’s no ‘missing link’ in between two different species, and there’s no living example of evolution, either. Humans, clearly, have not evolved- Adam and Eve were not cavemen or apes. While God had the ability to work through evolution, I don’t believe he did, even with animals.)
Follow your heart, but take your brain with you.
(On top of that, the animals on the ark were most likely young- even the dinosaurs on the ark could have been fairly small.)
Follow your heart, but take your brain with you.
(No distinction. He knows everything everything. The whole idea around this is basically that if you knew everything about one point (and had the knowledge to use this knowledge by knowing how everything works) then you could know everything. Also that is not achievable by humans. In a semi-paradoxial way this would allow for both free will and God’s omniscience. This is all a personal theory. It is possibly wrong. I don’t think it is really possible to know yet if it is correct (which it is probably slightly off at least). It is just drawn from the conclusion that God is omniscient and gives us free will)
(Makes sense. Many would argue that would mean reality is still deterministic, because our actions are still known before we make them through causality, and this same argument could be made towards Molinism. The thing is though is how free will is specifically defined is loosely acknowledged. So the arguments against these ideas would be invalid depending on what you consider to be free will.)
(Did you seriously think I believed that the world was a newtonian model 😔 (this is kind of joking))
(Bruh. Of course not. Sorry if I gave that impression:( You stated immediate future, meaning immediately after some event, not the far future of that event. So I was asking if the reason why you were thinking it was only immediate was because of a handicap with quantum mechanics. The only reason I mentioned newtonian mechanics is because of the relevance as a deterministic model, vs quantum mechanics being a model of more controversy concerning determinism. I didn’t need to mention it, but I tend to rant, and will go on tangents I feel are at all relevant. You now seem to be suggesting however that it is not just immediate, and is in fact a perfect knowledge of all time through causality, even with quantum mechanics, which looks deterministic again, but again, definition. Determinism needs to be accepted to some degree of course, otherwise we would be ignoring causality. Again, sorry if I gave the impression that I was somehow suggesting that you had a lesser understanding of physics or anything else. It is easy to tell your learned, I wasn’t challenging that, I just tend to rant regardless.)
(That in it a guy argues that cultures rise and decline. He then proceeds to say that the west is going to decline and be taken over by asia. For context I will say that this was written in the mid-war period which means the asians being referred to are probably facist Japan. As for my personal opinion I would disagree because I would argue that by incorporating neo-eurpoes as the west we eliminate the point all together.)
(Fair point. However I think that it would still be worth the read. It doesn’t matter that you don’t agree with some of the author’s points. He was just a man, and didn’t have all the answers, but he had a degree of competence that is rarely scene, and therefore should be acknowledged properly before dismissing it. I’m not a history buff though, like yourself.)
(The ark is buildable (mostly) (someone did it).) Also what do you mean by main species?
When you say someone, are you referring to someone other than Noah? (Sorry, I don’t study taxonomy often, I think the proper word would be family. Basically like Solfyre was saying with the two cats before they diversified through natural selection.)
(I can’t but I bet I know someone at quizbowl with the answer.)
*Goes cry in a corner then comes back* (Cool! I could also tell you if your actually interested. It’s a very intuitive, fast, and straight forward proof.)
What were the Nephilim?
(I’ve heard of them before. They’re giants in the bible, though the word is translated differently in different versions from Hebrew. I can’t really say much else. I can say that when I read the question, my first thought of the Nephites, an ancient people from the America’s that came from Israel, as recorded in The Book of Mormon, additional scripture I observe as well as the Bible.)
When is nationalism bad?
(Ugh, political theory. We can quickly point to extreme nationalism in the form of fascism, which is clearly very bad without need to get any more into it. If there is a particular line you want me to attempt to draw, I don’t know if I can, but I can try. Cultural identity is very important for civilization, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with believing your country is in some way better than another. We are subject to the law of our country, so if that is a law we believe in, and believe it is a just system, then we should be free to believe that it is better. However, there is a big difference between the country, and the people within it. It is very wrong to believe some any group of people is better or more important than any other, and this is where I think the line lies, or at least somewhere close here. Because that’s what lead to fascism for example, it wasn’t the nation, but the people themselves being posed as being somehow greater than everyone else. That’s my take at least.) What are your thoughts? Any points you would disagree with, or would add?
What is your opinion on American Flag Crosses?
(…Hmm, I don’t think I really have much of an opinion on them. I never even thought about American crosses until now. I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with them if that’s what your asking. As an American myself, I do believe that the Founding Fathers were inspired men of God, and that this is a country created to be free under him (Of course, it’s losing that freedom quickly right now. And yes, I know about many of the atrocities this country has done in the past, but those are the actions of imperfect men, separate from the nation they represent.). So if I ever saw anyone wearing a Cross with a American flag, I would simply see that this person believes in this nation as God’s chosen land of freedom, and show their devotion to both God and their nation in the form of apparel. I understand that some might find it disrespectful to the Savior and the Cross He gave, but frankly I don’t really think He cares about what people wear as much as He cares about their devotion to Him.)
Why is there something, rather than Nothing?
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
He was just a man, and didn’t have all the answers, but he had a degree of competence that is rarely scene, and therefore should be acknowledged properly before dismissing it
What do you mean by degree of competence? Is not all of history a game where we must incorporate the fact that things have bias? Is prediction just a guess? Is it not good to read things that we don’t agree with to escape the danger of bubble communities?
(Bruh. Of course not. Sorry if I gave that impression:( You stated immediate future, meaning immediately after some event, not the far future of that event. So I was asking if the reason why you were thinking it was only immediate was because of a handicap with quantum mechanics. The only reason I mentioned newtonian mechanics is because of the relevance as a deterministic model, vs quantum mechanics being a model of more controversy concerning determinism. I didn’t need to mention it, but I tend to rant, and will go on tangents I feel are at all relevant. You now seem to be suggesting however that it is not just immediate, and is in fact a perfect knowledge of all time through causality, even with quantum mechanics, which looks deterministic again, but again, definition. Determinism needs to be accepted to some degree of course, otherwise we would be ignoring causality. Again, sorry if I gave the impression that I was somehow suggesting that you had a lesser understanding of physics or anything else. It is easy to tell your learned, I wasn’t challenging that, I just tend to rant regardless.)
(First I was joking. You did not. I do know people who probably don’t believe in quantum physics. Most of them are old though.
Second it is not determinism because we make the choices (or in a way have already made the choices (in a theoretical way)).
I’ve heard of them before. They’re giants in the bible, though the word is translated differently in different versions from Hebrew. I can’t really say much else.
I had read some stuff that said they were probably neanderthals which would make sense.
What are your thoughts? Any points you would disagree with, or would add?
I would say that nationalism is bad when you replace God with nation.
(…Hmm, I don’t think I really have much of an opinion on them. I never even thought about American crosses until now. I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with them if that’s what your asking. As an American myself, I do believe that the Founding Fathers were inspired men of God, and that this is a country created to be free under him (Of course, it’s losing that freedom quickly right now. And yes, I know about many of the atrocities this country has done in the past, but those are the actions of imperfect men, separate from the nation they represent.). So if I ever saw anyone wearing a Cross with a American flag, I would simply see that this person believes in this nation as God’s chosen land of freedom, and show their devotion to both God and their nation in the form of apparel. I understand that some might find it disrespectful to the Savior and the Cross He gave, but frankly I don’t really think He cares about what people wear as much as He cares about their devotion to Him.)
I would have to disagree with you about some of your points. The first would be that I would point out that America is not God’s chosen land of freedom and that not all of the founding fathers were christians (some of them were freemasons which is not christianity). I would say that my only problem with American flag crosses is that sometimes they feel like they are putting America above/equal to God (which it is not). I think that otherwise they are meh (as in I don’t personally like them but feel they are only inherently a tier 3 issue (as this guy in a sermon I was listening to said)). (I would also point out that I disagree with additional books to the bible but I feel that is the exstent of where we will go with this (as said before I don’t really want to argue about this (I am just anticipating future arguments using additional books based on a quick wikipedia (I know, not the most reputable) search.)))
Why is there something, rather than Nothing?
(I dislike these types of questions.)
(Response Questions)
None for now? (Is this a statement.)
Through darkness,
light shines brightest(I was never arguing for complete evolution. God clearly made Humans separate from other animals and on the different days of creation made specific types of creatures. I am saying that I think it likely that during Noah’s time there were less animals (and that it is possible these were only ancestor animals of stuff around today). I am suggesting that God would have made it so that the animals around would fit and work with the Ark.)
Through darkness,
light shines brightest- Rank: Knight in Shining Armor
- Total Posts: 692
Will you all join a rebellion with me against the Stamency (since we must ask questions here 😜)?
- Rank: Knight in Shining Armor
- Total Posts: 692
(This is the only rebellion I’ll ever start unless of course they outlaw Christianity and even then it wouldn’t be out in the open on purpose unless it has to be) 😉😉
@thearcaneaxiom
(I was going through my list and reading plot summaries of musicals/plays when I came upon the Book of the Mormon musical after reading the plot summary I have the following questions)Assuming you are a Mormon what is your opinion on The Book of the Mormon musical?
@sarafini
(The odds of Christianity being outlawed are slim. It is more likely to be (in this very hypothetical scenario) a state-controlled Christianity or a ban on aspects of Christianity. I doubt that would happen right now though (I think the hypothetical fascist revolution would happen first(/be more likely) (which would also lead to a hypothetical state-controlled Christianity.)) (That is all basically a hypothetical joke and should not be taken super seriously (Since Jan 6th 2021 the hypothetical fascist revolution has just become my go-to for every time someone makes statements about how our country is falling apart. (As a joke reply.)))
(Sorry but I cannot join your rebellion because of my neutrality. Sorry.)
Through darkness,
light shines brightest- Rank: Knight in Shining Armor
- Total Posts: 692
(@otherworldlyhistorian Christianity is so different for so many people that I understand that completely. The aspects I believe have a higher probability of being outlawed/banned since I’m a Reformed Baptist but that’s my take 😜 I don’t think you would but please don’t debate me on this. I’ve had people who don’t believe what I believe do that to me once I told them what I believe and then they debate me on it. In the end it just frustrates both of us and I never feel like I can be friends with them after that because I think they would just try to debate me once again. And like I said earlier I don’t think you would do that but I wanted you to know that I really don’t enjoy debates especially on things I strongly believe in. 🙂 I don’t care what other people believe as long as we respect each other, although I do want others to agree with me just like any other person would. This is turning way longer than I meant it to. Lol. Anyway, I totally get that. No hard feelings. Stay neutral. It’s better. Lol)
- Rank: Knight in Shining Armor
- Total Posts: 692
(Idk why your tag didn’t work. Here you go @otherworldlyhistorian lol)
@sarafini
(I feel like pre-destination-related stuff is one of those things that divide Christians more than it should (I just looked up reformed baptist (which I wasn’t familiar with too much) and saw that it is basically baptist + Calvinism (two sects I do know a bit about)) so I may be wrong as I am just drawing a conclusion). Personally, God’s omniscience is one of those things that is just beyond our current (or maybe ever) possibility to ever completely understand so I feel like we should tolerate other theories as long as they still hold within the faith. I really feel like tolerance is one thing the church (or at least some of the churches I have been to (including my current one)) is one thing we could improve upon. There are certain things that are essential things that we all need to believe but I feel like we (Christians) could really benefit from being more tolerant towards other Christians and also of being more tolerant of non-Christians.)
Through darkness,
light shines brightest
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