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@Kate-flournoy *bows* Maybe you could be Isildur’s heir instead?
☀ ☀ ☀ ENFP ☀ ☀ ☀
Haha. @dragon-snapper Star Wars. Gotta love it. *grins*
Okay @kate-flournoy To clarify…these are separate arcs?
Writer. Dreamer. Sometimes blogger. MBTI mess. Lover of Jesus and books.
@kate-flournoy Yeah, the 99 in my user-tag stands for 1999. I was born on February 26th, though.
Writer. Dreamer. Sometimes blogger. MBTI mess. Lover of Jesus and books.
@Dragon-Snapper yes, that sounds slightly more agreeable. 😉
@That_Writer_Girl_99 oh yes, sorry. I should have clarified that.@kate-flournoy Okay, this is the book title then: How to Write Novels by Isildur’s Heir
☀ ☀ ☀ ENFP ☀ ☀ ☀
Thanks. @kate-flournoy
So…how does one go about planning/outlining an arc like this?
Writer. Dreamer. Sometimes blogger. MBTI mess. Lover of Jesus and books.
@Dragon-Snapper *chokes*
@That_Writer_Girl_99 that’s very much up to you. Some do it completely in their head, some write outlines longer than the work itself. The key thing is to figure out where your MC starts, where you want her by the end, and how you’re going to get her there. Follow the five plot point thingy using your MCs arc as the thing that ties it all together and your story should be well structured and powerful.
But don’t be afraid to trust your intuition. It’s good to know what you’re doing, of course, but speaking for myself, after I’ve figured out a basic roadmap, my intuition mostly guides me.Hang on–if we’re the same age, that means you’re graduating this year too, right? @kate-flournoy
That makes sense. I really struggle with outlining, honestly, but I think I’m getting better.
Can we talk about that, actually? I can’t figure out how I want the story to end, which means I don’t know what needs to happen in the middle…Writer. Dreamer. Sometimes blogger. MBTI mess. Lover of Jesus and books.
@That_Writer_Girl_99 yep! I shall be graduating this year. *grins**salutes her fellow soon-to-be-graduate*
I struggle with outlining too. But I’m going to try it in earnest with my next project to see if I can speed up some. 😛
That is a good question, yes… where do you want your protagonist to end up? Hm. I don’t wanna put words into your mouth here. You know your story better than I, anyway. So even if you like my suggestion, do some thinking around of your own before you decide. 😉
I think I heard somewhere that thinking is good for the brain…Ahem. Yes. So I assume you want Kara to end up with a full understanding of the thematic truth— that it’s better to face hard reality than shelter in ignorance, right?
Then the story should end with her acquiring what she needs.
See, there are two things that define a character. What they want, and what they need. Kara wants security. But she needs courage. She wants to be blind. But she needs to see.
So… what makes her world secure?
I think it’s the Warden.
If the story comes to a climax with her killing him, that will totally drive home the completion of her arc. She rejects the false security of ignorance, and in killing the Warden both states her new belief and commits to help the others see— the others whom the Warden will no longer be able to care for.
If you build the whole story around Kara trying to get what she wants without facing the real issue (the false security of the Warden) and then finally break her to the point where she realizes it’s the only option (pushed on by the various foils and impact characters) that’s pretty strong right there.
So… I think the Warden is the one who ties it all together. He’s the one thing all the characters have in common— they’re all trying to do something to him; depose him or expose him for the gentle and horribly destructive Lie he is, or whatever.
Blake represents one end of the thematic spectrum, Kara the other. All the others are probably somewhere in the middle. Kara needs to move through all of those others, discarding them one by one as they don’t succeed in giving her what she wants, until she arrives at Blake’s end and realizes the truth. That’s her arc.Little note here— do not forget about the midpoint. (Seriously. I missed the midpoint in my WIP and it almost destroyed my MC.) What happens at the midpoint is more or less Kara realizing that what she wants may not be the answer, so she starts working towards discovering what she needs. She switches from a reactive role to an active role. Instead of trying to cope, she’s trying to control.
For your story, I’m seeing her ditching all the more or less peaceful EiLs and looking for a more drastic answer to her dilemma. Not until she reaches the end of those other answers will she realize that Blake’s way is the only way, but after the midpoint she realizes what she’s doing isn’t working and that she needs to take serious steps to something new.Does that make sense? Am I moving too fast or being too vague?
It’s…a little vague, to be honest. I feel like I’m slowly falling into a sea of ideas and forgetting how to swim in the process. @kate-flournoy
I’m a little daunted by the fact that I have absolutely no ideas when it comes to the actual plot. Like, I get that plotting the MC’s character arc, and the ones that come alongside it, are important, but is a character arc more important than what happens in the plot? Are the plot and the character arc two separate things?
Listening to all these ideas is one thing, but actually writing them…I don’t know how. I honestly just…don’t know how.
Writer. Dreamer. Sometimes blogger. MBTI mess. Lover of Jesus and books.
*pauses* *thinks for a moment* In all honesty, I think all the different terms and elements (no pun intended) being thrown around is really distracting me. Can we talk about plot? And character arcs? But relating to Kara and no one else?
I’m very, very overwhelmed right now. By everything you’re saying…by my complete lack of knowledge on this subject despite years of writing…by all the different aspects of writing a story that I didn’t know about…
I’ve been trying hard to organize my ideas during the past few days, but there’s just so many–
you know what, let’s just stop and focus on Kara’s arc, okay? Please?Here’s what I understand so far, and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
Somehow–I don’t know how–I have to tie my theme into Kara’s arc, but also into Blake’s, the Warden’s, and anyone else who becomes necessary.
My theme is intelligence vs. ignorance, but the three paths you narrowed it down to are the ones I like. I think. I’m having trouble coming up with one to fit Blake, though. *sweeps that thought aside* I have no idea to tie that theme into Kara’s arc. At all.
I get the 5 points of story structure, or whatever they’re called, but I’m not sure how to use that information. Besides, you know, understanding how stories are structured. How am I supposed to use that?
Does the plot…matter? All your emphasis has been on the characters, but the characters, my ideas, the setting…they’re all nothing without the plot, right? I mean, if I don’t know where the actual story is going, how am I supposed to write anything? And do I have to know where the characters are going first? Or can I outline the general plot?
But…how do I outline the general plot without knowing where the characters are going? *scratches head*
Sorry…at the time I’m posting this, I’m rather irritated with something else that completely doesn’t relate to this at all. All I want is to sit down and think this out. But tonight I’m exhausted.
Er…I have to babysit tomorrow, so I won’t be able to reply in the morning, when you’ll probably reply to this…and when I get home, I have to do school. Hopefully I catch you online at some point. *sighs*
Writer. Dreamer. Sometimes blogger. MBTI mess. Lover of Jesus and books.
@That_Writer_Girl_99 I’m sorry. I should have realized you were getting overwhelmed and slowed down a bit. When I get excited it can be a bit like drinking from a water-hose. 😛 If it starts happening again just tell me. I can slow down. 😉
Of course we can talk about Kara.
But first let me answer your question about plot vs. character. Which is more important? The truth is, neither. The plot exists for the characters and the characters for the plot. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship. There are some stories with a marked emphasis on one or the other, but I think those that are balanced are stronger.
Let’s define plot as the real-world results of characters acting on their convictions. That’s a good place to start. The characters and what they believe (and how they act on what they believe) is what makes things happen. As in the real world. All actions are the results of someone’s convictions. The interaction of humans is an enormous, complicated web of worldviews and values and (sometimes) hidden motives. It’s human nature that makes the world, not the other way around.@kate-flournoy Okay. I think I’ve been thinking about the relationship between plot and characters wrong my entire life. But that’s okay. At least I’m learning the truth now, right? *sighs*
The good news is, it’s starting to make sense. So…to plan out where I want the story to go, it sounds like I need to ask myself how Kara would react to things. How would she react if she was walking into the cafeteria and someone punched her? And stuff like that. Kara’s actions determine the plot, by way of the consequences to those actions, and how she reacts to everything else happening around her. Am I understanding that right?
Writer. Dreamer. Sometimes blogger. MBTI mess. Lover of Jesus and books.
@That_Writer_Girl_99 yes! You’re getting it! 😀
Okay Kate. Settle down. Let us be calm here.
To be totally honest, I had to learn that too. 😛 It was quite a revolution for how I’d always thought, but hey. Revolutions can be good.
The thing I most love about this way of viewing plot is that it really, really develops the characters.So— example. Kara. Yes. You do need to determine how she reacts to things. But more importantly, you need to figure out what would challenge her Experiment in Living and force her to react in order to restore balance to her inner world.
This is called the Inciting Incident and basically kicks the whole plot and theme into motion. I think you already have one.
Tam fighting back and being dragged off never to be seen again.
This is enough to shock Kara out of her placid apathy and make her ask questions— is this really the way things have to be? This is Kara’s first reaction; the one that will set the entire chain of events spinning as she searches for the truth.Okay. Now stick with me while I dissect your Inciting Incident from a thematic perspective. (Actually already really well done.)
What does it accomplish from a thematic standpoint?
1. Illustrates Kara’s EiL that it’s better to be secure than to face hard truth.
3. Illustrates Tam’s EiL that there comes a time when ignorant bondage is no longer an acceptable price for security. (Notice how this very closely mirrors the truth you want to establish— that Intelligence is better than Ignorance).
2. Contrasts Kara’s EiL with Tam’s in a very stark manner, setting up the conflict between worldviews that will last the whole story.
4. Pushes Kara out of her shy, reclusive bubble and shocks her into the awareness that this may not be worth the price. She will not reject her EiL yet, but this is the first step towards her questioning it.Beautifully done.
Now. What you need to do now is figure out what Kara does about it. That will be your First Plot Point. But we’ll get to that in a bit.Is everything I just explained clear? Anything I need to clarify?
@kate-flournoy *laughs* It was actually me who didn’t see your response, instead of the other way around. Wonder how I missed that…
No, this actually makes sense. I’m a little jarred by the fact that I somehow managed to do some of what you’re saying without even knowing it. Have you ever used a cooking utensil or something, and like, you know what it does, but you don’t know what it’s actually called? That’s what this feels like.
Now. What you need to do now is figure out what Kara does about it. That will be your First Plot Point. But we’ll get to that in a bit.
Before I get to this, though, is there anything else about Kara’s character that I need to outline for myself? I’ve already done some of her character-work throughout the course of the first chapter, but did I miss anything?
Writer. Dreamer. Sometimes blogger. MBTI mess. Lover of Jesus and books.
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