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The greatest enjoyment I got from the prologue was the twist from ‘we’re doing this to save the baby’ to ‘what’s this baby doing here?’ That was great.
Really?!?! That’s awesome…I guess I’m keeping it now XD XD
You should think about how strong of an allegory you want. Once you say Jesus, all readers will know this is a Christian allegory, and that will be your transparency level for the rest of the story.
Good point. In that case, I need @thearcaneaxiom (HELP) to help me make up more names for God/Jesus.
And if the couple believed they could pushed past the evil and still love their son, that might help your allegory. People can’t force themselves to be good forever.
Ooh, that’s a good point!!!
My thought process was just that Kaden and Sevryn didn’t realize how the oath would affect them. I think they just thought that evil people just happened to join the Pythonos and they didn’t realize that most of them started out not completely evil, and then became fully evil the longer they were part of the Pythonos.
Lukas&Livia
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Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333Really?!?!
Yep!! XD
Ooh, that’s a good point!!! My thought process was just that Kaden and Sevryn didn’t realize how the oath would affect them.
Both ways work well!! Whatever makes more sense to you; I’m just throwing random ideas to help you brainstorm 😉
Question…why is this a problem?
I think what Jonas was mentioning (please correct me if I’m wrong!) is before, there was some moral grayness and room for human variation, especially in Kratos. Now the Paynes are clearly good and Kratos is treating them like dirt, therefore becoming bad.
Kratos also becomes representative of his social group, so the reader can assume that all his people hate Paynes.
I do think it would be interesting if Kratos had a more gray approach to the Paynes. People irl have different perspectives and opinions than even their own social group. Some might hate Paynes, others don’t care, and others want to help but are controlled by the haters.
If you have more representation of other perspectives, though, evil Kratos is fine ;P
"Infinity is the epitomy of manhood"
I have to say, you are definitely improving your skills 👌
"Infinity is the epitomy of manhood"
Thank you for everything Whaley!! This means a lot <3
Both ways work well!! Whatever makes more sense to you; I’m just throwing random ideas to help you brainstorm
Ohhhh gotcha! Thanks XD
I think what Jonas was mentioning (please correct me if I’m wrong!) is before, there was some moral grayness and room for human variation, especially in Kratos. Now the Paynes are clearly good and Kratos is treating them like dirt, therefore becoming bad.
Kratos also becomes representative of his social group, so the reader can assume that all his people hate Paynes.
What if…I show (through Kratos’s thoughts) how the Pythonos are affecting everyone with their lies/brainwashing??? That way it would show that Kratos is just acting based on what the Pythonos have forced his mind to accept as truth, and it would cause him to be more morally gray? Maybe he tries to help them, but the lies in his mind won’t let him, and he can’t?
Also at this point most of the people in Andromeda (I’d say a good 80 percent of the whole population) hate Paynes, so “evil Kratos” could still work.
I’ll have to think on that one…
I have to say, you are definitely improving your skills 👌
Thank you so much! <3
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333Because of their spiritual decay as they slowly drifted away from the Great One and became more and more open to the idea of abandoning their faith, they would start to take on characteristics of Pythonos without actually becoming one entirely.
Okay, that explanation works. However, this being the first chapter and all, readers will assume that that is just an innate characteristic of Paynes. Furthermore, Kratos shouldn’t expect the smell, and you might want to make him remark to himself about it.
Question…why is this a problem?
It honestly makes more sense now that he is unsympathetic (in my opinion) because before, he refused to help them even though they were farm more powerful then he was. Before, with the characters being Pythonos, it would have made more sense for Kratos to help them because he was afraid of them. Now he just despises Paynes and refuses to help them, so this scene works a little smoother.
I don’t necessarily mean sympathetic as we would normally use it in writing. Like I mentioned before, it seems a little unrealistic how absolutely cruel he is being. It’s not just that he is refusing them help, it’s to the point where he is almost amused by their suffering. And yes, there are totally people this evil in real life, but it doesn’t seem to me like this should be the norm, and since Kratos is our introduction to how society treats Paynes, the readers will assume that this is the norm.
Unless… How do you want the other Andromedan races to come across? Are most of them as bad as Kratos? If that is the case, then keeping this is just fine. I just had an unspoken assumption that most of them wouldn’t be this bad. If you do intend to characterize them all this way, then Kratos works, but it does seem a bit extreme. Especially this:
he fought back a smirk at the horror that came into the woman’s eyes. “I don’t suspect he’ll last until morning.”
(And he also laughs after shooting blinding light at Kaden.) He is literally taking delight in their suffering. Like I said, if you want them all to be this bad, then this is fine. Alternatively, I would find it more believable if you make him more hostile, but less…jovial? Make it seem like he wants them gone more than that he takes pleasure in seeing them in pain. I just think that even if the Pythonos have corrupted everyone to hate the Paynes, a person who actually enjoys watching them suffer is still going to be very rare.
The resistance has already been started. The Pythonos aren’t fully in power, but they are on the brink of overthrowing the government.
The Pythonos don’t have to be in a position of authority to spread their lies, just like how Satan can still cause so much damage without having the ultimate authority.
Okay, I figured it was something like that.
The offspring is like you said…always one or the other, not a mix. It’s completely random which race of Andromedan the child is.
Okay, cool.
I meant that the parents would be put in the same social status, so that they would be viewed as Paynes, without having any of the Paynes’ genetics.
Fair enough.
Satan tries to make the Darkness appear desireable, just as he convinced Eve in the Garden that the fruit would give her more power and knowledge.
The Master was just trying to make joining him seem even better, as well as the fact that he can see the potential in Kaden to become a very evil Pythonos.
Okay, but they already seemed perfectly willing to join, so why did he feel the need to offer anything else?
Does that make sense?
Yes.
Yes, the others knew that this would happen, though Kaden and Sevyrn didn’t know about them becoming entirely evil. Pythonos do have the ability to heal their son, but the Master knew that they wouldn’t care about him enough to actually have him heal their son.
Okay.
That’s literally exactly what happens 😂😂
lol. Glad to see I’m on the right track!
Anyways, moving on to chapter 1!
Seeing as this is significantly shorter, I won’t go through by section like I did with the prologue. I don’t have as much feedback for this one.
I think it was a good change to add this scene. In previous drafts, I remember that Sef’s plotline started a bit later, with a certain other event…
Especially since missing a father is a big part of Sef’s plot (at least I’m assuming that’s still the case), I think it was a wise idea to start with this.
I think that this chapter was also well written. I don’t have any grammatical suggestions or anything.
I guess I’ll just continue to chapter 2.
Cassian’s bare feet flew over the verdant carpet, effortlessly leaping over sticks and stones in his path.
In his small hands he held a branch, and he wielded it high as he pretended to gallop through the trees.
He was going to save his princess from the clutches of an evil king, before it was too late! He swung the blade back and forth, decapitating invisible warriors left and right. No, there was nothing that could stop him from rescuing a damsel in distress!
Finally he tired, and so he leaned against a tree to rest, digging some berries out of his pocket and cramming them into his mouth, wiping away the rich juice that spilled down his jaw.
He missed the days when his father would play castle with him. They would have tournaments and sword fights! His father even promised to make him wooden armor when they could find enough money.
But now money was tight, and Mani and Pani were always working. Cassian was always hungry, and he was much too thin for the ten year old boy he was.
His legs itched to run again, and so he got up and resumed his quest.
This is all good characterization. Cassian wasn’t a major character before, so it’s interesting to see some more of him this time.
Somebody had left a child here! And he was sick!
Maybe add some description. How does Cassian know that he is sick?
“Oh, Great One, forgive me,” he knelt, placing a hand over the wood, his tears mixing with the tree’s blood. “I couldn’t watch my children starve one by one,” he shook his head, as if trying to justify his actions.
It’s not super clear how cutting the tree down will help his children not starve.
Azazel looked at the boy, and saw that he was a Payne, maybe about four or five. His cheekbones were sharp, and he was too light.
He was abandoned, he realized. His parents were likely too poor to take care of him. “He’s sick,” he realized, feeling an odd chill at the child’s unblinking eyes. “Let’s take him home and see if we can help him get better,” he smiled at Cass. “How would you like to have a new little brother?”
It might be good to have some mention of which race Azazel and Cassian are at some point.
Harkening back to what I was saying about Kratos, this is obviously an example that the Andromedans are not all as bad as Kratos. Obviously, we can accept that this family is nicer than most, but still.
Okay, that’s all! I think this is off to a strong start! One thing I would think about is not disorienting the reader by jumping around POVs too much. If it weren’t for the fact that this chapter connects to the prologue, with the abandoned child, I would have suggested having another Sef chapter before this. If Livia is still a POV character in this draft, I would hold off on introducing her until you do a few more Sef and Lilitu chapters (unless you introduce her though someone else’s POV.)
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📚 Appreciator of BooksOkay, that explanation works. However, this being the first chapter and all, readers will assume that that is just an innate characteristic of Paynes. Furthermore, Kratos shouldn’t expect the smell, and you might want to make him remark to himself about it.
Okay good point XD XD
Unless… How do you want the other Andromedan races to come across? Are most of them as bad as Kratos? If that is the case, then keeping this is just fine. I just had an unspoken assumption that most of them wouldn’t be this bad. If you do intend to characterize them all this way, then Kratos works, but it does seem a bit extreme.
You’re right, it does come across as a bit extreme. But Kratos was/is a representation of every Andromedan race, and it’s showing how EVERYONE treats Paynes. Paynes aren’t even seen as “people” anymore (think WWII during the holocaust, except there aren’t any sympathizers). I can make him less…idk, happy that this is happening, but it is the norm and it would be accurate to assume that this is how everyone treats them.
Okay, but they already seemed perfectly willing to join, so why did he feel the need to offer anything else?
When Kaden walks into the room, he literally doesn’t want to be there and is having second thoughts:
He didn’t like this. He didn’t like the Pythonos, didn’t like the stone walls that seemed to close in around him, and he certainly didn’t like the seven headed dragon that was chained in the far corner.
He shows us he wants to leave, until the Master offers him power. Then with the promise of power, it won him over.
I think it was a good change to add this scene.
Thanks!!! This chapter was one of the easiest to write…just because it’s sad, and I write emotions better than anything else 😂😂
Maybe add some description. How does Cassian know that he is sick?
👍👍
It’s not super clear how cutting the tree down will help his children not starve.
Oop yeah you’re right….
It might be good to have some mention of which race Azazel and Cassian are at some point.
Harkening back to what I was saying about Kratos, this is obviously an example that the Andromedans are not all as bad as Kratos. Obviously, we can accept that this family is nicer than most, but still.
It’s not an example because Cassian and Azazel are Paynes themselves. If they weren’t Paynes, this would complicate things XD
So everyone is still as bad as Kratos.
Okay, that’s all! I think this is off to a strong start! One thing I would think about is not disorienting the reader by jumping around POVs too much. If it weren’t for the fact that this chapter connects to the prologue, with the abandoned child, I would have suggested having another Sef chapter before this. If Livia is still a POV character in this draft, I would hold off on introducing her until you do a few more Sef and Lilitu chapters (unless you introduce her though someone else’s POV.)
Thank you!!! Yeah, I *think* I’m getting better at not jumping around too much…but just tell me if I start to do that XD
And yeah, Livia is first introduced through Lilitu’s POV. But she doesn’t get a full POV until much later.
I’m doing a few chapters from Neveah’s POV, since in the early beginning Sef isn’t as much of a main character (she’s only 4 atm). But since Sef is still in the picture it shouldn’t be too confusing.
I’ll try to post the next chapter soon.
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333DROPPING THE NEXT CHAPTER!!!
Just so you know, it’s not edited…heh…heh…
so just bear with me XD
Tags: @jonas @grcr @esther-c @highscribeofaetherium @ellette-giselle @rae @and-my-brain-stopped-working
“Please! Someone help me!” Neveah gasped for breath, frantically scanning the crowds for a familiar face.
Where could Sef have gone?
She tried to glimpse behind the carts and swinging merchandise, but she couldn’t find any sign of her. Spinning around in slow circle and shielding her eyes from the sun, she tried to stay calm and be rational.
Maybe she just went to the outhouse.
But it was no use.
Her stomach flip flopped and her heart beat wildly. How could you be so stupid? Panic took over in crashing waves.
“Please…”
I only turned around for a moment! How could she be gone?
The breeze brought her a whiff of a foul smell…only adding to her dread.
She had to find Sef before the Pythonos did.
She closed her eyes, shutting out the world, her chest feeling ready to burst.
A hand touched her arm, making her jump.
“What is it, dear?” She whirled around to face a woman, looking about her age. Her dark hair was tied in a tight bun, and her violet eyes looked into Neveah’s with a kindness that made Neveah want to embrace her so tightly and never let go. The woman was obviously an Estrello, but her slight frame and a streak of blonde in her dark hair gave her Payne identity away.
“It’s my daughter,” Neveah said, her eyes flitting about. Please let Sef be here. “We were walking through the market, and I turned around and she was gone!”
The woman put a hand on Neveah’s arm. “We’ll find her. What does she look like?”
“She’s about four or five, dark hair with green highlights, and green eyes,” Neveah said, her eyes wandering again. “Her name’s Sef.”
“I promise everything will be fine,” the woman reassured her, moving as if to turn away, and then she paused. “My name is Indie. Yours?”
“Neveah,” she exhaled.
“I’ll go get my boys and my husband to help. You keep looking. Meet back here when the bells sound three times?”
“Yeah,” she called over her shoulder, already disappearing into the crowds.
***
Sef sat in the shade behind one of the market stalls, happily drawing pictures in the dirt with a stick.She drew her house, she drew herself and her mani standing beside it…and then after a moment’s hesitation she drew her father sailing away from them across the ocean.
Humming happily to herself, she giggled as she drew a bird on her mani’s head.
She couldn’t wait until her mani came back, and then she would show her mani the picture!
Where was her mani?
Sef looked quickly around.
“Mani?” She shrugged. She would keep adding to her drawing until her mani came back, and then she would show her the drawing.
Maybe she could get her mani to smile again.
“Hello?” a small voice made her jump. She looked up from her drawing, and saw a boy about her age.
“Hi!” she smiled at him. “Do you want to be friends? Look at my drawing! My name’s Sef, what’s your name?”
The boy sat down next to her. “What is it?” he tilted his head to the side, staring at the drawing.
Sef was offended. How could he not see, what she had very plainly illustrated? “That’s my house,” she pointed at her house. Obviously. “That’s me, that’s my mahnith, and…” her voice trailed off and got softer as she pointed at her pani in the boat. “That’s my pani.”
“Why is he on a boat?” the boy squinted.
“Because he left me and my mani,” Sef said, matter-of-factly. “What’s your name?” she asked again.
“I’m Lilitu,” he said. “My pani left too…so did my mani. They didn’t want me.”
Sef scooted closer to him.
“Do you want to be friends?” she asked again.
A big smile crossed Lilitu’s face, and he nodded. Sef wrapped her arms around him, pulling him close.
Her first friend. After a moment, he hugged her back, too.
Sef pulled away. “How old are you? My birthday is next week, and I’m turning five,” she held up all five fingers for effect.
“My birthday’s next week, too!” Lilitu’s eyes shone. “I’m turning….six!”
“Do you want to make a drawing too?” Sef asked him, tucking her troublesome hair behind her ear.
Lilitu nodded, and then his face fell. “I don’t have a stick.”
Sef broke the stick in half, and handed the bigger half to Lilitu. “Now you do.”
Lilitu put an arm around her shoulders. “I’m glad we’re friends,” he said, and then he started drawing in the dirt.
Me too, Sef smiled to herself.
“What are you drawing?” she looked over his shoulder.
“That’s the Farnbron Brook,” Lilitu said, pointing at a long line he’d carved into the dust. He pointed at a small bundle. “That’s me. When I was little my parents left me there. I was sick. They couldn’t take care of me.” And then he pointed to a stick figure beside him. “That’s my brother Cassian. He found me and now I live with his family! And the Great One made me get better! ” his smile showed the gaps in his teeth.
Sef smiled too. “I don’t have any siblings. It’s just me and my mani.”
A nagging feeling started to grow in the back of her mind, causing her to look up again.
Where was her mani?
***
Cassian wanted to punch something.
Or sink to his knees in the dirt and sob.
He wasn’t sure which.
His mani had found him and told him to take his brother Lilitu and search for a missing girl…
So far he’d not only done absolutely nothing-the girl was still missing, but he also managed to lose Lilitu!
Please please please be here, he broke into a run, trying to outrun time itself.
He had to find Lilitu before his mani found out he’d lost his little brother, or worse, before the Pythonos found him.
If the Pythonos found a lone child…there’s no telling what they’d do. The cruel snakes enjoyed the pain of the weak and helpless, and Lilitu was exactly that. Cass shuddered as the telltale smell of the Pythonos wafted through the market: the smell of death, of pain, of evil.
Lilitu couldn’t defend himself…he was still learning to walk with his club foot, and the fever he’d come to them with had taken its toll, although he had made a miraculous recovery. He was thin and frail and-goodness, he was only a child!
Cassian let out a curse.
He was almost twelve years old…how could he be so irresponsible?
He was beginning to think that he’d never find Lilitu, when suddenly he rounded a corner and there he was, sitting in the dirt in the shade of a cart, drawing with a stick as if he didn’t have a care in the world.
Classic Lilitu, he rolled his eyes.
“Lilitu!” he breathed a sigh of relief, feeling tears of joy prick his eyes. And then he noticed the girl sitting next to him. Dark hair, green highlights…could it be-
“Hi! I’m Sef,” the girl said, smiling at him. “Do you want to be friends?”
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333Awwwwww, that is so cute!! I like how you’re connecting the families in this chapter.
“Hi!” she smiled at him. “Do you want to be friends? Look at my drawing! My name’s Sef, what’s your name?”
The boy sat down next to her. “What is it?” he tilted his head to the side, staring at the drawing.
Sef was offended. How could he not see, what she had very plainly illustrated? “That’s my house,” she pointed at her house. Obviously. “That’s me, that’s my mahnith, and…” her voice trailed off and got softer as she pointed at her pani in the boat. “That’s my pani.”
“Why is he on a boat?” the boy squinted.
“Because he left me and my mani,” Sef said, matter-of-factly.
I love this whole moment!! Literally, Sef’s reaction to Lilitu’s “What is it?” is gold!! 😍❤️
...processing my next response...may take a few hours...
#CassianIsTheBestXD
Awwww, so cute <333
I didn’t know Sef and Lilitu knew each other that long!
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#HugLeontooAwesome! I love it!!The way Sef makes friends, that is so classic little kid, and I just love their interaction! It’s so perfect! The only thing I would say was when it said Cassian “ran, trying to outrun himself” I would use the word, “sprinted,” “bolted,” etc. Otherwise it’s a repeat that kinda grates for people like me. Otherwise, Awesome job!
You’re right, it does come across as a bit extreme. But Kratos was/is a representation of every Andromedan race, and it’s showing how EVERYONE treats Paynes. Paynes aren’t even seen as “people” anymore (think WWII during the holocaust, except there aren’t any sympathizers). I can make him less…idk, happy that this is happening, but it is the norm and it would be accurate to assume that this is how everyone treats them.
Okay, that should work, as long as you’re consistent about it.
I do have one more question regarding this. If the Andromedans so universally despise and hate Paynes, then where do you get the people who are willing to marry a human and become Paynes themselves?
When Kaden walks into the room, he literally doesn’t want to be there and is having second thoughts:
Fair enough.
It’s not an example because Cassian and Azazel are Paynes themselves. If they weren’t Paynes, this would complicate things XD
lol. That should probably be mentioned though. Same for Neveah and Sef I suppose?
And yeah, Livia is first introduced through Lilitu’s POV. But she doesn’t get a full POV until much later.
Yeah, that should work fine.
But wait a second…
Livia is an Aquino, right…
…which would make her an example of an Andromedan that isn’t as bad as Kratos?
(I swear I’m not just trying to poke holes in this for fun!)
I’m doing a few chapters from Neveah’s POV, since in the early beginning Sef isn’t as much of a main character (she’s only 4 atm). But since Sef is still in the picture it shouldn’t be too confusing.
Yeah, I was basically counting Neveah and Sef chapters as the same thing, so that would also work fine, I’m sure.
Anyways, here we go on to chapter 3.
I think this is another good chapter. I don’t have much specific feedback, though.
Lilitu couldn’t defend himself…he was still learning to walk with his club foot
I don’t think you ever specifically say how he got a club foot, though I assume it is just a natural deformation? It might still be good to mention it somewhere, even if it’s later on.
I think these first chapters work really well as an introduction. None of them feel rushed, but you explain how Lilitu got abandoned, Sef’s father leaving, Cassian finding Lilitu, and Sef and Lilutu meeting, which from my estimation covers most of the introduction you need to do before things really get rolling. So, yeah, nice job so far!
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Her father wouldn’t meet her eyes. And in that instant she knew.
Her father didn’t love her.
Sooo I get this weird feeling about Nico. I’m not entirely convinced he doesn’t love them, nor do I know why he left – which means I can’t figure out his position at all XD
He doesn’t give them an excuse for leaving and we don’t see a reason for it. If he is actually a bad father, you could give a taste of: lukewarm love, deceptive behavior, excuses, selfishness, etc. Did he fight with his wife? Was he distant? There is almost always a sign before the storm.
However Sef and her mom react in surprise. And that’s why I’m not sure about him. Because only a truly loving father would be able to shock them so fully, without leaving a bad taste from previous bad signs.
I mean there are probably exceptions irl, but that’s my first thought. Especially since Sef’s mom is surprised, and she’s a fully discerning adult.
If Nico left them for a different reason – like if he had to – I’m not sure why he didn’t tell them.
The silence closed in around her.
You could clarify this is Neveah right away, because I was very confused at first XD I thought it was still Sef.
The vacant space next to her felt like a vacancy in her heart. A hole that could never be filled.
Because it was.
The hole could never be filled, because it was filled? Slight confusion here, but I think you’ll fix it easily 😛
"Infinity is the epitomy of manhood"
Aww, I love that chapter. Sef and Lilitu are adorable.
The pen is mightier than the sword… but I still want a sword.
Ok, Jonas has a point, though he really does seem to be poking holes just for fun. lol. (I would be scared to death if he found my WIP, but then again the help would be gladly accepted after i stopped being a little frustrated. lol.)
He does have some good points though.
Also, from the perspective of someone who doesn’t know the full story and really is like a reader, I would say that I am still super confused on the whole racial prejudice thing, intermarriage, human vs. not. stuff. I would really like to see it flushed out a little more, preferably in chapter 1, 2, or the prologue even. By chapter 3 I would like to know what’s going on with the world so I can start focusing on the characters. does that make sense?
And Whaley is right too. There is a little gappy confusion in there with Nico. Is he good or bad? I know you probably want to save that info for later, but because you know, his wife and child need to react accordingly to what everything has been like in the home before then. and, if he is good and leaving to protect them or something he must have a VERY SUPER GOOD reason for NOT TELLING them.
Oh yeah, knowing whats wrong with his foot would be nice, but that could be explained in a later chapter. It doesn’t have to happen right in this chapter.
Sorry I hit you with all of this. sometimes it takes me a minute to think through what I’m going to say based in the info I have. 😀
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