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…@savannah_grace2009
Oh wow, a lot happened, and I’m overwhelmed just reading this conversation š I can’t address everything y’all and Sara said, but I have a few small thoughts.
About the Pythonos’ redeemability:
I didnāt mean to imply that they canāt be saved! I just meant that they wouldnāt have any draw to be saved, so they can never be saved on their own. It would take God performing a miracle and doing His thing to draw them back to them.
In my mind, any saved soul is a miracle, and it has NOTHING to do with the person’s abilities, it’s all by the power of God. We are extremely sinful and darkened beings, and thus, do we have any draw to be saved? No.
In the bible, it describes us humans as already dead because of our sins. Jesus was the only human able to rise from the grave, because he was not utterly depraved. Can dead hearts choose God? No. God has to literally breathe the Holy Spirit into us and bring us back to life. And to be honest, I think that is the most beautiful part of redemption.
So to say a Pythonos can’t be saved because they don’t want to be saved… that is a parallel to any real human being because we areĀ just as badĀ as the Pythonos irl. Yes, a Pythonos’ redemption would be a miracle, but it would be realistic to how redemption works.
So that’s my two cents XD Of course you can choose to destroy Cass and that is also applicable to some people irl š„²ā¤ļø Lemme read the character-arc message you wrote and I’ll get back to you…
āEverything is a mountainā
I’m glad you’re feeling better btw! ā¤ļø And I promise I am not thinking badly of your writing behind your back. I sometimes feel that way about my own writing, and I have self-esteem/anxiety issues myself about being secretly hated. I think you are a very capable writer on KP and definitely braver than me for sharing this project.
Oki oki oki back to story thoughts XD
Good arc for Lilitu š I think if you make sure to include his need for grace, and the idea that hey, other people are sinful too! You can’t be perfect in this life!
Lilituās character shows that we donāt HAVE to give in to our flesh, we donāt have to give into temptation anymore
I do think this might be too unhelpful of a revelation for Lilitu.
He thinks “I can never measure up to people’s expectations.” To tell him, “hey, you can live up to people’s expectations if you try hard enough and don’t give in to the flesh” doesn’t dig into his real problem.
His real problem is his need for societal acceptance through achievements, like appearing good-behavior all the time, or being a pure-blooded species rather than a Payne. He seems to feel good when others see him as good. Telling him he can do better won’tĀ change the fact that he has messed up values.
He needs to be told that to God, every person is of the same value. Whether you are a murderer, a Payne, or a baby, you are still valued for following the right path.
It’s kind of like giving advice to a person who wants to work out and… idk, develop abs. š They might be really insecure about their weakness and they only feel accepted once they get those muscles. What should you say when their work isn’t paying off? Don’t tell them to work harder. Tell them they will be valued, no matter what their body looks like at the end of the day.Ā ThenĀ help them work out.
Hope this helps! (And now I’m wondering about my own personal exercise… š¤£)
āEverything is a mountainā
I’m so confused now.š
Naturally Eloy is angry at his brother for everything he did, so he builds up anger, and then instead of stepping in front of Cass to die in his place, he HESITATES. So the opportunity is lost and Cass dies, when Eloy could have saved him.
So now Eloy has to live with the guilt that he should have and could have saved his brother.
WHY MUST YOU BREAK ELOY LIKE THIS? HE’S MY FAVORITE. I LOVE HIM. ššš(By the way, have you read Alcatraz vs. the Evil Librarians?)
Also, Cassian? If Sef dies because of you, I will be hoping you die with misery and regret. (Last time I was hoping that would happen, the character was miserable and regretful, and I changed my mind and wanted him redeemed.š)
NO I AM NOT KILLING ELOY NO NO NO
Thank you. Eloy and Hanna had better survive. I don’t care what you do to the others, but spare those two! (Well, I would be sad if the others died, but less sad.)
WAIT actually Cassian is still dying nvm
I forgot about that
You…forgot that a major character was going to die? How?š¤£š¤£š¤£ I’ve forgotten subplots before, but not a death. (Mainly because I’m way too excited about writing said death.)
Communist jokes arenāt funny unless everyone gets them.
Poor Cassian though.
Communist jokes arenāt funny unless everyone gets them.
Okay, critique time! Starting in chapter 14.
I take it this chapter is before some of the ones you already wrote, since it shows them preparing to leave the house? Or are they moving a second time?
Sef knew she was only moving a few blocks to the east, away from the border where crime was high and the Pythonos frequented often. Driven to desperation, Sefās neighbors would do anything for a single agate, let alone two hundred sapphiresā¦
Like turning in my sister.
It’s possible I missed something, but why is it that the Pythonos would want to take Hanna specifically? All of them are Paynes. (Btw, Neveah is a Pitt, right? So that means that Hanna is genetically either a Pitt or a Pythonos. Which is it? I know she would still be considered a Payne, just because Neveah already was.)
at least until Hanna had her second birthday and it was safe again.
The Pythonos just take any Payne baby under two? That seems a bit odd. If they suddenly see a two-year-old walking around, wouldn’t they realize that it had been hidden from them for the previous two years? That would make it seem like their rule is “we’ll take any baby under two we find, unless your clever enough to hide them for those two years!”
But it was true. Everyone seemed to forget about Eloy, although he was the most unique in the family. Cass and Lilitu looked almost exactly alikeāsame icy blue eyes, same golden brown hair, same tan skin with blue freckles. They both took after Azazel. Eloy, however, was a different breed.
Wait, why would Cassian and Lilitu look the same? Lilitu was adopted!
āHonored Tlavian,ā Azazel began, using the term for the Great Oneās Son
That is a really awkward interjection. Obviously you need to let the reader know what that name means, but this doesn’t work very well. You could just say “Honored Tlavian, Son of the Great One.” It would sound more formal, but I think that works okay for a prayer.
Okay, that’s all the comments I have on chapters.
Eloy is 15 (i think)
Oh! Somehow I thought he was the oldest!
I get it, but I have better ways to make things very very sad than killing people off. Sometimes itās worse to have people live than die in a story (like living with guiltā¦hehehe). So donāt worry, it will still be sad!!!!!
To me, that’s a very different kind of sad. A good death is sad but beautiful and hopeful. Living with guilt is depressing sad.
Btw, a quick question. Before you had this separated into two (or was it three) separate books, with the second book focusing on Ottoline, Marcurious and [SPOILER]. Is that still going to be the case?
š° Fantasy Writer
āØ Magic System Creator
š Character RPer
š Appreciator of BooksI take it this chapter is before some of the ones you already wrote, since it shows them preparing to leave the house? Or are they moving a second time?
Huh? I’m confused. They’re moving a second time. They never moved the first time, because they already lived in Wrallethom Heights before the Pythonos made everyone else move there too. So this is the first time Sef has ever moved.
Itās possible I missed something, but why is it that the Pythonos would want to take Hanna specifically? All of them are Paynes. (Btw, Neveah is a Pitt, right? So that means that Hanna is genetically either a Pitt or a Pythonos. Which is it? I know she would still be considered a Payne, just because Neveah already was.)
They don’t want to take Hanna specifically. Sef knows that if the greedy neighbors find a baby, they’ll alert the Pythonos and get two hundred sapphires. So they have to keep Hanna safe from the neighbors.
The Pythonos just take any Payne baby under two? That seems a bit odd. If they suddenly see a two-year-old walking around, wouldnāt they realize that it had been hidden from them for the previous two years? That would make it seem like their rule is āweāll take any baby under two we find, unless your clever enough to hide them for those two years!ā
ThatĀ isĀ their rule. I have reasons why, but I have to develop it a little bit more.
Wait, why would Cassian and Lilitu look the same? Lilitu was adopted!
*facepalms six times in a row* ugh. Well that’s embarrasing!!!!!!!! Why didn’t I think of that?!? UGH Sorry :/ I will fix that!
That is a really awkward interjection. Obviously you need to let the reader know what that name means, but this doesnāt work very well. You could just say āHonored Tlavian, Son of the Great One.ā It would sound more formal, but I think that works okay for a prayer.
Ohh okay.
Oh! Somehow I thought he was the oldest!
Nope! Do I need to make that clearer in the book??
To me, thatās a very different kind of sad. A good death is sad but beautiful and hopeful. Living with guilt is depressing sad.
Well…..IĀ likeĀ depressing and sad.
I think there’s something wrong with me…because when I write things, IĀ cannotĀ no matter how hard I try, write a happy scene! They’re all depressing and dark. And the weird thing is, it doesn’t bother me.
Of course, Eloy’s character arc leads to him accepting forgiveness, even though he feels he doesn’t deserve it. He still regrets his decision, but he learns to forgive and be forgiven. So that part isn’t too sad…right?
Btw, a quick question. Before you had this separated into two (or was it three) separate books, with the second book focusing on Ottoline, Marcurious and [SPOILER]. Is that still going to be the case?
Yeahh I think so.
I still have to plot that out, but that’s the vision!
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333Iām glad youāre feeling better btw! ā¤ļø And I promise I am not thinking badly of your writing behind your back. I sometimes feel that way about my own writing, and I have self-esteem/anxiety issues myself about being secretly hated. I think you are a very capable writer on KP and definitely braver than me for sharing this project.
Awww you are so sweet! You’re elite Whaley XD XD
WHATTT? You could NEVER be secretly hated, everyone loves you here! And if you are anything like you are here, irl, I would love hanging out with you!!!!!!!
But yeah I struggle with that too :/ My intrusive thoughts come back and I overthink a lot and are like “everybody hates you” for literally no reason!!!! AHHH
Good arc for Lilitu š I think if you make sure to include his need for grace, and the idea that hey, other people are sinful too! You canāt be perfect in this life!
Okay great!
I do think this might be too unhelpful of a revelation for Lilitu.
He thinks āI can never measure up to peopleās expectations.ā To tell him, āhey, you can live up to peopleās expectations if you try hard enough and donāt give in to the fleshā doesnāt dig into his real problem.
His real problem is his need for societal acceptance through achievements, like appearing good-behavior all the time, or being a pure-blooded species rather than a Payne. He seems to feel good when others see him as good. Telling him he can do betterĀ wonātĀ change the fact that he has messed up values.
He needs to be told that to God, every person is of the same value. Whether you are a murderer, a Payne, or a baby, you are still valued for following the right path.
I was kind of basing Lilitu off myself. Because for me, I often struggle with giving into temptation, and then I beat myself up about it afterwards because I felt like I just couldn’t help it, but I should be able to resist it! But those verses spoke out to me that 1. I’m valued and God loves meĀ no matter what and 2. God helps me through temptation!
I didn’t mean that Lilitu would be like “ohhh I need to do better and then my life will be fixed!” I meant that he’d be more like “Even when I mess up, God still loves me. But God will help me and teach me to live the way He wants me to live! It’s not an instant thing, but every day He teaches me to be more like Him. It’s a process, but its worth it. I’m not hopeless, or a mistake.”
Is that better?
And now Iām wondering about my own personal exerciseā¦ š¤£
Me too lolLukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333Huh? Iām confused. Theyāre moving a second time. They never moved the first time, because they already lived in Wrallethom Heights before the Pythonos made everyone else move there too. So this is the first time Sef has ever moved.
Oh, they didn’t?
They donāt want to take HannaĀ specifically. Sef knows that if the greedy neighbors find a baby, theyāll alert the Pythonos and get two hundred sapphires. So they have to keep Hanna safe from the neighbors.
I meant specifically as opposed to Neveah and Sef as well? Why just the baby? (You kind of answered that already though.)
Nope! Do I need to make that clearer in the book??
No, I think it was just an odd assumption on my part.
Of course, Eloyās character arc leads to him accepting forgiveness, even though he feels he doesnāt deserve it. He still regrets his decision, but he learns to forgive and be forgiven. So that part isnāt too sadā¦right?
True.
š° Fantasy Writer
āØ Magic System Creator
š Character RPer
š Appreciator of BooksI have read everything you have in the link you posted on your profile. (Up to Chapter 16. Double checking, that is everything you have posted so far, right?)
I was a bit confused at the beginning. Until Sef’s Mani became pregnant, I could not figure out the story’s plot. I first thought this story would be all about Lilitu being a Payne until finally settling on the baby, so I felt a little lost.
I’m also a little confused about all these different races and what they are. I have just been able to pick up that Pythonos are snake-like in speech and their eyes are that way. Are they kind of like Wingfeather Fangs? (Not just in appearance, but also as in how they came to be. Because of Wingfeather and what happened to Lilitu’s biological parents in the prologue, I suspect they are kidnapping children to add to their ranks.) Aquinos seem to be some sort of merfolk, judging by their blue skin and water powers. What are Sef and her Mani supposed to be? How about Lilitu’s adoptive family?
I like how you have Mani and Pani instead of Mommy and Daddy. It was easy to pick up what these words meant and it added some character to your world.
Characters are fine. I would like to know more about what Lilito thinks of Hanna. How does he feel about her also being Payne? I think Eloy might be my favourite so far. I know that feeling of when no one seems to notice you, though I definitely have not had it to that extent.
Yeah, I’ve got to work on that :/
Pythonos are anyone who gives themself to the Master, and they become pure evil.
You are right, they kidnap the vulnerable so that they can be easily influenced and converted to Pythonos.
I haven’t actually posted chapter 16, but I will soon!!!!
Sef and her mani are Paynes. Neveah is pure Pitt, but since she married a human and they had a Payne child, she is a Payne, though she’s genetically a Pitt.
I know my story doesn’t make any sense XD I have a lot of things to work on!
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333@savannah_grace2009 I’d love to see a list of all the species and their abilities/descriptions of them, if you have a master list like that.
I feel like your and @linus-smallprint ‘s creatures kinda inspired my own which I’ve been working on recently.
Where'd I get ya this time? The liver? The kidney? I'm runnin' outta places to put holes in ya.
I have this forum for that if you don’t want to put it here.
I know it says “non-human sentients” but that’s just supposed to mean anything which isn’t just humans under different names/cyborgs
Where'd I get ya this time? The liver? The kidney? I'm runnin' outta places to put holes in ya.
Wellā¦..IĀ likeĀ depressing and sad.
š¤£š¤£š¤£ That made me laugh. I am so concerned about poor Eloy though.
Communist jokes arenāt funny unless everyone gets them.
Hahaha!!
As you should be…
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333Yeah, Iāve got to work on that :/
Well, that’s the whole point of making several drafts. Each one you can learn from and improve on the next. One of my drafts for TNPT was confusing like this as well. You will figure this out, don’t let the fact it is confusing right now discourage you. Your story is showing potential, especially now that you have the plot established. Keep it up!
I havenāt actually posted chapter 16, but I will soon!!!!
Heh heh. I like being a sneaky time-traveller. (Huh, apparently we Canadians spell this word with two ‘l’s. Good to know.)
So what is a Pitt?
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