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Jonathamber?
I like Amnathan too.
What makes you say that?? lol
The first book… ?
"Don't shine so that others can see you. Shine so that through you, others can see Him." ~ C.S.L.
Haha!
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
I was telling my (aspiring pilot) brother about this book and he brought up a good point. The US Air Force has trackers on all of their planes. Why would this government, with all its advanced technology, not have a way to track the Wraith?
?For our Blessed Lady's sake, bring us in good ale!?
Very sorry for not replying soon. Work picked up again, and I’ve been wasting the free time I have.
Wow!! That was fast!
Heh heh. I had a lot of free time to read during long drives.
I think we both have different beliefs on this in general, but if there are some things you want to talk about, then I’m willing to listen. I think it may end up one of those impasses like my belief in Christian’s using violence. But, I’m also very willing to listen if you have some things you want to mention.
Well, I’m still stuck on if Christians should be violent, and to what extent. I know I said I would get my thoughts organized and tell you where I land on the issue of Christians and violence. This is taking longer than I thought and has led me down a whole rabbit trail to better understand the law, what Jesus means when he says in Matthew 5:17-20 and how that fits with things like Acts 10:13. I’m currently reading a book called The Law of Christ by Charles Leiter, and am finding it quite insightful as it is answering some of my biggest questions. So I am thankful for our disagreement on that issue as it is pushing me to further develop my theology.
Lord willing, I will get to giving you my thoughts on Christians and violence one day. I literally have your friend’s essay printed off and sitting on my desk. You may have me partially convinced on that issue, but I’m not sure yet.
Well, to start off with, Romans 13 tells us that we are to ‘be subject to governing authorities’ and that the government. Even tyrants and oppressors get their power from God, like Nebuchadnezzar (Jeremiah 25:9), and Israel was not to fight against this king, but to seek the prosperity of his kingdom (Jeremiah 29:7). And this was still for Israel as a physical kingdom! So even if there is an evil man in charge abusing his power, we are still subject to him. I don’t believe we have the authority to rebel against him. To rebel against him would be to rebel against God for putting him there.
I believe that Christians should obey God first and foremost, of course, and if a ruler tries to force us to go against His commandments, we should not listen to them. This is why our church refused to close its doors during COVID and why our pastor was sent to prison. But I don’t see any indication in the Bible to fight the government. There are times to flee, or help others flee, and times to stand, but never to fight back physically.
Also, looking at the language used in the New Testament, we are told to stand firm and resist (Ephesians 6:11-13; 1 Corinthians 16:13), but I do not believe any verses are telling us to go advance and attack. Though there are verses that call us to fight in general (1 Timothy 6:12, 4:7), these verses also all apply to Spiritual warfare. I believe God wants us to stand and fight for a spiritual kingdom, not a physical one, and in the end, He is the one who will destroy our enemies, both physical and spiritual.
I don’t want to force these on you, but these are the main reasons why I believe it isn’t right for the Christian to rebel. I am willing to listen to why you believe it is right. These issues of rebellion and violence have been debated by Christians for a long time. Perhaps your argument on this will provoke me to pause and think about some things I haven’t before.
Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to see the stars.
It was a prototype being sent there for them to look at. It wasn’t actually ready to be in the field.
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
Haha, no problem. Things have been wild down here too.
Ah yes, long drives are very helpful. Especially three-day long drives like we just took. Literally started going through and just reading ever KP forum ever.
Anyhow. Rabbit trail.
Aha, thought it would be that verse. Well, here’s my stance. What their government is doing is absolutely evil and against God’s laws. They are taking away and abusing the children that God has given into the hands of these fathers and mothers and commanded them to nurture, raise, and train up. (plus they did kinda ban the church and the Bible since that is “rebellious rhetoric and cult activity”)
So, it is time for them to take a stand and fight back to protect their families and to uphold God’s laws. I think we kind of agree on this point. (We at least agree that it’s unbiblical for them to obey)
Well, if they are going to make any kind of stand, they need to defend and attack. Breaking that up is getting into teeny tiny semantics. No government ever said “Well, you only resisted, you never attacked…” They just said, “y’all rebelled, y’all are getting the death sentence,” (most often anyhow)I mean, the minute they fight back, they must also commit to fighting forward or else they have just written up a death warrant for their entire families. Governments hate rebels and are pretty ruthless when it comes to them. Whether you fight back or forward, you still fought, and it’s still all part of armed rebellion.
I feel like I’m bad at explaining this…. is it making sense? Or am I just making the world more confusing at the moment….. XD
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
Lol. Thanks for mentioning it though.
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
I feel like I’m bad at explaining this…. is it making sense? Or am I just making the world more confusing at the moment….. XD
I think I get what you are saying. Christians should rebel and take on the government if it is the only means to protect their families. That was also an argument in your friend’s essay on violence: Fathers should fight to protect their families, which they are commanded to do in 1 Timothy 5:8.
One thing to be careful of, though, is that ends don’t justify means. Just because an action protects someone from evil does not mean it is good.
I don’t want to get to much into this because from what I see in your writing and how you have reacted to mine, I can tell you already believe this. You didn’t have any problem with Alan choosing not to use magic at the cost of his father’s life. In The Veil of the Night, Joseph didn’t turn his back on Christ even when they tried to force him by torturing Beric. In this book, Michael refused to let anything about the rebels slip while Jonathan was being beaten. In none of these situations was it right for the characters to give in, even if it meant protecting those they loved.
So my question is, why would you say that rebellion is a justifiable means of protecting others?
Also, a question about your world that you might have answered in the book and I might have missed, but why dosen’t the church flee the country? Is it because there is nowhere to run to? Are they convinced they need stay to help those still in the cities? Or some other reason?
Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to see the stars.
I’m not going to dig myself too far into this convo. But the way I see it, the government is torturing the inhabitants of the city. They’re literally killing kids. So… I don’t know what to say, other than to pose the same situation in front of you and ask you what you would do. There’s no peaceful way to deal with this, and people are dying.
I don’t mean to compare this fictional story with WWII, because it’s very different. But it’s kind of the same moral question. If you were German Christian during the Holocaust, would you submit under the government, or would you illegally help, even fight for the victims?
I am out of signature ideas
If you don’t think it’s a comparable scenario, I’d be curious to know why.
I am out of signature ideas
I think @whalekeeper mentioned something that is pretty valid and I agree with, so I’ll let you answer her before I pose more thoughts.
As for the church leaving… they did. They left the city, but there is no place to run to, and while they did go underground, there is still the fact that 1. the will be discovered, it’s only a matter of time, and 2. evil is running rampant and unchecked.
One thing I would actually suggest you do and I think it could help with your books, with your questions on my book, and even the whole violence argument. Read the Crown and Covenant Trilogy. I don’t know what shipping is like in Canada, but thrift books is a great place to get stuff, and there’s always fallbacks like Amazon. I’ll add links for both.
The series is written by a historian and follows a Covanantor family in Scotland during the crown and covenant wars in. (for background, our family is covanantor more than we are protestant. Covanantors lean more toward the way we, and i think you from what I know, believe)
Anyhow, the thing was, the Crown banned the worship of God outside of regulations set by the government, and the church said no thanks, and met in secret. Then the king sent his dragoons out to start shooting up church meetings, burning homes, attacking civilians, etc. etc. The argument of the series is, when do we take up arms against another man, and does that change if that other man happens to be our king?
Very well done, and I think you would really like it and find it quite insightful.
Thriftbooks is listing the third book twice under two different names…. odd. Anyhow, it’s just a trilogy.
h ttps://www.thriftbooks.com/series/crown-and-covenant/42058/
First book on amazon
h ttps://www.amazon.com/Duncans-War-Crown-Covenant-1/dp/0875527426/146-3043223-0925244?pd_rd_w=91BwB&content-id=amzn1.sym.2cd14f8d-eb5c-4042-b934-4a05eafd2874&pf_rd_p=2cd14f8d-eb5c-4042-b934-4a05eafd2874&pf_rd_r=4GXHBEAPG0NMTHS2VZXP&pd_rd_wg=4ENIQ&pd_rd_r=8f479233-5248-4dae-b72a-928f6458bfa5&pd_rd_i=0875527426&psc=1
And if you like these, Faith and Freedom is about the descendants of the living members of the original family and takes place during the American Revelation
h ttps://www.amazon.com/Faith-Freedom-Trilogy-3-Set/dp/1596382384?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.mdtC4i__nC5WbRSsIFgiXAKNYkwgPLjyYY5fyku9aqOOeLGP9sXEbxjj8AhKNpZQkZIq181qVW1krBND3J0tSPTDUWzs9PQ5jngpmZHM00bDe3alcE7_KHCU6DS3_GDvuRA6moeZ07aIDqYm1EGH7sFA1kDNglmOAHMkIf42cHSJa_R297D2rqSyO6vJFXqt4vxs_08CpGg9lNLauweQfTWzf8Dq0ZWJwHCeBxBCy48.QMsk-uWk95IssTITWV17yG6faPZQz4V1qRVZ7758i-U&dib_tag=AUTHOR
Anyhow.
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
@koshka @keilah-h @elishavet-pidyon @theducktator @grcr @whalekeeper @power @hybridlore @liberty
TWO NEW CHAPTERS. HOPEFULLY MORE LATER
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
@koshka @keilah-h @elishavet-pidyon @theducktator @grcr @whalekeeper @power @hybridlore @liberty
ONE MORE NEW CHAPTER
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
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