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@ellette-giselle ohhhh ok!
cool emblem too!
"When in doubt, eat cheese crackers."-me to my charries who don't even know about cheese crackers
@koshka @keilah-h @elishavet-pidyon @theducktator @grcr @whalekeeper @power @hybridlore @linus-smallprint @liberty
FIRST TWO CHAPTERS!!
The Numbered and the Nameless.docx
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
Exciting! I’ll have to go back and look at the moodboards in a minute, but the link’s not working.
"Don't shine so that others can see you. Shine so that through you, others can see Him." ~ C.S.L.
Oh joy! Oh exultation!
I haven’t been able to really look at this thread in a bit. (Been up to my elbows in royal icing.) Now oh!
I’m so excited. It’s this book! Hooray!
I love Cassion and Rory’s boards. They’re perfect.
Do you have a scene with sliding around on sock feet? It would be delightfully light-hearted for a book with heavy themes. A break from the danger and all. *nods vigorously*
You have listened to fears, child. Come, let me breathe on you... Are you brave again? -Aslan
Well, I’m back from vacation and I have finished your book!
Sorry for the lack of comments. Often, while I was reading it, I didn’t even have Wi-fi or Data, so most of my feedback will be my answers to your questions I found on page 15 of this forum.
Overall, it was an exciting story with interesting characters. I can see why your brothers are quite into this.
However, there was one concern that kept me from properly enjoying the book, and I may not come back to read the second one because of it. This thing was the idea of a Christian Rebellion. I don’t believe this to be Biblical and was disturbed by it. If you would like to discuss this with me, I would be willing to.
Anyway, I will still try to get you proper feedback to your book, and will begin working on answering your questions. I will try to get that to you soon!
Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to see the stars.
@koshka @keilah-h @elishavet-pidyon @theducktator @grcr @whalekeeper @power @hybridlore @linus-smallprint @liberty
For anyone having trouble with the link, try this.
https://1drv.ms/w/c/9ff685038eab87a7/EZpJYAN7WMFClAq3I3Au900Bqv9Jwzbpj8dVtZtnGjUIRA?e=Waa6sd
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
Someone has been snooping. SHHHH!
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
Wow!! That was fast!
Okay awesome! I’d love to see your answers to the questions!
Hmm, I guessed you might be the one to bring that up. I think we both have different beliefs on this in general, but if there are some things you want to talk about, then I’m willing to listen. I think it may end up one of those impasses like my belief in Christian’s using violence. But, I’m also very willing to listen if you have some things you want to mention.
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
I’m trying to fill out these feedback questions before I lose track of what’s happening. *Types furiously*
Someone suggested I cut the last section of the blurb and leave it with the part about Jonathan’s friendship because it has more of a cliffhanger. What do you think?
I say remove the part about tragedy striking, and only mention the possibility of tragedy. That way the reader goes in knowing the plot could go good or bad; it’s an “either-or.”
I am out of signature ideas
Characters:
~Which character(s) did you find the most compelling/relatable/believable and why?
Some of the characters had very compelling characteristics, like Jim’s human decency and Evan with his likable dialogue. They all served their roles and were decently memorable. Jonathan was my favorite because he was the POV character, during his younger years especially.
~ Were there any character that need to be more engaging? If so, how would be some good ways for me to do that?
I felt like each rebel has only a few words to describe them. We know they are Christian, we know their specialty, and one or two personality traits. I’m not supposed to know each character intimately, sure. But I want to feel their layers; know more of their appearance and behavior.
~Were the characters believable?
See above
~ Were there any characters you wanted to see more of?
See above ?
~Was Jonathan an interesting character, despite several irritating faults?
He was interesting! I’m still theorizing which of his traits you purposefully plotted around, and which ones you accidentally came across by proximity. (I tend to see character arcs no one else sees, and that’s a problem sometimes, lol.)
~ Did the characters have good, strong motivations?
Yep. I would have liked to see Jonathan act on his motives some more, but that’s a side note. He still worked as a protagonist.
~ Did the characters who died have completed arcs?
I agree with Keilah that the dead characters didn’t have arcs, and that was fine. It wasn’t like a lot of characters died.
Storyline:
~ Was the plot solid?
It worked!
~ Did the pacing feel consistent throughout the book? If not, where did it lag or feel dull?
If anything, it was fast.
~Was there anything that seemed unbelievable or forced?
Nothing I haven’t mentioned.
~ Were there any plot twists or surprises that stood out to you?
I didn’t see Michael as 314 so that worked well! Looking back on it, you were trying to convince us 314 was dead through the comments. Maybe that had something to do with it. XD
~looking back, does it make sense that Michael was 314? Or did that feel forced?
It made sense!
~ Was the ending fitting and satisfying? (As much as a book 1 ending can be.)
It was satisfactory. I’m guessing you want to keep the bigger plot points for later in the series.
~ Were any parts of the story confusing or difficult to follow?
The worldbuilding was vague so sometimes I struggled to connect with the setting. Why is the world like this? What is everyday life like? Part of the appeal in a dystopia is the fleshed out environment, and that could have been developed more. I want to know about the city. Even if you want to focus on a small part, write vivid and immersive.
~ Were there any unresolved plot threads you wish had been dealt with in this
book?None that I can think of.
~Are there any unresolved plot threads I need to make sure to wrap up in the next book?
Can’t think of any.
~ Was the balance between action, dialogue and description smooth in the story?
We’ve already talked about the descriptions, and I was confused as to why other readers said you over-described. So I thought about it some more and something clicked!
You do technically over-describe. But it feels unsatisfying to me because of the way you’re forcing things on the reader without demonstrating them. Lemme show you what I mean. Here’s a paragraph from the first page of The Numbered and the Nameless (the latest thing I read):
…
618 stood in the third rank, fifth from the left, a sixteen-year-old testament to the system’s terrifying efficiency. His back was ramrod straight, his gaze fixed on the grimy wall beyond the parade ground, his breath a controlled, shallow rhythm. Like every boy around him, his black uniform was pressed and spotless, his movements honed to automatic perfection, his expression a mask of drilled stoicism. Yet beneath the disciplined shell, a flicker of dissent burned. It was a persistent nagging, a faint spark of conscience that refused to be extinguished by the decades of extinguishing. It was a dangerous anomaly, questioning side, risking everything he had been taught to be.
…
Do you see how much stuff is shoved into this paragraph? It summarizes 618’s character with a ton of dramatic adjectives and phrases; I italicized them. We get all this information in one paragraph, and it’s too dense. We’re forced to accept that all these adjectives apply to 618, even though we haven’t gotten to see his face for ourselves and come to these conclusions by ourselves.
On the other hand, the descriptions are also vague because they aren’t immersive. What am I supposed to picture from “his movements honed to automatic perfection”? I can think of a few things. But I don’t know what specific movements 618 makes. It’s like if you told me to picture a building without describing it to me. How am I supposed to know if it’s a homeless shelter or a Frank Lloyd Wright?
Ultimately, both these problems can be fixed with Show Don’t Tell. You should not say that 618 is a “testament to the system’s efficiency.” The reader needs to realize on their own that 618 is a product of this program. Everything I underlined is stuff you shouldn’t tell the reader outright!
I rewrote this paragraph to give you an idea of how Show Don’t Tell works. Obviously this isn’t the greatest thing I’ve ever written. ? But it might help:
…
618 stood in the third rank, fifth from the left. The young teenager stood ramrod straight, his gaze fixed on the grimy wall beyond the parade ground. Releasing a breath that shook his body in the minutest way, he let his chest rise and fall in a shallow rhythm. His black uniform clung to his shoulders, pressed and spotless from a hot iron, and prepared exactly sixty minutes ago. Every moment, 618 might experience an officer’s roving eyes – but this was an experience he could prepare for in the moments leading up.
As some of his comrades passed in a long line, blocking him from the view of his commanding officer, 618 broke his mask-like expression. Sunlight blazed through the swirling clouds above, and the light was so strong that he couldn’t help but squint. He took a moment to glance at the soldiers to his left and right, and when the group passed him completely, he collected his breath in a fearful gasp and stood straight again.
It felt good to crack out of his shell. Even if the moment did not last.
…
Ignore my clunky word-smithing, haha. Do you see how many of the statements from version 1 are not said, but can be deduced?
~ Any scenes you would want cut?
No.
~Any scenes you would want lengthened?
Nope!
Theology/Message:
~ Any theological concerns for the story?
Not exactly? But I do have something to say about your portrayal of Christianity in relation to Jonathan.
This might be too meta, but stick with me. XD
I’ve noticed a theme in Jonathan. He is always being coersed into social/political groups. As a child, he was forced to follow the country’s rules because that’s what everyone else did. When he joined the gang, he also didn’t want to agree with their values, but eventually changed because he needed their protection. Then he joined a Christian rebel group. Even though they didn’t literally force him, there was an emotional pressure to join their belief system. This is a continuation of Jonathan’s behavior, his status quo. He is always adjusting his mental views under external pressures.
Christianity is not a political “Big Brother” in the sense that Sector 5 is. But the way this story is told, Christianity is definitely an older brother who rolls his eyes and insults you whenever you disagree with what he says.
I know it is supposed to help Jonathan in the long run. My point is, up until… around the capture and interrogation, the story does not paint the rebels in an entirely flattering light. They assume he’ll go to their church meetings and treat him like a lone wolf when he doesn’t like the meetings, they’re always preaching at him, the story acts like he’s stupid for being atheist…
And because we’ve seen nothing but bad from Jonathan getting pressured in the past… this feels wrong. Does that make sense? ?
When does this change for the better, in my opinion? When Jonathan perceives for the first time who is the predator and who is the prey. When the Agents look like the biggest force, and Jonathan could switch values to protect himself but sticks with the rebels anyway, THAT’S the important bit. He makes one of his rare decisions to go against the strongest force’s grain. That’s an arc.
Up until that point, though, I just feel like Jonathan is cornered like a dog, and the story is not kind to him at all. I think Christianity would be so much more powerful if Jonathan was given space and treated like a human with free opinions, instead of being pressured so much.
I will disclaim all of this by saying I am Calvinist, I understand the concept of irresistible grace – but from a storytelling standpoint… you get what I mean? If you don’t agree with anything I said, that’s okay, of course.
~ What would you say my world view was?
Do I need to answer that question? XD
~ What would you say was the message of the story?
Anti-modern government, pro-Christianity. That’s what I gathered from it right away.
~Were the characters’ struggles dealt with effectively?
I haven’t thought enough to answer this yet.
~What are some of the most noticeable political/modern-world-of-today stabs you noticed? ?
Repression of free speech, repression of freedom in general, government malpractice, school systems, over-dependence on technology, workforce mistreatment, nationalism. Familiar dystopian themes.
Extra:
~ What was your favorite part of the book overall? Why?
I liked – agh, I can’t remember which scene it was, but there was a particular fight scene where you kept the pacing consistent but not boring, and it worked super well.
As I mentioned in the document, my favorite part was the first part of Chapter 7. Your description of Jonathan’s shock was really good! That was where the description peaked for me, and it felt really important as its purpose was to justify Jonathan’s emotions in the future. That solidified young Jonathan as my favorite character.
~What was your least favorite part? (From a reader’s prospective) why?
I’ve already expressed my frustrations when Jonathan joined the rebels. ?
~Who was your top favorite character? Why?
Kid Jonathan!
~other favorite characters or honorable mentions?
Evan was the most enjoyable side character. He does not take top, but he takes second.
~Who was your least favorite? (if you have one) Why?
The gang was funny to read about, and I don’t think it was meant to be funny? ? When you’ve read/watched about stuff like this before, any trope-ified features are hard to take seriously.
~Is there anything that you would say needs to be changed?
Your plot works well, the characters logically fall into their roles, and there are points where your descriptions do a great job. Those don’t need to be changed.
My top three notes are Show Don’t Tell, deepen worldbuilding, and solidify some of these character things that aren’t quite realized yet.
These three things are large and I don’t mean to overwhelm you, but you pump out incredibly fast drafts, so it makes sense that developmental editing is needed.
You might find it helpful to look up articles about Show Don’t Tell and start from there. Everything becomes easier once you’ve oiled that writing tool.These are all my personal opinions!
~ What would you say the target audience of this book would be?
Christians.
~ Any other thoughts?
Nope!
I am out of signature ideas
Thank you very much!
That was really helpful about the description thing. I think that makes more sense. I wonder too if I over-did the “buzz” words in dystopian literature because I was trying to cut down on description. XD I’ll totally look at that.
Hmmm, that’s interesting what you are saying aboyt the Christianity thing. See, I feel like they were very welcoming, but Jonathan lone-wolfed himself because he didn’t like them. Michael put the pressure on sure, but he admits that later and it’s a clear flaw. I’m not seeing “But the way this story is told, Christianity is definitely an older brother who rolls his eyes and insults you whenever you disagree with what he says.” I mean, which characters were doing that? Not even Michael. That is def. not how I’m wanting it to come across.Evan might have been forceful, but it fit with his personality in my opinion. Like, if you could find the scenes that are making this seem like what you wrote above and explain why it comes across that way, it might be helpful.
Don’t do that if you don’t have time of course.
Lol, I find the gang funny to write about, so it doesn’t seem odd that you find them funny.
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
@koshka @keilah-h @elishavet-pidyon @theducktator @grcr @whalekeeper @power @hybridlore @liberty
TWO NEW CHAPTERS. Possibly more later.
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
Hooray! Evan got a board! Some of the quotes on Jason’s remind me of my grandfather. He’s an engineer. XD I like Cassion already, though his Romanesque name in a dystopia is messing with my brain. XD With school, work, and dance starting, I likely won’t be as consistent with this book. You may get a week’s worth of comments each Sunday. ?
?For our Blessed Lady's sake, bring us in good ale!?
@theducktator
I’m glad you’re happy with Evan’s board. How is Evan the duck btw?Sounds good! I’ll be looking forward to sunday comments!
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
@koshka @keilah-h @elishavet-pidyon @theducktator @grcr @whalekeeper @power @hybridlore @liberty
TWO MORE NEW CHAPTERS. FOUR IN TOTAL TODAY.
And goodnight.
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
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