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Cuss words?
Yep. So…I’ve noticed that a lot of Christian authors (okay, two…but I’m sure there are more) have been putting profanity into their work. Maybe they’re writing something more or less secular (or fantasy, in which case, why use our cuss words for your made-up world?) or they’re writing something historical and they want to convey dialogue/monologue more realistically–which is sometimes unavoidable and other times slightly tolerable. Even Story Embers is kind of on the fence about whether or not it’s okay to use profanity in one’s writing. It seems to me like they’re leaning more toward the why not? side.
That bothers me. Which brings up the question: How do you, not as an entity (i.e., Kingdom Pen) but as an individual, feel about reading and writing cuss words?
Just gonna tag some of y’all here… @jenwriter17 @william-starkey @kathleenramm @r-m-archer @e-k-seaver @godlyfantasy12 @scoutfinch180 @devastate-lasting @nova21 @please-express-your-honest-opinions-or-just-tag-somebody-who-is-very-opinionated-because-i-want-to-know
the resident romance ghost; last seen within the pages of a gothic novel
@gracie-j This is quite the touchy subject among Christians. So things I’ve noticed about myself: I really don’t like it when authors overuse cussing in books, but I’m more ok if it’s a manga or Webtoon or something like that (probably because I’m too distracted by the images to really take in the words). I guess part of the reason why I gave up reading YA was because of the sheer amount of cussing (and also kissing scenes. Like more than kissing scenes, y’know?) Classic literature seems to tune down the amount of swear words they use (except for my man John Steinbeck; I read Grapes of Wrath at too young of an age.)
So when I write, I try not to use cuss words. I usually do something along the lines of “He swore”, or something, or use something on the mild side like “crap” or something. Sometimes however, when I’m drafting, if I’m writing a super emotional scene where a character is extremely angry or something, and I’m writing dialogue, and if it absolutely feels like that this line wouldn’t work without it, I’ll put a cuss word there. However, it is probably temporary, as those were all first drafts and I’ll probably try to look for ways to reword or rework the scene to avoid doing that best I can.
Essentially, if I must say, using cuss words frequently jarrs me out of the story and the prose. I don’t like it when authors use it in narration or prose, and I tolerate it more if it’s dialogue. Most of the time, however, I find it quite unnecessary, (Markus Zusak, your prose is beautiful, why must you use cuss words so much? Reading The Book Thief desensitized me to cussing a lot, to be honest.)
So basically, I would really rather you not use cuss words, but if you do, I won’t judge you. As long as it’s occasional and not in every single sentence.
Lately, it's been on my brain
Would you mind letting me know
If hours don't turn into days@devastate-lasting I feel ya. I haven’t had as much exposure to cussing in books as most people, since I read predominately Christian fiction–and because, for the longest time, there were never any cuss words in the Christian novels I read. Of course, classic lit is one thing. I recently read a Georgette Heyer novel, and one character cussed pretty much every sentence (half of them were British epithets, so they lost a little of their sting for me), but otherwise classics–like you said–aren’t half as bad as more recent works.
What bothers me is just that Christians feel, I don’t know, obligated to slip in a couple cuss words. If you’re not a Christian, I can’t judge, but I feel like you probably wouldn’t want your mama to hear you cussing, so why would you put explicit cussing in your book?
I use phrases and euphemisms like you do, and quite often, since my characters are, uh, very dirty-mouthed. 😉 I could probably use a couple cuss words, but I wouldn’t say them, so therefore I don’t feel comfortable writing them. I certainly don’t like reading them, since I know what they mean, how they affect people, and how they open doors for the devil.
I really appreciate you not using them in your finished product. Cussing (among other things people include in otherwise great books) really ruins the accessibility all books should possess. Books should be able to be read by children, teens, adults, and seniors alike, making them an adventure, an escape, and an expression for the author. Profanity, explicit scenes, etc., don’t make that possible.
*shrugs* So there was my rant for the day. 😉
the resident romance ghost; last seen within the pages of a gothic novel
@gracie-j Personally, I don’t feel comfortable reading or writing books with curse words in them (but I’m usually fine with things like “crap” or something). I understand some authors writing for the secular market might use curse words, maybe for a specific character that it seems fitting for; I guess it’s just up to the individual to figure out what do to with that. But I do not use curse words in my writing and don’t plan to. (the most I might do is say “he swore” or something like that).
I'm a Kapeefer 'TIL WE'RE OLD AND GREY!
www.jennaterese.com@jenwriter17 Exactly! Euphemisms or phrases like “he cursed” are fine with me. I just don’t understand some Christian authors’ “need” to put cuss words where a euphemism or a phrase might would suffice. It takes away the meaning from the story, if you ask me.
the resident romance ghost; last seen within the pages of a gothic novel
@gracie-j YES, I totally agree! It takes away from the story…
I'm a Kapeefer 'TIL WE'RE OLD AND GREY!
www.jennaterese.com@jenwriter17 Especially in Christian or YA fiction, when the emphasis should be on the message and the quality of the story overall. It turns an otherwise good book into a propaganda pamphlet intended to desensitize people to profanity.
the resident romance ghost; last seen within the pages of a gothic novel
@gracie-j Exactly!
I'm a Kapeefer 'TIL WE'RE OLD AND GREY!
www.jennaterese.comI find curse words, jarring, unnecessary, and just brings down the overall enjoyment of the book. Like @jenwriter17 mentioned, I totally don’t mind a book saying “he cursed” especially if that particular character is the kind of person to do so, but I instantly get put off if there’s actual curse words in it. I’m not sure why, but all I can imagine is the author writing it instead of it being a part of the story.
It’s kinda a shame that more people including Christians are using them in their stories. Of course, it’s totally up to them, but I feel like it lowers the quality of their work and makes it feel cheap and unprofessional.
I’ve got mixed feelings on this and I think a lot of it has to do with different cultures and subcultures. For example, in Australia cursing is very prevalent and especially in my subculture (rural, farmers and dog trainers) it is even more so. Therefore I grew up hearing a lot of swearing (though my parents didn’t swear) and I’m not uncomfortable with it (except the F word, because it’s not just a swear word but also a word for other stuff). I use a few sprinklings of certain words throughout my stories, but these are only “low-level” Australian/British curses and are the sort of things that would be seen in older English stories (d**n, bl**dy, h**l). I only use them very sparingly, on or two a book at most and I often get rid of them in editing.
But I do believe that as Christians we have a responsibility to be pure and godly in all ways we can be, and there are definitely words that I would never say, let alone write in my work (I’ll leave those words to your imagination).
So that’s my thoughts. A little different to everyone else, but that’s fine 😀
INFP Queen of the Kingdom commander of an army of origami cranes and a sabre from Babylon.
Absolutely against it! While u can’t avoid it sometimes in reading books, I refuse to write anything with language, and I probably won’t even use “he cursed” either.
Then again, I’m the person who doesn’t even use dang, or heck in her writing, or in real life really.
Someone I know, maybe my dad, said something along the lines of, if you have to use cussing in your writing, you’re not a good writer. There’s no point in it at all. There are so many other and better ways to show emotion then spewing out trash. While I do take my liberties with other ppls writing (and not if it has loads of profanity) I do not write that myself.
After all, I would NOT want my friends or family reading that kind of stuff in my books, especially not younger kids.
As for Christians doing that, I’m with u Grace, that’s very upsetting. Christians are out here to create clean, beautiful things for ppl. What message are we sharing if we’re going to do the same things as the secular world? What’s the point?
I want my work to serve the Lord, speak to others and be clean and fun, without making you feel icky when reading.
Strong opinions, but I’m pretty opinionated on things like this lol
#IfMarcelDiesIRiot
#ProtectMarcel
#ProtectSebThough, after thinking about this a while, I remember something a very smart teacher of mine said once. When asked how what he thought about swearing, he said that he usually considered about if this would hurt the person that he would say it in front of. I don’t really remember the whole conversation, but I do remember one of my classmates saying that he knows people who refuse to swear but can say things that are equally or even more harmful and hurtful to people.
Upon that note, do we not include swearing because it is easier to avoid depicting than things such as murder or rape? Because we can include other things that are very bad in our stories without being called out for it (as long as it’s off-screen, I’m assuming.) Which then, if we follow that logic, do we only depict the good things in life? Or the ugly things? Because I do depict a lot of awful things in my stories, which is why (depending on project, of course) I probably wouldn’t want anyone younger than 15 reading them.
I’m not really trying to say anything here. I’m only following a rabbit trail of thoughts that I just had in the past five minutes. Something to think about, to ponder. May or may not be a viewpoint I hold.
Then again, having a character say a bad word does hit differently than them saying something like, “I hate you.” Because the latter affects the other characters, whereas the former affects the reader themselves. I see now, I guess. The reason why perhaps swearing triggers us a bit more is because it’s like a bad thing “on-screen”, which affects the reader adversely.
I don’t know what I’m doing with my thoughts here.
Lately, it's been on my brain
Would you mind letting me know
If hours don't turn into days@devastate-lasting Very, very, very good point here. I totally see what you’re saying, and I think the issue is all in the way we’re depicting it.
I have a lot of rape, suicide, fornication, murder, lust, greed, depression, etc., in my books, and I’ve rarely been afraid to depict these things (even though my mom has lovingly freaked out on more than one occasion ;)). However, I don’t depict them as good. They’re wrong, the characters know they’re wrong, and the actors of these deeds (minus dead people and villains) repent and turn away from their wickedness.
With swearing, authors who include it put those words out there in their purest, vilest form for human consumption–as if such language is accepted and commonplace and not to be reprimanded. As in, they depict it as good, when in reality it’s not. Make sense?
When using phrases like “he cursed,” we’re depicting cursing; however, by not including the words themselves, we’re depicting swearing as evil rather than good. So, just like we include murder and fornication, we’re putting that in there. But hopefully none of us Christian writers are writing out explicit sex scenes, so therefore we’re depicting all of that as evil.
Did any of that make sense?
I totally get what you mean, and it’s really making me think. It’s all in the context. I can write the h-word all I want, but if I’m using it in terms of condemning someone to it, I’m doing something evil. I can write about murder, but if my character isn’t feeling guilt for it, then I’m writing something evil. The context and the subtext is more important than the text itself.
the resident romance ghost; last seen within the pages of a gothic novel
@gracie-j Excellent points, Grace. Thank you for it. I get what you’re saying now, and it makes everything a lot clearer.
Lately, it's been on my brain
Would you mind letting me know
If hours don't turn into days@devastate-lasting Whew. I’m glad you understand it. To be a writer, I still have a hard time putting my thoughts into coherent sentences, you know?
@seekjustice You actually bring up a point quite like Linyang’s, as you come from a much different background than the rest of us do. Since cursing is more of a regional/cultural aspect of your life (rather than a “pop culture” aspect), it affects you differently. You’re used to it and therefore hearing those words (whether or not they’re directed at you) doesn’t offend you, right? So if you were to be writing to an audience of Australian adults from the same background, using cuss words wouldn’t offend them, so it wouldn’t actually be an issue because of the context. Sure, those words are evil, but when they have no affect on a person (which brings up the issue of there being power in the tongue), they lose their sting. An example I use is when my younger siblings call each other names. It’s quite obvious that your head is not a peanut, so being called a peanut-head shouldn’t hurt, right?(That being said, I really appreciate that you don’t include cuss words and that your parents don’t swear.)
For us in America, for a young audience not as hardened to cuss words, or for a Christian group who do find those words offensive, context isn’t going to matter as much because we recognize the words as evil. Capisce?
As for the power in the tongue, cursing (verbally, mentally, or written out) opens up doors for the devil and will affect people whether they know it or not. Damning someone to hell in a slip of the tongue will have lasting affects, just like speaking life and prosperity over them will. It’s all in what the speaker/writer does, not what they intend to do. Just like it’s true my head isn’t a peanut and I know it’s not, that doesn’t mean I’m not going to be hurt by my sibling’s carelessness and the fact that, yeah, they called me a name. A stupid, untrue one, but a name nonetheless.
By the way, I’m learning as I’m writing this, because I can draw lot of parallels from this issue to an unrelated one I experienced. I was (unwittingly, I suppose) asked if I were something that I am not, and it hurt me. The person asking the question had no idea that it would hurt me, and I knew that was not true of me; however, I was deeply affected by the simple question.
And now I feel like I’m not talking about cuss words anymore. Hmm.
Anyway, I really appreciate the different perspectives y’all have brought up. It’s very interesting the background @seekjustice has brought to this conversation. On the subject of British cuss words, words like bl**dy don’t affect me at all, simply because I’m American. A word like bugger (excuse the language 😉 ) might not affect anyone at all, what with how commonplace it’s become in movies/TV/British language, but that doesn’t mean it’s not offensive. Before typing out a profane or crude word of any sort, one has to consider the different people reading your book. Although I intend my books for older teens and adults (simply because it’s over most kids’ heads), a lot of middle-grade kids end up reading them (thanks to unknowing grandmothers), so I should be prepared for that to happen if I ever used a cuss word. Kids could read that book, and it might open doors they’re unaware of. Also, I might feel comfortable using British cuss words or even having characters cuss in a different language, but I’ve had Canadians, Britishers, French, German, and other nationalities read my books, so I need to consider them as well.
Back to what Linyang said about other dark/evil things we depict, that’s why I also think we should include trigger warnings in our books (which I forgot to do for my last book, which deals with rape, miscarriage, and suicide…). We never know when someone who has been through those things, seen those things, has a friend or family member doing those things, etc., is reading our book. Trigger warnings can at least prepare them and younger readers for those things before they begin reading. I’ve basically rated all my books PG-13 because of that. I’ve had grandmas buy my first book for their ten-year-old grandsons (I mean, I know it’s about pirates, but it’s also a romance). The last thing I want is to be responsible for corrupting a young mind with profuse kiss scenes that he had not been forewarned of, you know?
Anyway…I’ll go ahead and end the rant now before I lose track of what I’m saying. Y’all get the point, right?
@kathleenramm @godlyfantasy12 @jenwriter17 I’m so glad to see that I’m not the only one who is upset by the profuseness of cuss words in “Christian” writing these days, and I am super thankful that y’all don’t use those words either.the resident romance ghost; last seen within the pages of a gothic novel
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