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Well I’m sort of referencing the first character you mentioned, but I’m also speaking broadly. There’s plenty of stories where people root for the villain, despite them not being redeemable.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
@thearcaneaxiom yeah, there are plenty of fandoms where something like that happens.
The first character I referred to was a kind of antihero, so he’s not a villain in the truest sense of the word, but I suppose the same rules can apply either way.
Where'd I get ya this time? The liver? The kidney? I'm runnin' outta places to put holes in ya.
Half of these references won’t be recognized but I do happen to have a list of villain’s I root for
-Jacks from Caraval
-Darth Vadar/Anakin from Star Wars
-Loki from Marvel
-Kylo Ren also Star Wars
-Katherine from Heartless
Love is patient. Love is kind. Love never fails. -1 Corinthians
And guess what? His is eternal (:True, anti-heros are separate from villains. The mere fact that he can be considered an anti-hero can push him over to likeable, though not always.
Yeah, some of these villains you can root for for different reasons. Some are sympathetic with sad backgrounds, others and just intriguing.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
@princesachronicle22 yep.
Although Vader and Kylo are two halves of the same coin tbh
then there’s Loki, who’s all over the place (technically he was kinda redeemed though? so does he still count?)
and I don’t exactly know the others, but I can tell they’re probably something like the ones I do know
Where'd I get ya this time? The liver? The kidney? I'm runnin' outta places to put holes in ya.
@thearcaneaxiom yeah, I think that’s probably why he’s in the category of “Not really a good guy, and not a guy I’d go and talk to alone, but not horrible either, and someone I might interact with if I knew I was safe from whatever he might do” whereas the other guy I was talking about……*shudders*
Where'd I get ya this time? The liver? The kidney? I'm runnin' outta places to put holes in ya.
Yeah, I think it’s important to remember that it’s never bad for a villain to be non sympathetic, it’s just all in the execution.
I would also say that it depends on the villain’s role. Sometimes you need a sympathetic villain for the story to work. But yeah, in and of themselves, a non-sympathetic villain isn’t a bad thing.
(I’m not sure if your following this Jonas, but you should go watch it😂)
Maybe I’ll have a chance in the coming year, after I graduate high school.
we know what he wanted but did we really know why he wanted it?
I would say that’s the mark of an unsympathetic villain. Their reason for wanting something isn’t really relevant. If you know why a villain wants something, you understand them more and it automatically makes them more sympathetic. (Although they can still be pretty unsympathetic even then.)
Are they evil because of what has been done too them? Or are they evil because of what they like to do to other people?
That’s another mark of sympathetic vs. unsympathetic villains. I would, however, say that the “evil because of what has been done to them” can easily lead to saying “something was done to them, so it’s not their fault that they’re evil.” That’s never true. A villain always chooses to do evil, even if an outside force pushes them in that direction. I think the best villains are ones where we see that they clearly chose evil, but we also see why they chose it. Something that happened to them can indirectly be the cause of their evil, but not directly.
Although Vader and Kylo are two halves of the same coin tbh
How so? I’ll admit it’s been a while since I’ve watched Star Wars 7 and 8 (and I probably won’t again) and I never watched 9, but from my memory, Kylo is basically just evil because he thinks he’s continuing Vader’s legacy.
This is a very insightful (and off topic) conversation lol. Maybe we should create a new thread. (There probably is one already, actually.)
🏰 Fantasy Writer
✨ Magic System Creator
🎭 Character RPer
📚 Appreciator of BooksThis is a very insightful (and off topic) conversation lol. Maybe we should create a new thread. (There probably is one already, actually.)
Yeah 😂
Love is patient. Love is kind. Love never fails. -1 Corinthians
And guess what? His is eternal (:I would also say that it depends on the villain’s role. Sometimes you need a sympathetic villain for the story to work. But yeah, in and of themselves, a non-sympathetic villain isn’t a bad thing.
True, of course ignoring the fact that a non-sympathetic villain by definition, is bad😂 (Someone was bound to do this, so I thought it might as well be me)
Maybe I’ll have a chance in the coming year, after I graduate high school.
I just had an idea! Do you have discord? What if we streamed it on there?
This is a very insightful (and off topic) conversation lol. Maybe we should create a new thread. (There probably is one already, actually.)
Yeah, there’s a few, I could find one and we can revive it, or we can make a new one.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
I just had an idea! Do you have discord? What if we streamed it on there?
Yeah, I do have discord. I don’t use it very much but I have it. You can stream things on discord?
Yeah, there’s a few, I could find one and we can revive it, or we can make a new one.
Sure. Probably better to reuse an old one, but it doesn’t matter too much.
🏰 Fantasy Writer
✨ Magic System Creator
🎭 Character RPer
📚 Appreciator of BooksYeah, I do have discord. I don’t use it very much but I have it. You can stream things on discord?
Yeah! I don’t know why I haven’t thought of it before. Although, the question is whether it will stream well, but I’d say it’s worth a shot if you’re up for it!
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
So, how exactly does discord’s streaming work? I’m honestly not sure if I would have time at this point. I’ve been pretty busy with school (which is why I haven’t been on KP much lately) and on top of that, I’m also training for my karate black belt test, which has been pretty time consuming. Things will probably be changing a lot for me in the coming months, though, so I’ll just have to see how much time I have as I go.
🏰 Fantasy Writer
✨ Magic System Creator
🎭 Character RPer
📚 Appreciator of BooksAll you do is get on voice chat, then share your screen for the most part. I’ll be busy too. I have work most days now, though only in the first half of the day, and I’ll be serving a mission not long from now. That’s awesome that your doing karate!
Maybe we could figure something out in the near future, but I don’t know. I’ll just say the offer is there then.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
for the sake of refreshing memory, i’m reposting this from the Character Part RP (Note: I have italized what I have changed):
Milk-skinned are her people, with pastel eyes that can tell no lies. Sweet are her flowers, that adorn the land all the year round. Tis a tropical place, with winter rainy but ever blooming. Tis a peaceful place, with never the sound of war a-booming. Hearken people! Do you not here the sound of the birds with sweet songs that ripple through their throats like the waters of laughing brooks? Hearken people! Do you not hear the cry of the fawn? New life is born in the forest.
Lillen’s cities are made of magic. Her great Queen sees to the land. Her great King sees to the people. Her people gather fruits from the forest, they carve their necessities out of wood. They draw water from streams. They take from nature, but never more than their do share.
But under the sky of fantasy light pink, white blood has now been spilled. Under watch of bright white sun, of pale blue moon, and twinkling star, the forest is torn and scarred. Fire burns. Water dries. Plants die. Creatures flee. Lillennings are murdered. But those pastel eyes, though filled with the opaque blue liquid that flows down their pinked cheeks, can do nothing. How many of the bravest have already perished? They are not trained in war. How long will the Gilgannings and Dragons rampage their land unhindered?
Will pastel colors turn black? Will opaque liquid turn dark? Will fruits of bright color, shaded by those sweet green leaves, strival and die? Will those white tan-spotted deer leave forever? Will the birds never again open their beaks?
The people the Queen calls are their only hope.
"You need French Toast."
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