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@mineralizedwritings @whalekeeper @smiley @euodia-vision @loopylin @joy-calle @elishavet-pidyon @koshka @esther-c @anyone-else-idk-lol-XD
Soooo…I need some advice.
I REALLY wanna work on a character that’s going to be an MC in a future novel (Out of Love), but he’s more of one of those…how do you put it…? Not very likeable protagonists XD
He’s already portrayed as an Antagonist in the novel I just finished writing/editing (not nice to Jews or Riker 😅), but in Out of Love, he’s an MC/POV charrie.
I love him because I know his past…and ngl y’all, his personality (though he’s annoying at times) is hard not to love xD He’s sarcastic, witty, cunning, and has almost a bad boy attitude.
He has his moments of goodness, but he also has his moments of cruelty, and he is responsible for the death of Fin 😭
I think I’m leaning towards giving him an internal conflict of “right vs. wrong” so readers can feel for him, and his past will be revealed bit by bit, but is a sad past, an internal conflict, and an honestly hard not to love personality enough to make him likeable?
I’d really appreciate some advice, and if anyone wants/needs to know more about Erich, I’m more than willing to share 😊
Thx y’all!! 💕
@freedomwriter76
I think it’s a great idea! I like it when I get to see a complicated characters pov. I think what would be important to me is to make to clear why he killed Fin, how he felt about it at the time, and how he feels about it now.
I think it’s much harder to redeem a character who has killed another character, however it’s important to address because obviously people who have done terrible things (not just little stuff) can still find Jesus.
If his badboy attitude is supposed to be likable, I think it needs to be clearly separated from what he did to Fin. Like, I think his serious moments in his character arc shouldn’t involve his witty behavior, just to make sure the reader understands it’s heavy.
Even if he is conflicted about what happened, I’d like to see it wreck him a little (Maybe he becomes depressed and his attitude/wittyness fades for awhile). Maybe he isn’t wrecked by guilt like Riker is, but instead his own conflict like you said between right and wrong.
Also I’m curious… Would you consider having some of his actions have less to do with his sad backstory, with only the justification of something like… maybe pride? I just think it would be interesting.
"And so I left this world just as I had entered it. Confused."
- Rank: Chosen One
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@mineralizedwritings Ok…okay, tysm for all the input!!! 😀
He doesn’t necessarily kill Fin himself (which I didn’t make clear 😅), but he reports Fin’s resistance work to Hans, who orders for Fin to be killed and kills him…Erich doesn’t “technically” kill Fin himself, but he is responsible for Fin’s resistance work being discovered by the SS, if that clears up a bit more
Erich is more of his witty self when he’s around his wife or his childhood friend Esther (the other MC of the novel), but yes, it would be so much more powerful, I think, if he loses that part of himself after some of the things he does.
@freedomwriter76
Oh ok, that does help. I thought he was literally the one who did it.
I think I remember esther from a snippet!
"And so I left this world just as I had entered it. Confused."
Loved that scene girl! I love your characters!
I rolled the log over and underneath was a tiny little stick and I was like, "That log had a child
@freedomwriter76
Awww Erich!! 😭
So, I know you’re not going to be able to make every reader love Erich. But I think we should have more stories that have an ‘unlikeable’ MC. Like they start out not being the greatest character but then you love them more as they change.
I can think of two examples. Tony Stark and Thorin Oakenshield (I know there are some people who love these characters from the start because they like the ‘bad boys’).
Tony starts out as a jerk that is very stuck up and doesn’t treat people right. But as his character arch progresses he goes from being a playboy to a committed husband and father. A smart, wealthy genius to a living in a humble cabin. A protector of self to a hero.
Thorin is just a jerk who treats Bilbo poorly, cares about glory for himself, then falls into the trap of wealth. But that is all redeemed in the last movie (Oh yeah, forgot to mention this is movie Thorin XD) but I can’t really explain more because spoilers!
But with all of that I would say it’s okay to have a MC who not everyone is going to like!
(I actually have no idea if I answered your question at all. I think I just added to everything XD)
I rolled the log over and underneath was a tiny little stick and I was like, "That log had a child
Thank you!! 😀
"And so I left this world just as I had entered it. Confused."
*Comes back days later* XD
Heeeyyy thank you guys so much for the input 🙂
The only thing I could say about it is that I never have felt personally connected to Seb. He’s the only one I’ve read a lot of. He is super cute and quirky, but I never have related to him. That being said, I haven’t read any emotional scenes with him in it. Everything about him is outward– his appearance, showy behavior, ect gives me the vibe he never shows his real self (if that’s what you’re going for, you totally nailed it) but also leaves me wondering who he really is, in a sense, I have never felt like I knew him.
Yeah, I don’t share a lot of emotional stuff from my projects XD
Um… I guess I’ve seen so much writing focused on the emotions of the characters, like, aggressively so, that I’ve just learned to avoid writing those same patterns. And my characters – especially Sebastian – are also extremely self-aware, because they almost subconsciously realize they are in a story, and make fun of that fact.
It’s not that I’m focused more on plot, or that I’m a more intellectual, fact-oriented person… it’s just that I’m the kind of person who analyzes personality types, relationship dynamics, the psychology of an emotion, etc. and I’ve done this for so long that I can predict story beats miles away. Aaaand unfortunately that means I avoid falling into those same story beats with my own writing.
Is it just a fruitless attempt to do something different?
Probably XD
Idk. It hurts my brain.
My characters do have emotions, I promise. Luckily characters like Marcel or Hugo are way more emotional. I just don’t often share those scenes on here. For other people, sharing means encouragement, and that’s great! But idk, doing that and having people fangirl over it, although I get the fuzzies whenever someone says OH I LOVE THE POOR BoOoOiii (because who wouldn’t XD) it almost makes me feel guilty. Or like those dramatic emotions are the only things worth writing about.
*Proceeds to overthink things*
Ok I don’t like saying all that about Seb because I haven’t read much of your writing!
In the wise words of Aakashi Keiji, “How utterly presumptuous of me!”
That is not your fault XD I might try opening up and sharing more.
In fact, it would probably be for the best.
I haven’t read much about your worldbuilding at all, but from the bit I have read it felt very creative and unique but not super tied together. But that being said I’ve only read one short thread about your worldbuilding. I got vibes of ‘very cool but a little confusing.’
World building is in progress XD I have a hard time sticking with limits to the systems, or explaining my ideas. That’s definitely something to work on.
Also I’m so sorry critiques make you so sad! Everyone of us, even the best published authors, could find something wrong with their writing if they tried hard enough. We want you to have fun, not strive for perfection 😊
Of course 😉 I promise I won’t obsess over being perfect XD
As for the RPs being my writing examples, again, that’s kind of just me, avoiding sharing stuff. But also I truly enjoy writing the RPs, and whenever I enjoy writing something, it usually comes out pretty nicely… because I love editing XD That’s not how it works for everyone though, and that’s okay.
Thanks for the advice, Min! <3 I will definitely take it into consideration. I love that you are very deliberate and considerate with your comments, and I am not offended at all.
Seriously, though, your writing style is my favorite. I can’t wait to read something you publish.
Aw thx Loops <3 Some day, hopefully! And my style has developed so much since I joined, I feel so much more confident than before.
“He stopped at the door and listened.” Flows a lot better and doesn’t make you feel like you accidentally skipped something while reading. Most of the time, commas can’t replace “and”s.
Ahh, the comma problem XD I can never decide!! Sometimes I write stuff like that without realizing. Thanks for the heads up!
@freedomwriter76
Thank you so much for the encouragement… really <3
Sometimes I feel like I’m doing something wrong, or I come off as silly or aloof – and it’s just this push and pull of the feels. But the only thing I can hope for is that it comes alive, despite the flaws.
I feel confident in my skills, and writing is just so fun <3
“Everything is a mountain”
- Rank: Chosen One
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So glad I could help encourage you 💗💗💗
I love Thorin so much 🙂
Me toooooo!! I think I am a sucker for the sort of characters I was describing. Well, just the redemptive arch in general. But no one in my family likes Thorin but I’m always like “Yes, he sucked at the beginning, I can agree on that, but he turns and ends of dying to saving everyone!”
I rolled the log over and underneath was a tiny little stick and I was like, "That log had a child
Exactly. Even if you don’t like his personality, at least you have to give him kudos for turning a new leaf. Right? *Twirls skirts indignantly*
“Everything is a mountain”
@freedomwriter76
Please tag me whenever you need to, so I can return the favor <3
“Everything is a mountain”
- Rank: Chosen One
- Total Posts: 8156
@whalekeeper Thank you; I’ll remember that 💕
Yeah, I don’t share a lot of emotional stuff from my projects XD
Um… I guess I’ve seen so much writing focused on the emotions of the characters, like, aggressively so, that I’ve just learned to avoid writing those same patterns. And my characters – especially Sebastian – are also extremely self-aware, because they almost subconsciously realize they are in a story, and make fun of that fact.
Y’know I really get that. There is a plethra of emotionally driven stories, and sometimes it can feel like too much. I’ve gotten used to it, but I definitely understand wanting to do something different. Everyone reads for different reasons. I think I’m in a stage of life where I write and read to process emotions, barely for fun. Like I don’t even care too much if writing is similar or too emotional– I just need it. So naturally it felt like something was missing from your writing; but in reality; we probably write/read for different reasons.
It’s not that I’m focused more on plot, or that I’m a more intellectual, fact-oriented person… it’s just that I’m the kind of person who analyzes personality types, relationship dynamics, the psychology of an emotion, etc. and I’ve done this for so long that I can predict story beats miles away. Aaaand unfortunately that means I avoid falling into those same story beats with my own writing.
Ok yeah… I understand that and it’s happened to me to. It does take something out of a book when you know where the arc ends as soon as it starts. I think there’s lots of ways to do characters arcs that are the same in a different way, but they tend to fall into similar patterns like you were saying.
Is it just a fruitless attempt to do something different?
Probably XD
Being different is fine!
Idk. It hurts my brain.
My characters do have emotions, I promise. Luckily characters like Marcel or Hugo are way more emotional. I just don’t often share those scenes on here. For other people, sharing means encouragement, and that’s great! But idk, doing that and having people fangirl over it, although I get the fuzzies whenever someone says OH I LOVE THE POOR BoOoOiii (because who wouldn’t XD) it almost makes me feel guilty. Or like those dramatic emotions are the only things worth writing about.
Yeah, I guess I just don’t know the others very well. Hugo? I’ve never met him before! What’s he like?
I get it 😂😭 I get really weird complicated emotions sometimes I don’t know what to do with, and your feeling guilty about it feels familiar. I don’t think the dramatic emotions are the only thing worth writing about!
I actually read an article about why teens like dystopian, (Excuse my off topic rant) and basically what it said is that having a confusing world can be a metephor for the confusing life they are entering into. I write dystopian, it’s the best genre to me, and I admit this is definitely why. SO… yeah. There’s probably a looooot of teens here on kp (myself included) who write to process/express emotions, and you poor Whaley seem to be sick and tired of it 😂😂that’s just fine!
It’s totally worth writing about other things!
*Proceeds to overthink things*
Me like all the time lol
It’s actually gotten a lot better though. I think just this last year I’ve been working on not caring as much about what other people think. I find that 90% of the times I’ve thought I messed up and start over thinking, everything is just fine XD and by trying to fix something that is just fine I usually accidentally turn it into a problem ;(
"And so I left this world just as I had entered it. Confused."
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