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Hm…I’m afraid I’d have to disagree with you there.
You say that this in-between character would at first appear to be active, but in reality be passive, because they have “No flaws” in the end they are just influenced by others, etc.
And I can see what you mean…but as a REAL human being who has been INFLUENCED by others (because everyone has been, that’s how mindsets are developed) that is a flaw within itself.
Flaws are developed often DUE to others and how you’re treated.
You become distrusting often because you were treated wrong. Being distrustful is a flaw. You are not perfect if you are distrustful.
You become hateful usually because you’ve been treated wrong. You are not perfect if you’re hateful.
You become insecure the same way, and you are definitely flawed if you are insecure. This is coming from someone who is insecure. Insecurity is a flaw. Essentially, flaws are weaknesses.
A lie is anything that you believe about yourself that is UNTRUE, that causes you to not pursue, or achieve what needs to be achieved.
One way to look at this is from a Biblical standpoint as well. God does not want us and did not make us to be insecure, hateful, etc. Thus, if we are these things, these are flaws.
Why we are like this? It can be due to outside influence, inside influence, a variety of things, but it doesn’t really matter. What matters is that you’re flawed, nonetheless.
An insecure person can believe a multitude of things- they are worthless, they’re opinions don’t matter, they can’t bother others, etc, and insecurity doesn’t JUST come from outside influences, but it can be made from your own influence as well. Our inner voices can be bullies.
It can also be made from traumatic scenarios that weren’t necessarily “people” telling us these things, but maybe we blame ourselves for something that happened.
ANYWAY!
this is how I view it, but everyone is allowed their opinion 😊
#IfMarcelDiesIRiot
#ProtectMarcel
#ProtectSeb@whalekeeper also…if what you’re saying is Active arcs are characters who basically say “I need to change everything about myself” (and they do that) IMO that would be a very negative arc/story.
Yes I understand people need to change…but that is through growth, not technically changing everything about themselves. Villains even have to grow to be kind. No one born evil, so even then those values ARE somewhere in them, they just have to set them free and grow to them, and learn to release the wicked habits and devices.
#IfMarcelDiesIRiot
#ProtectMarcel
#ProtectSebSo you mean that an Active arc is when a character is overcoming their flaws and a passive one is when a character describes their own worth/I-can’t-think-of-a-better-word?
In that case I might only have one Passive character.
Flaws, flaws…how much they riddle life. Well, here’s a spiel. I used to be scared to write a flaw such as selfishness. I didn’t know if a character could be likeable or be to “Preachy” if they had a Big Flaw. But then I read Wingfeather.
The flaws we write are supposed to be real, right? Well, go back to the beginning of time and see if there isn’t a sin which wasn’t based in Selfishness, Pride, or Greed. I have yet to find one. These are the Big Flaws, that everyone has. When a character is able to overcome, by something (or rather SomeOne) and not by their own will power, we learn that we can too.
Of course, there are many other flaws and lessons to be overcome and learned through writting.
Anyway…XD
Oh, so you mean the whole Active/Passive protagonist thing in the three-act story structure?
Maybe? I learned how to plot from a conglaberation of my English textbooks, the Save the Cat book, and lots of literature, so maybe. If that’s what it’s called.
What do you mean by Dynamic and Static? Is static a similar concept to a flat arc, where there isn’t any definitive change?
Yes! So, Dynamic means a character that changes or doesn’t stay the same throughout the story, whether for good or ill. An MC is typically Dynamic, although not always. Static means a character that doesn’t change throughout the story, that’s always as they were. Many Mentor characters and villains are like this.
Can an Active arc go wrong? How?
If a character gives up or isn’t fighting with the right sort of weapons.
Poor Lynn! She’s never going to see tarts the same.
First Grand Historian of Arreth and the Lesser Realms (aka Kitty)
Fork the Gork@koshka…heh…yea 😅
so it is kinda…surreal and dark and mad?? But I actually really really like it 😂
it has a Tim burton Alice in wonderland feel to it lol, and just…I like it a lot.
Plus it really just speaks to me about Lyn and how she views things…I’m happy with it (needs editing obviously but yea!) really one of those HUZZAH! Moments!
#IfMarcelDiesIRiot
#ProtectMarcel
#ProtectSebIt is very like her, which is fitting just…0_o Definitely Dark and surreal. Just a little gruesome… definitely makes it YA.
Cause totally something I couldn’t do in a Middle-grade book, lol.
Also…I don’t know if I’ll ever see tarts the same. XD
First Grand Historian of Arreth and the Lesser Realms (aka Kitty)
Fork the Gork*Pulls back* Okay, I’ll slow down…
First off, “influenced by others” was probably not the correct choice of word.
Being influenced by others can indeed be a flaw if you take it too far, make all your decisions based on others, etc. But that’s not what I meant. I just meant any normal influence in general. For example, it’s natural to be influenced by your parents, surroundings, and all that.
I am also not saying that insecurity is a good thing. It is for sure a bad thing, and a rough thing, and I can also say this from personal experience.
But I still stand by the opinion that even though an insecurity is a RESULT of sin, it is not something that should be treated the same way as a sin.
…
So, for an example…
Would you punish a little kid for begin insecure about his own appearance?
No.
But would you punish a kid for hurting another kid?
Yes.
What I’ve saying, is that in a “Passive” character arc, in this particular example, the character has to realize they aren’t as bad as they seem to themselves. They are still worth a whole amazing soul to God, and they shouldn’t be insecure.
It’s a totally different process, wherein they have to learn to be positive about themselves, and see the good where they’ve been seeing bad.
Whereas with an “Active” arc, they think they are doing the right thing, but in actuality, they are sinning in some way and have to overcome their own evil tendencies. They should be seeing bad where they’ve been training themselves to see good.
I understand the terms I’m using are a little confusing 😅
As for flaws developing due to the way you’re treated…
Honestly I understand this, but I think we need to understand that MOST sin just comes from yourself.
I… kind of find it frustrating that characters need to have a “backstory” for their flaws. Because backstories seem like an excuse at this point.
Why can’t we just have normal, everyday flaws in our stories without the emotional baggage?
Yes, influence is important, but in the end, everyone’s going to have sinful tendencies that DON’T have to do with a traumatic backstory. That’s where sin primarily COMES from. You. Not your abusive parents, or friends, or community. YOU.
And that’s… kind of dropped away from storytelling these days…
There’s always a backstory. There’s always the “way they are how they are.” Why can’t we just say they’re sinful, the way God tells us, and leave it there?
Anyway, that’s me arguing for flaws without influence.
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Wait a second. I just saw your second post.
…So you believe no one is born evil?
…
Because if so, we are arguing on totally different islands of thinking.
“Everything is a mountain”
OH MY GOODNESS I just realized… I think we’re each using the word “flaw” differently
I’m using it to mean, “sin”
Is that what you mean?
…
Also I’m sorry for arguing this late. I shouldn’t be going to far into this, when I’m not absolutely sure if I’ll agree with my past self in the morning XD
“Everything is a mountain”
@whalekeeper I was just about to come on here and say…
A flaw is not a sin 😅
Sin- an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.
Flaw- a mark, fault, or other imperfection that mars a substance or object.
#IfMarcelDiesIRiot
#ProtectMarcel
#ProtectSebAt least I don’t consider them sin in this instance, it depends on if your flaw is causing you to fall/sin. Then yes, it is a sin.
But things like characters flaws, unless that character flaw is a sin (such as unforgiveness, hate, etc) but insecurity is also a character flaw.
And ACTUALLY…if you go to far with insecurity, it can turn into a form of pride which is a sin but I’m not gonna get started on that XD
#IfMarcelDiesIRiot
#ProtectMarcel
#ProtectSebAlso as for being born evil…
No I don’t believe anyone is born evil.
we are ALL born sinful. But I don’t believe you’re born evil. That depends on what you allow into your life, your heart, soul, etc.
Unless God has divined otherwise of course (God always has last word in everything so whatever He says goes lol!)
#IfMarcelDiesIRiot
#ProtectMarcel
#ProtectSeb@koshka oof! I’m sorry 😅 I didn’t mean to go too far or anything… heh…
#IfMarcelDiesIRiot
#ProtectMarcel
#ProtectSebYou’re fine! 😉 I don’t think you went too far, it just gave me a…new perspective.
First Grand Historian of Arreth and the Lesser Realms (aka Kitty)
Fork the GorkOkay, I’m so glad we straightened that out 😅😂
That is MY bad by using that word in that way, and I apologize.
So I guess what I mean is:
Active arc: Triumphing over a sin you didn’t know you had
Passive arc: Learning you didn’t have a sin you thought you had
Does that make sense?
“Everything is a mountain”
Insecurities.
Okay, here’s the bread and butter of it when it comes to my personal opinion –
I agree with you that they can be used as a character flaw, this is more of a tangent –
I feel like they comprise ninety-percent of character arcs in modern day YA, and I… kinda want the scales to shift? 😂 Is that just me?
Like, I seriously see the realness of insecurities and why we need to handle them in a loving and caring manner, but they’re being used as a crutch nowadays in the books. It’s similar to the neurodivergence-drama I’ve mentioned before.
I don’t mind reading a good arc written that way.
But so many are just so typical.
I don’t know, this is a random bunny trail and you don’t have to follow it…
…
What’s the difference between sinful and evil?
“Everything is a mountain”
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@godlyfantasy12 @koshka @elishavet-pidyon Uh…*cough cough* welllllll….it may still be a plan for J**** 😅😭😭 (but don’t worry! He comes to Christ before he leaves for Eternity…🥹)
alsoooo, I may or may not be pondering the idea of him being a Lebensborn child…0_o
but I’m not entirely sure about that yet…my ideas change all the time XXD
but have no fear, my friends…for Riker will escape eventually, I promise, as will Leon <3
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