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- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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@scripter-of-kingdoms You are so welcome, girl! <3
@gracie-j
Ikr? I think wi-fi and crazy weeks have got it out for us writers XD
But anyway… *presents my two problems that take the form of my characters named Mejia and Filip* I remember you gave me some amazing advice on them back in the Romance Topic a while back that was super helpful:D And now I’m back with them because apparently, one consultation with the Writing Professor is not enough to help them XD The main trouble I have right now is the title of this topic. The kiss scene, *cue the ominous music*. The ominous music was required because of how difficult these two are and neither one of them want to oblige me and my ideas of their ‘romance’. To be honest, they are nemeses in the beginning, and since there is a lot of surviving elements in the novel, it’s hard to make them a hundred percent enemies. So they just barely tolerate each other but try to for the sake of survival. And even when they have a change in views of one another, (when they finally get to the romance of their relationship that is to say), they still are very cat-and-mouse and are not in any way, shape, or form… what’s the word? Uh, ‘steamy’ maybe? They’re definitely not that.
Also, I like using the “talk like best friends, play like children, argue like an old married couple, protect like brother and sister,” code for them even though they are on bad terms in the beginning. Plus the heroine has Haphephobia, which is the fear of being touched. This is one of the reasons she’s standoffish from people and has additional phobias that involve being close to another human being. That only adds to the hero’s confusion and conflict with the already silent and gruff heroine. I intend to include their whole relationship arc in the novel and so pacing is my main enemy I believe. As far as I know, the only kiss that would not work for them is anything dominant on the hero’s part. (And added to that, I have three first kiss scenes written already. I know, I know, and since neither of them has time machines, three first kisses just do not work).I know that none of that probably made any sense XD but thank you very much for reading through all of that long post:)
So my main questions are: do you have any tips on pacing? Choosing the best type of scene for the actual first kiss? Or tips in general for a hate-to-love, cat-and-mouse, often ‘comrade-in-arms’ attitude, very difficult, yet true love, romance? No worries about answering all those questions, but if any thoughts come to mind I’d appreciate hearing them, I just wanted to see if you had any ideas on my “little” dilemmas:)- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
- Total Posts: 1789
@abigail-m Ooh…you have come at the right time, girl! I JUST went through something VERY similar with my charries Keaton and Daisy in BAD, so yes, I totally get all of that perfectly!
Pacing…hmm. Well, my first tip would be to go with the flow of the story–just for the first draft. If that means the beginning is suuuuuper long and the ending is rushed, so be it. When you begin your next draft, you can cut out or extend whatever you need to and rearrange events and whatnot, based on what works/feels right in Draft 1.
My second tip would be to divide your book into parts. You don’t have to keep the parts, but just use them as a guideline. I’m doing this for BAD, and it is helping me tremendously. Part 1 is character + plot development, so introduce the characters, flesh out their personalities, set the stage for all of the suspense or action to come, and foreshadow any events in the future. Part 2 is romance (at least, it is in BAD; you can switch it around or add more parts)–so in this part, I switch my focus to the hero and heroine, since they’re in a lag in the action and all. They have arguments, kiss and make up, yell at each other some more, and start to feel something more than friendship or a familial relationship, you know? Then Part 3 is action, so I kind of set my characters’ issues aside and dive into the action (from prison breaks to blowing ships out of the water…it’s fun). Then, you know, resolve everything in the end.
You pick how many parts and what fits best in each, then just set most of your focus onto the main subplot in the individual section. Make sense?
Then it sounds to me like the BEST kiss for Filip and Mejia is the super slow and intentional kiss. My suggestion would be to have Filip either save her from danger or comfort her after something dangerous happened, you know? Then she can soften to him and his touch. He can start just by kissing her fingers or cheek. Then, as she grows accustomed to him, she might initiate a kiss or something. You know? Take it slow, until she opens up and starts craving him.
Anyway, I hope that helps!! I may think of some more tips as time goes on! Hey, would you mind letting me read over those three first kisses? I might can help you figure some things out!
@gracie-j
*Whew!* Sometimes I have no idea if my rambling makes sense or not, so I’m glad you understood it!:)
Ooh, that advice is awesome! I totally agree with you on first drafts there, and that is great advice!
Okay all that advice about dividing my novel into parts is gold, Grace! I mean I think that could even apply to my other subplots and am definitely going to have to try that method out:) Thank you!!! Ooh prisons breaks and blowing ships out of the water?? Whoa, that sounds EPIC!!! BAD sounds awesome and that sounds like there’s some awesome adventures in there:D But, anyway, yes I’ll have to try some of your fantastic advice out!!*Sigh* all those ideas sound amazing!!!!! Though I don’t think Mejia would ever tolerate Filip trying comfort her, (for example when her closest friend dies, she won’t accept anyone’s sympathy and grieves alone with her equines)… she is a VERY difficult character.
But I can imagine that you’ve had to deal with a few of those too huh? Another thing I have with her is that she is extremely down to business, no nonsense, and won’t even let Filip put his hand on her shoulder. I might have to send her over to your docs for a little while because she is won’t cooperate at all when it comes to romance 🙁 XD But it’s just who Mejia is, (tbh, with her, I was lucky to even sneak the romance subplot into the novel XD ).
Well two of those scenes are in a journal somewhere, but I can email you the one that I do have on my device and give you the outlines of the other two if you want:)But anyway, thank you so much for your reply and advice and all your help, I really appreciate it!!! Your advice is also always so genius:D
- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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@abigail-m Whew! I’m so glad that helps!!!
Haha, yeah. It’ll be epic…if I ever make it there! XD #thestruggleisreal
Oy, she does sound difficult! Even more so than Rina, actually. I would love to read over the one and the outlines of the other two! Maybe I can help you figure out Mejia’s weak spot!
Aw, thank YOU! I’m glad to be of service! <3
@gracie-j
It definitely helps! Your advice is always great!!
Ooh, awesome! I’ll get them together and send them over in the next day or so if that’s alright, (it’s a mess at the moment XD ), Thank you so much, I positively appreciate it!!! 😀 😀- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
- Total Posts: 1789
@abigail-m Aw, thank you! 🙂
Yay! That’s perfect! You are so welcome!!!
@gracie-j
Hi, Grace! *awkward wave* It’s me again, coming to you for help about writing romance, because I have a couple of questions for you about a certain kiss scene. Remember when we were talking about the ‘frustration kiss’ back in the romance topic several months ago? *counts on fingers* Goodness, that was a while ago, huh? Well, you gave me such a lovely idea, and now I think I may include one between Newton and Caira (I’m completely ignoring my other couples because these two are my OTP, so excuse me for talking non-stop about them).
Anyways, how do you properly execute that type of kiss? (Re-statement: do you have advice on writing one?) It’s going to be one of those kiss-them-to-avoid-dying-situations, so it isn’t romantic by no means, but I do feel like it’s necessary. Newton and Caira are in quite a tense situation, the antagonistic forces are drawing nearer, and it’s the only way to elude being seen. And of course Newton is the one that initiates it, and Caira doesn’t take it kindly. Here are my questions, if you don’t mind! (Please don’t feel obligated to respond if this is a wee bit confusing. I’m still in the outlining process because I’m not certain if this is something I truly want to commit to.)
When is the best time to include this type of kiss? At this point in the story, Newton and Caira are beginning to finally “get along” and not be at each other’s throats like they were in the beginning. They aren’t friends, but they don’t want to kill each other anymore, either. Would this be too awkward if they’re already starting to get along? I wouldn’t want it to suddenly destroy every bit of progress they’ve made and crush their blossoming “friendship.”
Should it affect their relationship in the future? I started thinking, “If you include this, how are they going to treat each other when they finally do become friends? Is it going to be awkward?” Or what about when they start having feelings for each other? I just don’t want to completely commit to this, only to realize that it’s caused more problems/struggles down the road, so I didn’t know if you’ve ever been in the same boat and dealt with this issue. If so, do you have any tips?
I’ve never written a ‘frustration kiss’ before, so any advice is warmly welcomed:) I’m very sorry if that was a bit of a ramble or, again, confusing, but you are a romance expert and I wanted to hear your opinion (and even if you thought it was a good idea). Don’t feel obligated to respond–I just wanted to know your thoughts. 🙂 Thanks!
- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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@writerlexi1216 Ahhhhhh…the frustration kiss. The avoid-death kiss. The could-totally-ruin-everyone’s-lives kiss.
My favorite.
This is not confusing at all – I totally understand your dilemma and your questions and honestly? I’ve never thought any of my kiss scenes through like this, so my answers to you may be a tiny bit confusing. So let’s see what I can do…
- When is the best time?
Honestly? That’s the perfect time. It’s when something this dramatic can actually be excusable, overlooked. When it’s not prompted by any sort of positive emotion (like love or attraction or something), your characters don’t have to worry about feelings getting in the way, you know? Like, this would be a kiss of necessity and can be regarded without any warm fuzzies – whereas if Newton kissed her because all off a sudden he likes her and she doesn’t feel the same, we’d have emotions and drama at play.
Make sense?
So I wouldn’t worry about the timing. You’re at a pivotal moment at their relationship, yes, and you don’t want to mess anything up. But here’s the thing: you can’t. You won’t. Until N&C start gambling with their hearts, you won’t have any worries about their relationship.
As long as Newton presents a really strong argument about how kissing her was necessary to save their lives and that he certainly would never want to kiss her, Caira wouldn’t be able to get all bent out of shape about it and ruin their friendship. (And, of course, as long as they don’t start kissing each other out of enjoyment instead of necessity.)
- Should it affect their relationship?
Do you want it to? is the question. Here’s my thing: they kissed. Like, that’s a serious thing. It’s gonna have to do something to them, their friendship, their feelings. But it may not be immediate. If they let it go right after it happens and don’t dwell on it, they can move past it until they do start feeling things for each other. Then, you know, remembering how kissing each other felt could make a lot of interesting emotions and drama ensue.
The best advice I can give you for this is to go with the flow. (I always say that, don’t I?) Let the story play out according to how the characters lead it. (Like when my man Keaton led the story in the direction of a marriage proposal – totally unplanned but so perfect.) Or think about how you would feel in their situation.
And, seriously, more problems/drama = a more interesting story. Don’t be afraid to let a little drama ensue – trust me, I love reading a book with a little drama! (I mean, it doesn’t have to be like a soap opera – just realistic.)
Definitely not confusing, my friend! And YES!!!!!! It is SUCH a good idea!!!! Anyway, I hope this makes sense, and if you have any more questions, please ask! I may be emailing you, though, with some more tips, because I honestly can’t get all of my thoughts together right now.
If it helps, though, yes. I have written many a frustration kiss. Although I can’t say all of my readers have appreciated Rina’s and Xavier’s romantic relationship, I will always regard their first kiss as a very interesting frustration kiss.
I think what would help the most in this situation – if you decide to go through with it – is just to have Newton explain it away and Caira to understand. (Of course, she can totally slap him in the face immediately after, but her anger can fade away after a while.) I’ve read a ton of books with kiss scenes (life-saving ones, celebratory ones, shut-them-up ones) in the first few chapters…and what I’ve found is that when there aren’t any serious emotions (like unrequited love or unexpected attraction) at play, you can pretty much move on from the kiss with ease! It’s when Newton is admitting he’s falling in love with Caira and she doesn’t feel the same way. It’s when they’re both struggling with their feelings for each other. It’s in those emotional moments that you have issues that rise out of it. In a purely survival-driven incident, you can ease up on the drama and mushy-gushy feelings.
Make sense? Ugh, I hope all of that makes sense!
Long story short: YOU SHOULD TOTALLY DO IT. AND DON’T WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING – YOUR CHARACTERS HAVE IT ALL UNDER CONTROL. (for now)
@gracie-j
Aw, thank you so very much for this reply!:) All of your tips are just, ugh… they’re pure gold, girl!! And no, your answers weren’t confusing in the slightest! They actually helped inspire me and set things in a different and more precise perspective! And maybe–just maybe–I’m finally convinced to include the ‘avoid-death’ kiss now 😉
Oh goodness, I cannot tell you how huge of a relief that was to know you think this is the perfect time to include it! I got myself so worried that perhaps it was too late or would negatively affect their relationship, so thank you immensely! 🙂 That makes total sense!!! And I absolutely love that advice you gave about how to move on from that point and how each of them should respond–it fits so well and I will without a doubt be taking this advice!! (Oh, and by the way, I absolutely loved Rina and Xavier’s first kiss 😉 )
Yes, I think Caira would definitely slap Newton after it happened, even if it was out of necessity rather than choice. She doesn’t take it very kindly. And yes, I definitely want to include lots of emotion in their romance, and maybe I could let you critique the scene after it’s written? Only if you’d want to, of course, because I greatly value your opinion on my work!:) Anyways, YES, that made perfect sense and I’m very grateful for all of this advice! You’re more than welcome to email me as well! 😀 THANK YOU so very much! *tips fedora* I think I most certainly will now! 😉 (Haha, they have it under control only for now.)
- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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@writerlexi1216 *sighs* Okay, good! I am SO glad that makes sense and helps and stuff!!! And, YAY! You’re gonna do it!!!
Oh, I’m so happy that fits! And, yes, it definitely is the best time, so DON’T WORRY a bit, girl!! (Aw, thank you!!! 🙂 )
Oh, yeah, DEFINITELY include a good smack across the face!!! Ooh, ooh, would you? I would LOVE to read over it for you!!! Thank you sooo much for offering!!! You are sooooo welcome! Thank YOU!!! (And give Newton and Caira my love, will you?)
@gracie-j
Of course it did!! And yes, I probably will now that you’ve definitely helped me outline it more in-depth!!:) Ahh, yes it most certainly does!! *sighs of relief* Haha, a good smack across the face, I thought, fit Caira’s character very well. XD. Yes, yes, of course! I’d love to have you critique it for me, only if you wouldn’t mind!:) Of course!!! YES, I certainly will!! 😉 Thank you again for all of your help!! 🙂
- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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@writerlexi1216 I’m so happy!! Oh, yes, definitely fits her character! XD Of course I wouldn’t mind!!! My pleasure!
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