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It looks good to me! (But I’m not a huge outliner as previously stated.)
so, does this mean you’re gonna start posting chapters?! 😃
No half-heartedness and no worldly fear must turn us aside from following the light unflinchingly.
@ellette-giselle @theducktator
Okay, good. Thanks!
so, does this mean you’re gonna start posting chapters?! 😃
Not quite. Now that the core is taking shape, I’m getting ready to move into a more structured outline, and need to decide which of all the middle events I have planned will suit the story best. I also still need to figure out some of the holes and am trying to generate ideas for some things.
- How exactly is Martha going to be separated from Alan and James just before the climax?
- What exactly is it that Iskyagus wants and why does he need Alan?
- What can magic do?
- Who is James? (I think I want him to be someone who is laid back and jokes around a lot, but occasionally has a moment where he shows surprising wisdom. I realized that I had Eric as the laid-back joker before he became depressed, and he will likely return to that later, so it’s a question of how I separate James from Eric. I do know I want James to be the encourager and peace-maker on the team though, and he will know the most about what it means to follow The Saviour, as he was raised in a Faithful home, unlike the others. I also think he is the type who feels bad when others are outcasted and tries to get them involved.)
Those are probably my biggest questions at the moment.
I’m currently trying to generate ideas for each of these problems. Since the core is starting to take shape, this helps me as I now am thinking, ‘What is going to help/challenge Alan in his fight against magic?’ I am getting there. If you have any suggestions to any of the questions I have posted, I’d be happy to hear them. I’m really hoping that I’ll have something to work on for the beginning of March.
Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to see the stars.
Who is James? (I think I want him to be someone who is laid back and jokes around a lot, but occasionally has a moment where he shows surprising wisdom.
oh. That’s not at all how I pictured him.
idk if this is a good idea, but I pictured him as quieter and much more thoughtful. Someone who is constantly watching and listening and so he knows a surprising amount about other’s personalities, strengths, and weaknesses. A peacemaker and encourager. So I guess the way you thought, except the opposite personality.
idk if that helps or not.as for Martha being separated right before the climax, could you remind me of the events just before?
No half-heartedness and no worldly fear must turn us aside from following the light unflinchingly.
Overarching Theme. […] What are your thoughts?
This looks good. I’ll note, I feel a bit of a blur between books. (You’re still in the outlining phase so that’s fine.) It’s great that you have his story divided into three areas of growth, but because they’re very similar when it comes to the actions Alan has to take, you need to make sure the challenges in each book are distinct.
I’m going to quickly throw this into a comparison:
“Trusting in Jesus to be saved” – Alan must face challenges which claim Jesus is not to be trusted / he should trust something else / etc.
“Trusting in God to help us fight sin” – Alan must face challenges which claim God cannot help us fight sin / or Alan can fight by himself / etc.
“Glorifying God in what we do” – Alan must face challenges which claim we must glorify ourselves / etc.
Similar, but still distinct. I’d recommend isolating those themes so they don’t blend into each other too much, or else it will feel like Alan is learning the same lesson three times over.
What exactly is it that Iskyagus wants and why does he need Alan?
– Wants to take over the kingdom, but only to make some key changes to the world. He doesn’t want the money/power, exactly, he actually wants to use them for a cause. Maybe he had a loved one who died because they didn’t have magical abilities, and he wants everyone to ‘evolve’?
– Initially he thinks Alan can be a figure in his cause who leads people into an evolution? Since Alan already does heroic things, like saving people from the king’s bad decisions, Iskyagus can frame his own cause in a good light by publicly associating it with Alan.
This is just one route.
Who is James?
From what you said, he sounds like me, only male. XD I’m usually the friend who interprets others and explains their words when other people don’t understand. And I’m often the last to speak, so I can tie everyone’s thoughts together. It’s a great way to help people feel like they’re in a connected group.
oh. That’s not at all how I pictured him.
I think your vision of James is very similar to what Linus has, with the omission of his joking side.
The exhaustion is strong with this one
idk if this is a good idea, but I pictured him as quieter and much more thoughtful. Someone who is constantly watching and listening and so he knows a surprising amount about other’s personalities, strengths, and weaknesses. A peacemaker and encourager. So I guess the way you thought, except the opposite personality.
Funny. This is more Martha (although she is not as good at listening when it comes to her brother).
I’ve noticed I have a habit of making my characters introverted. I want James to be an extrovert for a change.
as for Martha being separated right before the climax, could you remind me of the events just before?
What I currently have is they have just talked to the professor who studies wizard crystals and just found out there is no way to separate Alan from his crystal and there seems to be no hope of stopping Iskyagus. Alan, not wanting his friends to be hurt or used against him like Charles was, and seeing no more purpose in them accompanying him, tells them to leave. Martha and James insist on staying, saying it isn’t good for Alan to go alone and that The Great King intends for his children to grow in faith together. During the ensuing argument, something happens (due to Iskyagus) and Martha finds herself on one side, while James and Alan are on the other.
I was thinking maybe a force field, a floating island, maybe some giant stone dragon that swallows the two boys. (This is also why I am trying to figure out the limits of my magic system, so that I know what Iskyagus will have at his disposal to trap Alan.)
Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to see the stars.
Don’t have the boys be eaten unless you want to deal with a traumatized Martha. A girl doesn’t watch her friends get swallowed by stone dragons and continue on perfectly fine.
What if there was some sort of earthquake? I believe Martha was on Alan’s horse a bit before? If she’s still on it and there’s an earthquake or something flies by, any good horse will spook and if she’s not expecting it she’ll either fall off or grab on and let the horse run while she tries to recover her seat. Would that work?
No half-heartedness and no worldly fear must turn us aside from following the light unflinchingly.
This looks good. I’ll note, I feel a bit of a blur between books. (You’re still in the outlining phase so that’s fine.) It’s great that you have his story divided into three areas of growth, but because they’re very similar when it comes to the actions Alan has to take, you need to make sure the challenges in each book are distinct.
I was kind of afraid of this. Thank you for your advice on that. I will keep that in mind.
Something I should ask you about that is on a similar line of things between books I and II that I would like your thoughts on.
In book I, Alan’s idea of a hero is someone who takes sacrifices and tries to stop others from being hurt. Eventually, learned that he did not have to be the hero, for The Saviour is that hero instead. He also learned he could trust The Great King if Iskayagus did conquer the world. It wasn’t his job to save others either.
In book II, we learn that he still wants to see Iskyagus stopped. I kind of have this attitude in him of ‘I trust The Great King, and if Iskyagus does happen to get what he wants out of me, The Great King is still in control and good will come out of it.’ But Alan isn’t just going to let Iskyagus grab him either and do to him what he wants, trying to prevent him from concerning the world if possible. This is why he runs. I think this works for Alan’s character, and is what he would do.
But then, as Alan realizes he is hurting others, both from losing control of his magic abilities, to everyone who comes with him being in danger from Iskyagus. Charles’s death still haunts him, and he doesn’t want anyone else to be used against him like that. He comes to believe he should push everyone away for their own safety. He, at this point, has returned to believing he has to take risks, and can’t let harm come to others. He believes he has to be the hero again.
There are still some differences from Book I. In Book I, he pushed no one away, instead accepting any help and friendliness anyone gave him. He also was a hero for saving himself. In book II he is no longer trying to save, but to protect when possible. Also, in book I, while Alan feared he could become a monster one day, he couldn’t remember any magic spells, and so only viewed himself as being dangerous as a potential possibility in the future. In Book II, he sees people get harmed by sticking close to him.
What are your thoughts? Does this make sense for Alan? Could it come off as unbelievable character regression? Do you think this could feel too similar? If so, do you have any advice on how to separate it?
Thank you for the suggestions on Iskyagus and your thoughts on James.
Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to see the stars.
Hmm… that horse suggestion is good. Good point on the dragon.
Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to see the stars.
😊
No half-heartedness and no worldly fear must turn us aside from following the light unflinchingly.
@whalekeeper @ellette-giselle @theducktator
I’m still struggling to get through an outline, but it’s not working out well. I keep on getting to judgmental with myself, trying to write the perfect outline. I keep thinking, ‘ is this really what Alan would do? Is he unlearning what he learned in book I here? Is that a bad thing for his character development? Isn’t this too similar to book I?’
I’ve gone back to my guiding principles and tried to generate some alternative ideas. I know I want this story to be about fighting sin. But how to tell this story is what I am stuck on. I’ve generated alternative ideas for the Ghost, Lie, Truth, and Want (Not need yet) that could potentially work. In the end, they should all fit together. A Ghost is an event in the past or near the beginning of the book that will cause the character to believe a Lie. Becuase of the Lie, the character Wants something, believing it will fix his problems. The Need is what will really fix the characters’ problems, and the Truth will help him to see that. I’ve commented on most of the points I jotted down for Alan in how I think they fit him.
Could I get some more feedback from all of you, please? What do you think of the points I jotted down? Which ones do you think suit Alan the best and which ones don’t? Do you disagree with my comments? Do you have any ideas I haven’t had already that you think would suit Alan better?
Here is the link to that file again. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ErvfygQifiYqPZPsHGduLSFf9zKpyd6-lUFvjkUqDmQ/edit?usp=sharing
I’m also going to try to power through and write a 9-point structured outline with my first ideas for each of the 9 scenes, like I’m writing a first draft, without worrying about Martha and Eric’s side plots. I think it may help me if I do that, and tell myself I can always go back and edit it later. I will try to post that later today before I head off to work so that I can get your feedback on that as well.
But, quite frankly, between getting stuck, distracted, work, and school, I don’t think I will meet my goal of completing the outline by the end of this month, considering it is only 2 days to March. I’ll move it back to March 15 for now to give me a little more breathing space. Sorry, everyone.
@whalekeeeper, how long do you usually spend outlining?
Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to see the stars.
@whalekeeper @ellette-giselle @theducktator
Okay, I’ve begun the 9-point outline and managed not to huff, puff, and blow it all down to start over again after filling three points of it. Phew! Finally, have something down for each point. Most of this you have seen already, but not in this structured form. I wrote this with the intention of the main conflict being Alan thinking he is alone in his struggle and not allowing others to help him (Mainly his friends, but I would like to add in more of a spiritual side. Jade will probably point out to him that he is still struggling with magic despite being one of The Faithful, tempting Alan not to trust in The Saviour to help him overcome.) Maybe I won’t make this the main conflict in the end. I’m likely to make some changes to the conflict at least. But now I have something down, which has given me some fuel to press on.
What are your thoughts on this? Any alternative suggestions for these key moments?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pPdo2ZDjWhg9zeia1TtqsI0ZoLBqmTD8XNjJfoxkG4c/edit?usp=sharing
Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to see the stars.
I’ve been taking a swing at these documents.
Left several comments for you.
No half-heartedness and no worldly fear must turn us aside from following the light unflinchingly.
Thank you for your feedback!
Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to see the stars.
@linus-smallprint I’m a little late to the party, but I’ll help!
Pray, thou shalt simply add ketchup unto the mac'n'cheese.
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