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Hello everyone. I have a question. In the book I am working on, magic is an evil thing. It twists its users into monsters. My protagonist, Alan, has used some of this magic and become a wizard. He regrets it deeply.
In the chapter I am currently writing, he finds another wizard who, after using magic, became one of The Faithful (What Christians are called in this world.) This wizard no longer uses magic and knows it is wrong, but he also knows that The Saviour has forgiven him.
Now part of the reason Alan used magic was because his father used to read him fantasy stories, and he wanted to have cool powers like the characters in them. However, The Faithful Wizard owns these books. This bothers Alan and he starts to question the wizard why he owns these books and why he is reading them to children. Will that not also lead these kids to become wizards themselves?
My question is how do I deal with this? A fantasy book telling the reader not to read fantasy books would be hypocritical. I do not have any problem with Christians reading/writing fantasy (obviously) and there are even some benefits for Christians writing fantasy. Not every fantasy book is worth reading and there are some I won’t touch, but I don’t have a problem with fantasy itself.
However, I do know of some people who were led into the Occult by reading books like Narnia, but thankful became Christians later on. I also know that while I may not have an issue with magic, other Christians may and I want to respect that. I also want to keep Romans 14:15 in mind which tells us not to destroy our brother over different convictions. On the other hand, people convicted that they should not read fantasy are not likely to pick up this book.
Because of this, I am not sure how to make this character respond to Alan. Should he put the books away to not cause Alan to stumble (Alan is currently not one of The Faithful)? Should he change the topic to tell Alan that it was not the book’s fault that he used magic, but his own? Should he make a defence of his own convictions, but also maybe say there are some books he used to own before becoming one of The Faithful that he will no longer touch? What do you all think?
@ellette-giselle, @keilah-h, @theducktator, @loopylin, @stephie, @theshadow (Since you have all read some of my story.)@linus-smallprint For me, it would depend on what the books have in them. Do they just have characters with cool powers, or are there actual magic spells being used in them, even if those particular spells are fake?
A good example is Star Wars compared to Harry Potter. Both have magic systems I’ve seen Christians complain a lot about. This is my personal opinion and I’m not judging anyone for having a different one, but I’m perfectly fine with Star Wars’ “magic” system because it’s so far out of left field it’s obviously fictional (like reading mythologies from our world; they’re obviously fake), and there’s no spells or anything I could go around saying and accidentally do something in the real world. In contrast, HP’s magic system includes spells and specific things you must say or do for the magic to work, and I’m not really comfortable with that because it’s closer to what I assume real world sorcery would be like, and thus I don’t read those books in case I pick up something dark in the process. Again, this is my own opinion and I’m not gonna get angry at anyone for liking HP or disliking SW.
I would go with the “It wasn’t the books’ fault, it was mine” and the “There are some books that are okay, and some that are not” statements. And if Alan is still not okay with that, then the wizard could put them away and not mention them for the rest of the story.
Where'd I get ya this time? The liver? The kidney? I'm runnin' outta places to put holes in ya.
A fantasy book telling the reader not to read fantasy books would be hypocritical.
I think a lot of this can be simplified through common sense. Were these books meant to be imitated? Were they portraying real sorcery positively, or just using for an obviously fantastical story? If Alan (or even better, his parents, since he was young and easily influenced) was interpreting the magic as essential to a happy life even though the story’s tone never suggested it, that’s his fault. It’s not the book’s fault.
However, I do know of some people who were led into the Occult by reading books like Narnia, but thankful became Christians later on.
This is what I mean. This is the unfortunate problem with easily sway-able people; to put the blame on C.S. Lewis is ridiculous. Anyone who goes into the Occult because of a mainstream middle grade/YA fantasy series – they are the issue. That’s like saying you should try to jump off a cliff and fly when you see Superman doing the same.
I’m still going to defend HP, albeit politely, and anyone can disagree 😅 I have read it. The magic is obviously fictional (all spells are just literal Latin words), it’s supposed to be a play on the modernized wizard tropes (Dumbledore is just a more grandfatherly, sweater-knitting Gandalf), and HP has a better grasp on morality than 70% of YA fantasy.
My dad can vouch as an expert researcher for this next point. There’s the fact that ancient sorcery isn’t defined by how you conjure it, since it ranges from raising a staff to cutting open a sheep. To say any of these things are evil is completely beside the point. (I mean, unless it’s murder or something.) The essence of magic is what you’re trying to do, which is to connect with the spiritual/demonic world to gain guidance from ungodly forces. That’s the real-world purpose, and I think we can all agree it’s a bad purpose.
Any fantastical happenings in the ancient world, like the sorcerers of Egypt summoning snakes, only happened because the sorcerers called on an evil power – their gods. These gods actually existed. They were evil spirits, and had their own arsenal of powers to mimic the true God. If I remember correctly, Moses also summoned a snake to eat up the others.
This proves the fantastical thing itself isn’t evil. Moses also summoned a snake! It wasn’t evil of him to do so! He did it by the power of God, which is the ultimately good power. 🙂
Hypothetically, if I belonged in an alternate dimension and said the exact spell words to summon a demon in this real dimension… I don’t think that’s sinful, because I was never trying to summon anything, nor does it have any underlying purpose. This is kind of the same thing as a fictional magic.
I don’t think fictional spells are bad. They’re only bad when the author is congratulating their original purpose in the real world, and saying, “it’s AcTuLLaY kinda dOpE to contact hell!!”
Some books do that, some don’t.
Should he put the books away to not cause Alan to stumble (Alan is currently not one of The Faithful)? Should he change the topic to tell Alan that it was not the book’s fault that he used magic, but his own? Should he make a defence of his own convictions, but also maybe say there are some books he used to own before becoming one of The Faithful that he will no longer touch? What do you all think?
I think he should ask Alan to compare the books magic with real magic.
If Alan realizes they aren’t the same thing, he and The Faithful Wizard should delve into why he confused the two so easily. It was probably because he wanted affirmation or individuality, and when he saw important people in the books, he assumed the magic was the answer.
If they are the same thing, focus on the evil purpose of the magic in both the fiction and real world. (Aaand he should probably question where he got those stories 😅.)
“Everything is a mountain”
To be clear, I’m not attacking Keilah, I’m just generally defending the use of magic in these generally avoided series.
“Everything is a mountain”
I agree with you about Harry Potter. Another thing is that the characters weren’t exactly learning magic. They were learning how to use their abilities. Magic is genetic, not a way to get into the occult or a fantasy equivalent.
Probably have him explain the difference between these and other books with magic, then say that it wasn’t the book’s fault, but his fault. I don’t know if you’ve heard of the 5 Common Topics, but they’d be a good way to handle this conversation. Definition, comparison, relationship, circumstance, and testimony. If you google them, you should be able to find questions to go with them. It’s how we do conversations at my co-op.
The squirrels are collecting more nuts than usual this winter. I've already lost 3 relatives.
Hmm, I would say it isn’t the book’s fault ever. I mean, you chose what to put before your eyes, and that was your doing. The book didn’t open up, shove itself in for face, and force your brain to read the words.
This is what I mean. This is the unfortunate problem with easily sway-able people; to put the blame on C.S. Lewis is ridiculous. Anyone who goes into the Occult because of a mainstream middle grade/YA fantasy series – they are the issue. That’s like saying you should try to jump off a cliff and fly when you see Superman doing the same.
Amen to that!!!
It’s the same as saying guns kill people.
No they don’t.
People kill people and they use guns, knives, bombs, tanks, forks, and baseball bats to do it.
The book didn’t do anything. The reader chose to pick it up and read it.
Now, as for the question of READING the books, (who have done nothing wrong) I would say that if I was Alan I would like to steer clear of any and all magic. It would be like a guy who was addicted to drinking declining to have a glass of wine with dinner. One thing that would be interesting is are the fantasy characters the Wizard is reading about casting spells, or is it something they are born with? That would be different. Spell casting is ALWAYS evil, and I have the Bible to back me up on that one. However, you have a fantasy world, so being born with strange abilities is not out of the question.
Interesting idea……. does your world have a Bible? I believe I saw you mention something about no direct quotes so as not to change God’s word. However, I would be interested to see what Alan thinks when he reads it and learns about Jesus. To him, Jesus is going to seem like some super powerful Wizard, which would be really co0nfusing because the Faithful are against magic. It could spark some very interesting conversations, especially since as of yet, this culture is atheist. You haven’t mentioned any gods, so that would be the assumptions. The worship of the gods is an every day event so I would expect you to mention it sooner if it did happen. Since you haven’t, I’m guessing that at least Klaw is an atheist country.
Anyhow, there’s my thoughts.
Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God
Hmm, I would say it isn’t the book’s fault ever. I mean, you chose what to put before your eyes, and that was your doing. The book didn’t open up, shove itself in for face, and force your brain to read the words.
This is what I mean. This is the unfortunate problem with easily sway-able people; to put the blame on C.S. Lewis is ridiculous. Anyone who goes into the Occult because of a mainstream middle grade/YA fantasy series – they are the issue. That’s like saying you should try to jump off a cliff and fly when you see Superman doing the same.
Amen to that!!!
It’s the same as saying guns kill people.
No they don’t.
People kill people and they use guns, knives, bombs, tanks, forks, and baseball bats to do it.
The book didn’t do anything. The reader chose to pick it up and read it.
Now, as for the question of READING the books, (who have done nothing wrong) I would say that if I was Alan I would like to steer clear of any and all magic. It would be like a guy who was addicted to drinking declining to have a glass of wine with dinner. One thing that would be interesting is are the fantasy characters the Wizard is reading about casting spells, or is it something they are born with? That would be different. Spell casting is ALWAYS evil, and I have the Bible to back me up on that one. However, you have a fantasy world, so being born with strange abilities is not out of the question.
Interesting idea……. does your world have a Bible? I believe I saw you mention something about no direct quotes so as not to change God’s word. However, I would be interested to see what Alan thinks when he reads it and learns about Jesus. To him, Jesus is going to seem like some super powerful Wizard, which would be really co0nfusing because the Faithful are against magic. It could spark some very interesting conversations, especially since as of yet, this culture is atheist. You haven’t mentioned any gods, so that would be the assumptions. The worship of the gods is an every day event so I would expect you to mention it sooner if it did happen. Since you haven’t, I’m guessing that at least Klaw is an atheist country.
Anyhow, there’s my thoughts.
I’m with you on Harry Potter.
Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God
@ellette-giselle @theducktator @whalekeeper whoaaaa I didn’t mean to start a HP fight in the replies, I was just stating why I personally don’t trust it. I don’t think any of you are like, evil or anything for reading it.
but I would agree with what whaley says on the “Are the books basing off real magic, or are they just fantasy with cool powers?” thing, and Ellette with the “It’s not the books’ fault at all. You chose to read it.” thing.
also about killing with forks, I know someone who knows the best places to stab someone with a fork. Luckily they’ve never actually done it.Where'd I get ya this time? The liver? The kidney? I'm runnin' outta places to put holes in ya.
also about killing with forks, I know someone who knows the best places to stab someone with a fork. Luckily they’ve never actually done it.
Me to. Luckily I’ve never had to do it. Anyone trying to mess with me, beware.
Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God
@ellette-giselle haha yeah…
it’s useful for story writing though
Where'd I get ya this time? The liver? The kidney? I'm runnin' outta places to put holes in ya.
So, what are the best places to stab someone with a fork?
The squirrels are collecting more nuts than usual this winter. I've already lost 3 relatives.
Wow, way off topic!!
Idk if I should share that….. lol. What do you think @keilah-h ?
Why do you want to know?
Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God
@theducktator From what I remember it’s the neck (Jugular vein and carotid artery) or thigh (Femoral veins)
Both will cause the victim to bleed out, if that’s what you’re intending. Anywhere else will just cause them pain. Of course, you could always aim for the eye if you want to hurt them severely but not have a near-100% kill chance.
It’s why shark encounters can be deadly. The shark doesn’t usually aim to eat the person. It only bites a portion of what it thinks is a seal or fish–and usually that’s a leg. So by the time it realizes its mistake and lets go, it has already damaged the femoral blood vessels.
I am not a trained professional in either treating wounds or causing them, and I apologize if this makes me seem creepy or like I do this normally. I don’t. It’s just a weird bit of knowledge I have.
Where'd I get ya this time? The liver? The kidney? I'm runnin' outta places to put holes in ya.
You never know when such information will come in handy. 😂
Thank you!
The squirrels are collecting more nuts than usual this winter. I've already lost 3 relatives.
@theducktator lol you’re welcome!!
Where'd I get ya this time? The liver? The kidney? I'm runnin' outta places to put holes in ya.
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