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yessss I get like this too, I decide a scene is cringey, but I like it too much to remove it.
YES YES YES YES YESSSSSS
that’s the most relatable thing I’ve heard XDXD
What are they gonna do to Sef’s little sis?
Well…its kinda a long story and it’s gonna give away a lot (I also need to flesh out the plot wayyy more)
When I have all my thoughts organized I will let you know hahaha!
This lady thrives on the divine grace of Faith and the rich embrace of caffeine.
@savannah_grace2009 ohhhh ok!
also I’m still laughing about “bRiNg a MeLoN” lollll
"When in doubt, eat cheese crackers."-me to my charries who don't even know about cheese crackers
also I’m still laughing about “bRiNg a MeLoN” lollll
It’s my favorite thing ever hahaha
This lady thrives on the divine grace of Faith and the rich embrace of caffeine.
@savannah_grace2009 HTTYD humor never gets old, does it?
"When in doubt, eat cheese crackers."-me to my charries who don't even know about cheese crackers
Ok, so I told you I’d finish reading your book by the end of February, and I did! But I only started like two days ago. 🤣 Here are my thoughts! (Excuse any typos, I was doing this in the car, lol!)
Ok, so the biggest thing I noticed was the lack of hope throughout the story. The characters seemed to think about death a lot and were put through a lot of physical pain. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but it needs to be balanced out with hope. When I got to read those Lilitu/Sef memories from when they were little, that was a breath of fresh air. The reader needs more glimmers of hope like that. I understand what you’re trying to build to, but we need glimpses, whispers, of that hope now. The overall vibe just ended up being kind of depressing and as a reader, we need more sparks of hope sprinkled in there.
Also kinda tying into that idea, I think there needs to be more solid reasons to root for the characters than just sympathy. Let’s see their virtues come out in some of their darkest times. (I think that would help with giving it a more hopeful vibe too). I feel like you gave us glimpses of some of the characters’ best virtues, but I think we need to see more of that in order to root for the characters more. Does that make sense?
Livia and Marcurious…. That love at first sight hit HARD. Lol. Now, it did fit with Liv’s desire to be loved by someone, but it was definitely sudden and intense. Also, I was really liking Marcurious until I saw how he treated Liv. What I mean by this, is that he was flirting a lot and it was inching closer to the line where I would call it inappropriate. I know they didn’t get a lot of time together in the first book, but I’d like to see Marky respect Liv more. You know what I mean? Like, I don’t super mind the sudden attraction, but I’d like to see more of a “princely’ character in him.
Another thing I was wondering… Why do the Pythonos hate the Paynes so much? What’s their motivation for torturing this race and ransacking Andromeda? I felt like that wasn’t clear in the book. I was also wondering the reason why Iver wanted Sef. It seemed like all he did was beat her and I didn’t know why…
One more thing… (Last critique, I promise!!) I’d like to see Sef’s and Livia’s grief more. Sef knows she’s never gonna see her mom again, Liv knows her parents are dead. I want to see these girls break down and grieve. I know that sounds bad, lol, but it feels unrealistic for them to just keep going. (Like, Sef seems to think about Lilitu more than her mom…) I know neither want people to see them crying, but when they’re alone, let’s see their humanity a little more. (The reason why I say this, is because I’ve experienced loss and seen others experience it to a deeper degree than me, and I hate when it’s misrepresented in fiction. There’s a certain author that I really like, except for the fact that in two separate books, different characters had a parent die and their grief was unrealistic and it really bothered me).
Those were the biggest “negative” things I noticed. But! You need to hear some positive things!!!
First of all, Lilitu. Need I say more? 😂 He comes in very very close second as favorite next to Marky. He’s the character that I saw the will to fight and survive in the most and I really liked that. I just really liked him as a character overall.
Even though we didn’t get to know Neveah super well, from what we did see, I noticed she was a strong woman. And not just because she’s like tough or something, but more of a biblical strength. That was refreshing to see. Especially how she was strong, but we also saw a glimpse of her weakness near the beginning of the book. Good job with her character!
I also really liked how you brought certain characters together by the end of the book. I thought that was really cool how you worked all that out!
Also…the world!!! Girl, you spent time on the world building, I can tell. I love it! The names of people and places are super cool and imo pretty unique (in a good way ofc)!
So yeah, great job girl!!! I really enjoyed reading it and I can’t wait to read the next book and see how you finish all these characters’ stories! I’m so excited to see how God uses your writing in the future.💕 Keep writing!! ✨Write what should not be forgotten. — Isabel Allende
Ok, so the biggest thing I noticed was the lack of hope throughout the story. The characters seemed to think about death a lot and were put through a lot of physical pain. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but it needs to be balanced out with hope. When I got to read those Lilitu/Sef memories from when they were little, that was a breath of fresh air. The reader needs more glimmers of hope like that. I understand what you’re trying to build to, but we need glimpses, whispers, of that hope now. The overall vibe just ended up being kind of depressing and as a reader, we need more sparks of hope sprinkled in there.
So…
About that…
My story is not a lighthearted, hopeful story, at least in the beginning. Right now it’s supposed to be “depressing” and dark. Honestly, to add sprinkles of hope in wouldn’t work for what’s going to happen in the next few chapters. Because right now, none of my characters know God, and so without God there is no hope. I want to get that across to the readers.
I feel like if I were to tell you the whole entire story, all the details and everything, it would make more sense XDXD There’s a lot of details that are being foreshadowed right now, and I want to keep playing around with that, so I’m not going to share what I have in store hahaha
My book also just has a different feel to it. I don’t know how to explain it…traditionally you would want to add more hope, but since my book is so allegorical, the hope doesn’t come until later. I’m not sure if any of this makes sense, but most of what you said I did intentionally 😅😅
Also kinda tying into that idea, I think there needs to be more solid reasons to root for the characters than just sympathy. Let’s see their virtues come out in some of their darkest times. (I think that would help with giving it a more hopeful vibe too). I feel like you gave us glimpses of some of the characters’ best virtues, but I think we need to see more of that in order to root for the characters more. Does that make sense?
Honestly my characters (at least right now) don’t have a lot of virtues 😅 and that’s also intentional. My characters, in a way, aren’t really people…they’re more like themes. Themes of brokenness and how God can heal their brokenness. Normally their virtues would come out (if this was a normal book) but in this case, the opposite will happen. My goal is that the reader will relate to their flaws and root for them because they find themselves in the flaws. I don’t know if any of that made sense to anyone else but this is helping me flesh out my thoughts lolll
Livia and Marcurious…. That love at first sight hit HARD. Lol. Now, it did fit with Liv’s desire to be loved by someone, but it was definitely sudden and intense. Also, I was really liking Marcurious until I saw how he treated Liv. What I mean by this, is that he was flirting a lot and it was inching closer to the line where I would call it inappropriate. I know they didn’t get a lot of time together in the first book, but I’d like to see Marky respect Liv more. You know what I mean? Like, I don’t super mind the sudden attraction, but I’d like to see more of a “princely’ character in him.
This was intentional too hahaha
Marcurious is a tough nut to crack lol…*tries to figure out how to explain this*
and he’s not a “prince”. He despises his title and now he’s falling into “reckless living” kind of like the prodigal son (bad analogy, but it’s all I could think of) I know that scene needs smoothing over, but it made me laugh so I kept it. Even though I know it’s sloppy.
You’re also not supposed to like Marky. Not yet anyway. He has a lot of character development to do lol
Another thing I was wondering… Why do the Pythonos hate the Paynes so much? What’s their motivation for torturing this race and ransacking Andromeda?
Another thing I did on purpose XDXD
If I were to reveal that, it would take too much away from what the Pythonos really are about, and who they really are. I do foreshadow that a lot, but you won’t find that out until the end.
I know I don’t foreshadow perfectly, but there’s a reason you’re confused, and I’m going to work on that XDXD
I was also wondering the reason why Iver wanted Sef. It seemed like all he did was beat her and I didn’t know why…
That’s also foreshadowed, and there’s a looooonnng explanation for that. It will all make sense in the next half of the book.
One more thing… (Last critique, I promise!!) I’d like to see Sef’s and Livia’s grief more. Sef knows she’s never gonna see her mom again, Liv knows her parents are dead. I want to see these girls break down and grieve. I know that sounds bad, lol, but it feels unrealistic for them to just keep going. (Like, Sef seems to think about Lilitu more than her mom…) I know neither want people to see them crying, but when they’re alone, let’s see their humanity a little more. (The reason why I say this, is because I’ve experienced loss and seen others experience it to a deeper degree than me, and I hate when it’s misrepresented in fiction. There’s a certain author that I really like, except for the fact that in two separate books, different characters had a parent die and their grief was unrealistic and it really bothered me).
The problem with this is that grief, for me at least, causes me to shut down and go numb. I was trying to represent this, but I wasn’t sure how so I think it came across as if both girls didn’t care.
Sef is so damaged mentally that she doesn’t really have the ability to feel things very well. And Livia’s still in denial, holding on to hope that her parents are alive. Both of them are avoidant and won’t be able to fully let grief settle in until a pivotal scene I haven’t written yet. XD
First of all, Lilitu. Need I say more? 😂 He comes in very very close second as favorite next to Marky. He’s the character that I saw the will to fight and survive in the most and I really liked that. I just really liked him as a character overall.
YAYYYYY
His character has gotten way better since previous drafts!!! SO I’m happy you could tell! <3
Even though we didn’t get to know Neveah super well, from what we did see, I noticed she was a strong woman. And not just because she’s like tough or something, but more of a biblical strength. That was refreshing to see. Especially how she was strong, but we also saw a glimpse of her weakness near the beginning of the book. Good job with her character!
yeah, she is *cries* poor girl <3
I also really liked how you brought certain characters together by the end of the book. I thought that was really cool how you worked all that out!
Thank you!!!
Also…the world!!! Girl, you spent time on the world building, I can tell. I love it! The names of people and places are super cool and imo pretty unique (in a good way ofc)!
Aw! That means a lot to me!
So yeah, great job girl!!! I really enjoyed reading it and I can’t wait to read the next book and see how you finish all these characters’ stories! I’m so excited to see how God uses your writing in the future.💕 Keep writing!! ✨
Girl, thank you sooooo much!
This lady thrives on the divine grace of Faith and the rich embrace of caffeine.
I also hope I didn’t come across as rude or brushing you off…I really do appreciate your thoughts because that means I need to work on foreshadowing! And explaining my book to others helps me flesh out my thoughts a little more! Thank you so much! <3
This lady thrives on the divine grace of Faith and the rich embrace of caffeine.
My story is not a lighthearted, hopeful story, at least in the beginning. Right now it’s supposed to be “depressing” and dark. Honestly, to add sprinkles of hope in wouldn’t work for what’s going to happen in the next few chapters. Because right now, none of my characters know God, and so without God there is no hope. I want to get that across to the readers.
I feel like if I were to tell you the whole entire story, all the details and everything, it would make more sense XDXD There’s a lot of details that are being foreshadowed right now, and I want to keep playing around with that, so I’m not going to share what I have in store hahaha
My book also just has a different feel to it. I don’t know how to explain it…traditionally you would want to add more hope, but since my book is so allegorical, the hope doesn’t come until later. I’m not sure if any of this makes sense, but most of what you said I did intentionally 😅😅
Ok so I totally get what you’re saying and what you’re trying to do with this book, but this is what I was thinking… (especially since you mentioned it being allegorical)
Think about the Old Testament believers. Things weren’t always easy for them. They went through a lot of hard things. But for them, their hope came from knowing that one day the Messiah would come and set them free from the darkness.
Now, you mentioned your characters not knowing God. And I liked how you put that—“without God there is no hope.” But…you have to think that these characters are probably looking for hope, right? Even just an occasional thought of wishing there was a way out of this darkness they’re living in.
So I know with where they’re at right now, they can’t actually cling onto a true hope, but even just them wondering if there is hope beyond this darkness, is a good way to sprinkle in that hope without changing the tone.
Does that make sense?
And I totally understand if you want to keep it the way you have it. I just want you to know how I’m seeing it and what I think would work well. But you’re the author girl!! It’s completely up to you! I just wanted to give you some things to think about, but I won’t be offended if you don’t go with what I suggested. It’s your story!!
Honestly my characters (at least right now) don’t have a lot of virtues 😅 and that’s also intentional. My characters, in a way, aren’t really people…they’re more like themes. Themes of brokenness and how God can heal their brokenness. Normally their virtues would come out (if this was a normal book) but in this case, the opposite will happen. My goal is that the reader will relate to their flaws and root for them because they find themselves in the flaws. I don’t know if any of that made sense to anyone else but this is helping me flesh out my thoughts lolll
Doesn’t everyone have at least a fragment of virtue though? (Sorry, I don’t mean to shut down everything you’re saying, this is just my thoughts. 😅) I’m not saying they have to be someone that the readers will look up to and be like, “Oh my word I want to be just like them.” I understand mankind is sinful and there probably are people out there that have gone so far in rejecting God that they just can’t be a good person. But I don’t believe your characters are at that point.
I totally understand what you’re getting at with having them represent themes and wanting readers to relate to their flaws. But most readers are going to to have flaws and virtues, right? When I mean virtues, I pretty much mean good character traits, or even glimmers of Christ’s compassion (just like there are people in the world who do good things, but have no idea that they’re actually acting like Jesus when they do that). I don’t know if I’m making sense or just going in circles, lol. So how about an example…We saw Livia wanting to help Lilitu’s family. That’s a virtue, despite her brokenness (we’ll just ignore the fact that she was head-over-heels for him in this case XD). Near the beginning of the book, we see Sef let the Pythonos take her away instead of her mom. That’s a virtue! (Now, I suppose that was before she was broken, but I think it still counts, lol). Or Aubrielle wanting to keep herself and her sister safe. Or Marcurious swooping in to save Liv and her sister (before he saw how pretty they were 😉 )
So I guess my point is, your characters do have virtues whether you notice them or not. But it’d be nice to see those a little more.
Again, this is just my opinion and I’m trying to help you think through some things. You have the freedom to do whatever you want!!
This was intentional too hahaha
Marcurious is a tough nut to crack lol…*tries to figure out how to explain this*
and he’s not a “prince”. He despises his title and now he’s falling into “reckless living” kind of like the prodigal son (bad analogy, but it’s all I could think of) I know that scene needs smoothing over, but it made me laugh so I kept it. Even though I know it’s sloppy.
You’re also not supposed to like Marky. Not yet anyway. He has a lot of character development to do lol
Ok that’s fair! I trust you with this one and see what you’re trying to do. (Not that I don’t trust you with the other ones, I just don’t have anything to ramble about on this point XD)
Also, I totally get the keeping a scene because you like it. I did that with one see in WAtW and even though I might not keep it, it’s still a favorite. XDD
Another thing I did on purpose XDXD
If I were to reveal that, it would take too much away from what the Pythonos really are about, and who they really are. I do foreshadow that a lot, but you won’t find that out until the end.
I know I don’t foreshadow perfectly, but there’s a reason you’re confused, and I’m going to work on that XDXD
Ok awesome! I love it
That’s also foreshadowed, and there’s a looooonnng explanation for that. It will all make sense in the next half of the book.
Ohhhh waaaaiiittttttt…..
This wasn’t the whole book?????
Ok that actually explains a lot, lol! I was going to tell you something else that I noticed, but knowing this isn’t the full draft totally destroys the validity of what I was going to say. XDXD
The problem with this is that grief, for me at least, causes me to shut down and go numb. I was trying to represent this, but I wasn’t sure how so I think it came across as if both girls didn’t care.
Sef is so damaged mentally that she doesn’t really have the ability to feel things very well. And Livia’s still in denial, holding on to hope that her parents are alive. Both of them are avoidant and won’t be able to fully let grief settle in until a pivotal scene I haven’t written yet. XD
Alright… That makes sense!
I guess I just wouldn’t expect them both to react that way. I get what you’re saying about Sef, but you could always include more of that grief before she starts mentally breaking down. 🤷🏻♀️ Just an idea.
With Liv, I feel like it totally fits her character to shut down when it comes to grief. So maybe just mention her parents more in her thoughts as the book goes on? Because when the author doesn’t show me that the character is even thinking about them at all, I get the impression that the character has just become cold-hearted to the whole thing orrrr completely forgotten. 😅 Again, only my opinion though!
But with knowing that this isn’t the whole book, that does change my perspective a little bit.
I also hope I didn’t come across as rude or brushing you off…I really do appreciate your thoughts because that means I need to work on foreshadowing! And explaining my book to others helps me flesh out my thoughts a little more! Thank you so much! <3
No no no! Not at all!! I’m hoping I don’t come off that way in this post, lol 😅
I’m super glad I was able to help though!! From seeing how others critique my work, I’m learning how to read others’ well and provide actually good feedback. So it’s actually encouraging to hear that I was able to help a little bit, lol!
Anytime girl!! <3
Write what should not be forgotten. — Isabel Allende
Bro, I was literally like smashing the submit button and it took forever for that response to post 🤦🏻♀️🤣
Write what should not be forgotten. — Isabel Allende
Now, you mentioned your characters not knowing God. And I liked how you put that—“without God there is no hope.” But…you have to think that these characters are probably looking for hope, right? Even just an occasional thought of wishing there was a way out of this darkness they’re living in.
So I know with where they’re at right now, they can’t actually cling onto a true hope, but even just them wondering if there is hope beyond this darkness, is a good way to sprinkle in that hope without changing the tone.
Mmmm…that does make sense, I’m just not sure how to do that.
Instead of “hope”, my characters are trying to fix their problems themselves. Which might be a “false hope”, but I don’t really see it as hope. I understand what you mean, I’m just not exactly sure how to do that.
And I totally understand if you want to keep it the way you have it. I just want you to know how I’m seeing it and what I think would work well. But you’re the author girl!! It’s completely up to you! I just wanted to give you some things to think about, but I won’t be offended if you don’t go with what I suggested. It’s your story!!
Okay, thanks for your input! I will keep that in mind for when I have the draft written through and I’m going back to do rewrites!!!! I think I’ll be able to see what i want to do with it once I can see the big picture. It’s hard to tell what to do with it when I’m not even into the main MAIN plot yet and barely to the halfway point lol
Ok that’s fair! I trust you with this one and see what you’re trying to do. (Not that I don’t trust you with the other ones, I just don’t have anything to ramble about on this point XD)
Also, I totally get the keeping a scene because you like it. I did that with one see in WAtW and even though I might not keep it, it’s still a favorite. XDD
Here’s a little bit of Marcurious’s character outline, just because I want to explain a little more XD
—Marcurious is an Erstonian prince who was emotionally abused by his father, the king.
—He was trained roughly as a young boy, and convinced himself that he loved fighting in tournaments, when really, he only wanted to prove himself and earn his father’s approval.
—Because he threw himself into being good at EVERYTHING to please his father, he often acts full of himself because he IS the best…yet subconsciously he has self-doubt because he knows that he will never be able to prove himself to his father.
—He has a mother, but she was never a part of his life, and he grew up learning to care for himself.
—He never had many friends growing up, so he learned to defend himself and tends to think that he’s unstoppable alone, and that people slow him down.
—His father only cared about what he could DO…and only treated him as if she had any worth if Marcurious did what HE wanted. Marcurious really doesn’t like fighting or violence, but he feels like if he is himself, people won’t love him.
—Although he acts full of himself, he’s really lost and insecure on the inside, and constantly doubts himself
—He has a constant fear of failure
—He has a fear that when people see him for who he really is, they won’t want him.
—He has a hard shell and never lets anyone see how he really feels.
—He had a girlfriend, Emilia, but he never really loved her. He only dated her because she made him feel better about himself, and she was high-born.
—His father approved of their relationship, and Marcurious thought if he continued and married Emilia, then maybe his father would somehow love him more.
So basically, Marcurious has never had a good relationship with people. He might be acting super rude and inappropriate on the outside, but on the inside he’s struggling with self-doubt and self-deprication. I don’t even think he realizes that yet. His only experience with love is using people to get what he wants, as that’s how he’s been treated and expected to treat people.
I am going to be showing more of his internal struggles later on in the book, and adding more into various scenes on my rewrites, because I know I don’t really do a good job of showing what his character REALLY is. So don’t worry, I’m gonna work on that XD
Ok awesome! I love it
yayyyy!
Ohhhh waaaaiiittttttt…..
This wasn’t the whole book?????
Ok that actually explains a lot, lol! I was going to tell you something else that I noticed, but knowing this isn’t the full draft totally destroys the validity of what I was going to say. XDXD
OMC
YOU THOUGHT IT WAS THE WHOLE BOOK?!?!?!?!
I guess I wasn’t really clear on that, but that never occurred to me that you thought it was the whole draft!!!
Yeah, we’re not even HALFWAY through the book… *coughs* my book’s gonna be really really long lol
I guess I just wouldn’t expect them both to react that way. I get what you’re saying about Sef, but you could always include more of that grief before she starts mentally breaking down. 🤷🏻♀️ Just an idea.
With Liv, I feel like it totally fits her character to shut down when it comes to grief. So maybe just mention her parents more in her thoughts as the book goes on? Because when the author doesn’t show me that the character is even thinking about them at all, I get the impression that the character has just become cold-hearted to the whole thing orrrr completely forgotten. 😅 Again, only my opinion though!
But with knowing that this isn’t the whole book, that does change my perspective a little bit
Yeah that makes sense.
So Sef at this point is just so broken that she’s used to darkness, so just a little more isn’t anything different. It’s just intensifying Iver’s hold on her (which you’ll understand later on). It wouldn’t make sense for her to break down, because she’s so broken already.
Livia is on the run from Pythonos, so she’s so stressed right now she can barely think about her parents, and has to focus on the next thing, if that makes sense. I do sprinkle quite a bit of grief in it though, even if it’s not noticeable in this first draft.
No no no! Not at all!! I’m hoping I don’t come off that way in this post, lol
Oh nooo you didn’t! And I’m glad I didn’t either <3
I’m so glad I can talk to you though because it helps me solidify my *big plans* *maniacal laughter*
This lady thrives on the divine grace of Faith and the rich embrace of caffeine.
Doesn’t everyone have at least a fragment of virtue though? (Sorry, I don’t mean to shut down everything you’re saying, this is just my thoughts. 😅) I’m not saying they have to be someone that the readers will look up to and be like, “Oh my word I want to be just like them.” I understand mankind is sinful and there probably are people out there that have gone so far in rejecting God that they just can’t be a good person. But I don’t believe your characters are at that point.
That’s true…and that does make sense!
In other books, the story is more “rooting for the characters” based. But in mine, the story is way more “flaw based”. Hopefully that makes sense? Their flaws are way more important to their story than their virtues are, if that makes sense.
Honestly a lot of my character’s “virtues” stem from their flaws in a way. I’ll have more time to explain later, but I have to get to my next class lol
This lady thrives on the divine grace of Faith and the rich embrace of caffeine.
*Watches conversation from afar* Hm… *Peeks in* @savannah_grace2009 have you ever heard of Promise, Progress, and Payoff?
"If I don't like something, it's probably sanctification. Ugh." -E.C.S.
no I haven’t!!!
This lady thrives on the divine grace of Faith and the rich embrace of caffeine.
I think Esther’s comments have a lot to do with the ✨Three Ps✨ but I have to think about it some more
"If I don't like something, it's probably sanctification. Ugh." -E.C.S.
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