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it’s right above where HighScribe says “no spoilers” and right below the post where you said this:
I don’t think this was on your radar when Cass was first introduced, and in several of the early chapters. (am i right?) so, you need to show a little bit of that in him. just a teeny bit. Maybe he can’t stand it if one of hios brothers is better at him in something. Or…. maybe he could really cut Elroy down. Make him the laughing stock for everyone and shut him out. Elroy is the biggest competition in the family. But, you could do this so skillfully that the reader (because Sef and Lilitue join in on that when Cassian starts it) will kinda side with cass and be blind to the truth. ya know? Right now, Cassian seems a little too perfect, and I feel like the reader will feel cheated because these things weren’t there to begin with.
So just scroll up XD
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333OH. so I didn’t have to go from page one and work my way up.
You could have said that sooner.
Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God
It’s been a bit since I gave you any feedback, so sorry about that. (It was partially KP’s fault—everything was super messed up and I couldn’t post.) I am going to try to do a feedback session tomorrow morning. I have been reading everyone’s comments though, and I wanted to jump in here.
In regards to the Cassian discussion (IF YOU’RE A NO SPOILERS PERSON, STOP READING HERE), I think that’s all a really good idea, but I have one additional suggestion: I think that at the end, you should redeem him. You don’t have to—there are Christians in real life who leave God and never come back—but I think it would be good for several reasons. On the most basic level, it’s a “happier” ending. But beyond that, I think you should show that no one is ever too far gone to be saved. It doesn’t have to be Cassian, but among the characters you have introduced so far, he’s the best candidate in my opinion (a character we once liked, we will hate more when he betrays us, compared to a character we never liked.) For maximum poignancy, make us hate him so much that we just want him to die, and then bring him back from there.
And if you do happen to have something like this planned already, you don’t have to tell us. This is something that would work better if we don’t know it’s coming.
So, that’s just something for you to consider. Like I said, I’ll try to get caught up tomorrow.
🏰 Fantasy Writer
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📚 Appreciator of BooksLilitu was kind of my “you’re never too far gone” person, because his parents are Jraldath and Selena! There’s going to be this epic confrontation scene where he wrestles with the knowledge that he was meant to be evil from the moment he was born. Does that work? Or do I still need Cassian?
Because that’s a good idea, but I feel like Pythonos becoming good again kind of is a plot hole. If someone is pure evil, and has already COMPLETELY given themself to Satan, how can anything convince them of the error of their ways when they have lost the ability to feel any regret or care about anything other than themselves?
OR MAYBE Sef and Lilitu choose to forgive him and love him even though he’s betrayed them…(actually I think I’ll do that with Cass, because everyone’s gonna be like WHAT YOU SHOULD HATE HIM HE DESERVES TO DIE)
sorry if that didn’t make any sense whatsoever XD I had too much caffeine
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333I said it was a couple posts back….XD XD I thought it was clear 😬😂😂
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333I like their character arch! It sounds great!
I also agree with Jonas, especially if Cass is a Peter-type character. Ok, ultimate redemption––– Cassian is touched by Elroy, (Or one of the others, but i particularly like Elroy for this because he is kinda the family “nobody”) and through Elroy’s faith and selfless actions, Cassian is once again drawn back toward Christ. It is then that God reaches out to him and––– oh, oh, oh!!!! ELROY DIES FOR HIM!!! Oh yes!! Have a situation where Cassian gets on the wrong end of the master or something, and Elroy is there, and Elroy steps in the way of Cassian and the death-blow, or something like that! That is the shock of cold water that wakes Cassian up to what he is doing and he throws himself at the mercy of Christ and receives forgiveness.
Or, if Elroy doesn’t die, then you could have Cassian touched by him and/or the others, have a wakeup shock, maybe if he sees them torturing one of his brothers or Sef, idk. Then, HE could die to save them.
IDK, I think either of those could be so awesome!
However, your book, you do what you like.
Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God
But Cass becomes a Pythonos, so there’s no redemption. At least, i can’t think of a way that he could be redeemed.
(See post above where I replied to Jonas)
NO I AM NOT KILLING ELOY NO NO NO I love him too much ahhh
Also…Cass doesn’t just get tortured.
He HELPS TORTURE THEM. So that won’t really work…
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333Pythonos could become loyal to the Great One again…but why would they want to? They lose all ability to love or care or feel regret and are consumed by evil and the desire for power. I just don’t know how that could work without digging a hole for myself XD
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333Fine. But sometimes the good characters gotta die.
But there’s a problem there. When we chose to live in sin, or even directly comit evil, there is still hope for us until death. Even the vilest of sinner can be redeemed by the blood of Christ. If you make Pythonos unredeemable, you are almost saying that the blood of Christ is not enough for them. You know? Which is why redeeming Cassian could be so great! It shows there is nowhere you can go where He cannot save you.
Where shall I go from your Spirit?
Or where shall I flee from your presence?
If I ascend to heaven, you are there!
If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!
If I take the wings of the morning
and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
even there your hand shall lead me,
and your right hand shall hold me.
If I say, “Surely the darkness shall cover me,
and the light about me be night,”
even the darkness is not dark to you;
the night is bright as the day,
for darkness is as light with you.As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us. Psalm 75:6
There IS hope for Cassian. He cannot run far enough, he cannot go deep enough, and he cannot sin to terribly for the Lord to save him.
Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God
Lilitu was kind of my “you’re never too far gone” person, because his parents are Jraldath and Selena! There’s going to be this epic confrontation scene where he wrestles with the knowledge that he was meant to be evil from the moment he was born. Does that work? Or do I still need Cassian?
My problem with that is that evil isn’t hereditary in real life, and what’s more, his parents weren’t Pythonos when he was born, so it’s not exactly true that he was “born to be evil.” And it’s also not the same as going all the way evil and coming back.
Because that’s a good idea, but I feel like Pythonos becoming good again kind of is a plot hole. If someone is pure evil, and has already COMPLETELY given themself to Satan, how can anything convince them of the error of their ways when they have lost the ability to feel any regret or care about anything other than themselves?
Obviously, there is no real world analogue to the Pythonos, but I don’t think that there’s any point in real life where you are beyond God’s power to save. It’s your story obviously, but I see the Pythonos as an allegorical representation of turning away from God in general, but not necessarily requiring you to be a demonic level of evil.
I don’t know what your theology is, but there is a theological doctrine called Total Depravity, which, in brief, says that all aspects of each person is fallen, and that we cannot even choose to accept God’s mercy without his help. So, Cassian wouldn’t even need to be able to choose to turn back on his own. Off the top of my head you could do something like: at the darkest point in the story the main characters are in big trouble, but at the last moment, God revives the last bits of Cassian’s goodness, which lets him make a final sacrifice. I think something like that could work really well.
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📚 Appreciator of BooksI also do like @ellette-giselle ‘s idea with Eloy.
🏰 Fantasy Writer
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📚 Appreciator of BooksThanks @jonas
Yeah, I think we just hit the major plot-hole. I think you need something between Pythonos and people. You see, even the most depraved of people do not become demons. They can certainly become demon possessed, but they themselves will not become demons. And Christ has the power to cast out demons. (I can find references to that if you like) Sooooo, there needs to be something separating people and demons. Either the people are the Pythonos and the demons have a different name, or vice-versa. Now, the demons can certainly order the people around and fight with them, but the people do not become demons.
This could create some really cool scenes.
Cassian helps torture the others you said? Ok then, Cassian swears loyalty to the Master, so he is now under the master’s control and under the demon’s control. This is when you could have scenes where one of Cassian’s tests is to join into the evil they are doing. He’s going to feel a little guilty about it at first, and he’s not going to be able to make eye-contact with the other three. He is going to become enraged because he feels guilty and can still sense he is doing wrong. the rage leads to violence and hate toward the others because their faith makes him feel guilty for turning his back on his own. See the mess we’re getting into?
I still think Elroy should die, btw.
Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God
Yeah, I think we just hit the major plot-hole. I think you need something between Pythonos and people. You see, even the most depraved of people do not become demons.
To be fair, it is an allegory, and not everything needs to be a one-to-one correlation. I personally don’t have a problem with Pythonos representing both demons and evil people. Although I would have a problem with saying that any person is irredeemable.
Sooooo, there needs to be something separating people and demons. Either the people are the Pythonos and the demons have a different name, or vice-versa. Now, the demons can certainly order the people around and fight with them, but the people do not become demons.
That could get overly complicated and confusing. If it’s necessary, Sara could just say that there’s a distinction between Pythonos who are evil people and Pythonos who are actual demons.
I still think Elroy should die, btw.
I do think that could be a powerful scene, but if Sara has a reason for not having him die (aside from her stated reason of liking him too much) then it doesn’t have to happen.
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📚 Appreciator of BooksOk, I could agree with that. The people do need to be redeemable though.
Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God
But there’s a problem there. When we chose to live in sin, or even directly comit evil, there is still hope for us until death. Even the vilest of sinner can be redeemed by the blood of Christ. If you make Pythonos unredeemable, you are almost saying that the blood of Christ is not enough for them. You know? Which is why redeeming Cassian could be so great! It shows there is nowhere you can go where He cannot save you.
I never said that they weren’t reedemable (edit: I did say that about Cass…but I didn’t mean that they could NEVER be saved. I wasn’t thinking…sorry for everything…I’m so mad at myself now!!!) I justmeant that it would be more difficult. Like Jonas said, it would be a cool thing to have Cass be redeemed, because God is stronger than the darkness in Cass. I didn’t mean to imply that they can’t be saved! I just meant that they wouldn’t have any draw to be saved, so they can never be saved on their own. It would take God performing a miracle and doing His thing to draw them back to them.
The Bible says that if we deny Him, He’ll deny us. He is still faithful and waiting for us to come back to Him, but once we deny Him it makes it more difficult for us to come back to Him.
Idk if this makes sense to you guys but it makes perfect sense to me…maybe that’s my problem XD
My problem with that is that evil isn’t hereditary in real life, and what’s more, his parents weren’t Pythonos when he was born, so it’s not exactly true that he was “born to be evil.” And it’s also not the same as going all the way evil and coming back.
I didn’t mean that it was hereditary. Lilitu believes that it is, because of that confrontation scene, the Pythonos try to break him by telling him these lies, making him question himself. Does that make sense? I think that people can have predjudice against others because of who they are related to. So it’s showing that even though people can come from a long line of sinners, you can still be saved and break the chain.
I don’t know what your theology is
It’s okay, I don’t know either 😂😂😂
Honestly I feel like I’m a fairly new Christian (even though I accepted Jesus when I was four), because only a couple years ago did I really commit to trusting Him fully. But that’s not the point…
You guys…I never meant to commit heresy or anything…please don’t burn me at the stake, I’m just playing around with it and I’m not trying to say that God’s not all powerful! Sorry 😬😬
Yeah, I think we just hit the major plot-hole. I think you need something between Pythonos and people. You see, even the most depraved of people do not become demons.
Like Jonas said, this isn’t a direct correlation. Pythonos do, in fact, represent evil people AND demons. No person is irredemable, as I said earlier in this post. God can save anyone!
I do have a reason for not having Eloy die. I’m not going to kill him, period. Sorry 😂😂😂
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333
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