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I want my allegories to be recognizeable for Christians, and its okay if others see it too, but it’s not going to follow the Bible exactly, and hidden to some extent. So it’s totally fine if lots of people recognize them! I guess it doesn’t matter, however I want to make the Bible/Bible stories interesting and exciting for those who have had stereotypes (or just haven’t heard it before) against Christianity.
I think that “magic” is a very fine line between good and evil. On one hand, God says not to use magic or witchcraft, so therefore it’s from Satan, but God does give supernatural abilities and ‘powers’ to some (like miracles and spiritual gifts). It’s hard to explain, but in my opinion magic should never be condoned because it is so easy to get pulled into that kind of thing, and what we write influences our readers. There are real witches who do real magic and that’s never to be treated lightly. But I think that “powers” and special abilities are okay, as long as it doesn’t have spells or involve witches, or basically anything that the Bible says is wrong.
I think that Biblical magic and modern magic are the same, but to an extent. For example, I think a character having fire powers is okay, but a character who casts a spell to be able to have the power, or is a witch is not.
I believe that some allegories are fine to include magic, but just for my beliefs I am choosing not to portray magic as “good”. It depends on where it’s coming from, what it’s used for, and what the Bible says about it.
Anyway, I agree it’s a controversial topic. What do you think abut magic?
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333I love the name Lilitu as well! Another one of my favorites in my story is Sef, and I absolutely love Ottoline’s name!!! And Marcurious. I guess I might be a little biased, haha!
But thank you! I’ll pass on the message to Lilitu…haha! Right now he and Sef are running through the woods to evade the Pythonos. He’s a little busy, but when he’s not I’ll tell him, LOL
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333I want my allegories to be recognizeable for Christians, and its okay if others see it too, but it’s not going to follow the Bible exactly, and hidden to some extent.
Yeah, that works 😄
But I think that “powers” and special abilities are okay, as long as it doesn’t have spells or involve witches, or basically anything that the Bible says is wrong.
So you’re saying magic, as in “anything without explanation and fantastical” is okay as long as it isn’t obviously evil? What do you think about stories with magic, and without an obvious God-figure?
I agree that anything the Bible says is evil should definitely be left alone, if maybe studied from afar.
I think that Biblical magic and modern magic are the same, but to an extent. For example, I think a character having fire powers is okay, but a character who casts a spell to be able to have the power, or is a witch is not.
Like you said, a very fine line 😅
I guess I disagree with that. I think it’s fine to have magic systems which cast spells and use similar mechanics to witchcraft, because it isn’t the mechanics themselves which are evil. For example, I enjoy Harry Potter, and I think it’s innocent of all the heretical stuff people have accused it of. Yes, the author calls it witchcraft. But it isn’t really witchcraft at all, because it is written in an obviously fictional and humorous way, doesn’t connect at all with Satan, and, most importantly, demonstrates a childlike clean-cut good side and evil side.
(I’ve read books considered more Christian than Harry Potter, which have much more questionable morals.)
There’s this delicate balance, where on the one hand, it’s like, “some magic is real and should be avoided,” but on the other, ” a lot of magic in stories is completely fictional and isn’t going to tempt you as much as you think it will.”
…If that makes sense? 😂
But to each his own, and I must not speak any farther. *Shuts trap*
I’ll pass on the message to Lilitu…haha! Right now he and Sef are running through the woods to evade the Pythonos. He’s a little busy, but when he’s not I’ll tell him, LOL
Oh my… I wish them the best of luck! *Calls out* DON’T DIE IN THERE!!
Names are so fun (and hard!) to invent 😂
“Everything is a mountain”
You’re right, I think it all comes down to personal opinion and morals and your own personal boundaries. If someone wants to write about magic, I would say go for it, as long as they’re careful. And I agree that it is very controversial. I’ve just chosen not to put “good” magic in my story, because that’s just what I believe and what I’ve been taught (and because I’m not sure if I’m mature enough to do otherwise).
So you’re saying magic, as in “anything without explanation and fantastical” is okay as long as it isn’t obviously evil? What do you think about stories with magic, and without an obvious God-figure?
Well, when you put it that way, technically to nonbelievers, the miracles of Jesus were “magic” in that sense. So yes, I would say as long as they’re not used for evil intent, and of course in line with what the Bible says, then I would say they’re okay?
It is indeed a very fine line, so I just tend to want to stay as far away from the “line” as possible to avoid any theology issues, if that makes sense.
I’ve never read Harry Potter, because I’m not allowed to right now-my parents are kind of strict (that sounds bad, but it’s not really, i just don’t know how else to put it, haha) about what they let me read or watch. I guess they just don’t approve of witchcraft and stuff in those books. I think that for believers who are firm in their faith, that it’s for sure to read stuff like that, because they know what is true. I just don’t want to accidentally influence others in my stories (because its an allegory and based off of what God tells me to write and what I read in the Bible for inspiration). But I do agree that there are many good books with that kind of thing.
Like you said, it all comes down to personal opinion.
Oh my… I wish them the best of luck! *Calls out* DON’T DIE IN THERE!!
LOL! 🙂
I suck at inventing names, so what I end up doing is searching “strange/weird names” on google and see what pops up. Sometimes I take a name and switch a few letters. Like I changed Azure to Azuri and it fits perfectly!
I also hate making up languages. So I look up latin roots and add a couple letters to hide them and there you go!
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333Sorry, i’m not good at explaining things, especially my stories! All I know is that Earth is the same Earth, and I think that Adam and Eve don’t exist either in “stories” or anything. I think that I’m trying to make this story for the secular world to speak truth (i think sometimes if the world knows that somethings from the Bible, they won’t want to even try to read it, so I’m trying to “sneak” truth past the barriers of their mind, so to speak.
Fair enough, forgive me for trying to pick out all the details about it. That reminds me of an idea for a universe I had that would be a truly entropic reality as many atheists believe in, which even lead to things that resemble life, however nothing could become truly sentient, until God/gods/creators of some kind came down and created sentient beings. It would be an idea to show that the concept of consciousness while perhaps being within an entropic system, could not itself be truly entropic. I wouldn’t talk about it directly, but that would be at least one of the implications.
In the Bible, it says that Satan fell from heaven because of greed: he wanted to be like God. That’s the same theme I’m going for: the Pythonos, especially Jordan, but mainly Pythonos in general are to represent Satan and his angels of darkness in my allegory. So no, there’s no redemption. Also, another theme in my story is that magic is always bad, because it’s not from God, it’s from Satan, because often people are decieved into thinking that magic is good, not bad. I know it can be portrayed as good and still be a story for God, but that’s just not what I’m going for.
Makes sense. Though that leaves me with some questions about the first chapter still. Why give Jordan and his wife such a beginning? Despite making it obvious that they are evil, you’ve humanized them by giving them a dying child, and having them feel grief. Also, why did you project Kratos in a negative light almost directly, when referring to him as a snake, when he was rejecting the couple. Was he wrong, and should have helped them? That would be a good theme if it is a ‘love your enemy’ story, if that’s what your going for. Or was it because he was once involved with the pythonos like you alluded to? I can guarantee I’m not the only one that will think that the pythonos feel remorse deep down from the chapter you gave, so is that intentional, and you intend to clarify that later, or is that just not how you understand things like good and evil, and you thought it would be clear enough?
The magic thing makes sense. It’s hard because magic is a very vague term, but I understand what your saying, because in it’s original core, it’s fake power and authority, a mockery of God’s true power, so I’m all for that.
And the second chapter…yes, in Andromeda, the trees are alive, living “intelligent” creatures. It is considered evil and cruel to deliberately kill one, which is why it was such a big deal. They are kind of representing angels of light, but not totally. Just a shadow, if you will. And they will bleed if killed. So I’m not sure if I need to do a better job of explaining this in my story?
Cool! No need to explain it more, it was straight forward enough with enough intrigue, I was simply asking for curiosities’ sake.
And Lilitu has the same backstory as Moses, but I’m not sure if he’s going to lead his people out of captivity…yet. I’m more of a “pantser” than a “plotter”, if you will, so that’s why I might not have any plans for the future set in stone.
Yeah, that’s fine, we all have different ways of writing, but you have been clearly following the skeleton of the Bible stories here an there, so it could be cool to embrace, but that’s up to you.
Thanks for the help! And sorry my answers are confusing. Like I said, I don’t always have everything figured out, and I’m also terrible at explaining my stories. My family can vouch for that. Haha!
Lol, that’s alright, thanks for bearing with my questions!
Excellent points! Yeah, I don’t think that’s wrong either, I was never denouncing it, I was simply acknowledging that fact to indicate how it makes sense to me that Adam and Eve would be painted differently. The mere fact that you and I talk at all shows that it’s ok to have differing views and yet still respect one another. I would think that I would be the first to say that actually, because I believe there are grains of light and truth that can be found everywhere, even if it isn’t the fullness of truth.
Especially from my intellectual side, I want to know and understand every view of something so that I can challenge my own view, and grow through the process. From my spiritual side, I almost completely agree as well, but with a slight clause, because there are things out there that can hurt and deafen your spirit from hearing better things, but said things will effect everyone differently, and you must judge by the Spirit to know if it is right for you to personally seek that out or not. I personally haven’t read His Dark Materials less because of it’s views, but more simply because I haven’t gotten around to it, and I might eventually, but we’ll have to see. I will be honest that the concept hasn’t intrigued me too much, and the views do add to that, but Dune also takes an underlining atheistic view, and I love that series, so I might enjoy HDM as well.
I also hate making up languages. So I look up latin roots and add a couple letters to hide them and there you go!
I was enjoying your discussion on magic, but then at the very end you mention not liking to make languages. Could I be of service? Conlanging is one of my favorite hobbies, lol!
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
I’ve just chosen not to put “good” magic in my story, because that’s just what I believe and what I’ve been taught (and because I’m not sure if I’m mature enough to do otherwise).
That’s a perfectly valid reason, and I recognize trying to convince you of anything is just not what this conversation is for – which is fine 😊
I’ve never read Harry Potter, because I’m not allowed to right now-my parents are kind of strict (that sounds bad, but it’s not really, i just don’t know how else to put it, haha) about what they let me read or watch. I guess they just don’t approve of witchcraft and stuff in those books. I think that for believers who are firm in their faith, that it’s for sure to read stuff like that, because they know what is true. I just don’t want to accidentally influence others in my stories (because its an allegory and based off of what God tells me to write and what I read in the Bible for inspiration). But I do agree that there are many good books with that kind of thing.
I like the way you worded that – and don’t worry, I don’t think your parents are crazy or anything 😂 Obeying your parents is more important than anything else at this point in your life.
If you’re worried about influencing others, that’s also a valid feeling and I’m not going to tell you to ignore those precautions.
I suck at inventing names, so what I end up doing is searching “strange/weird names” on google and see what pops up. Sometimes I take a name and switch a few letters. Like I changed Azure to Azuri and it fits perfectly!
I also hate making up languages. So I look up latin roots and add a couple letters to hide them and there you go!
Those are some of my favorite methods!!
I also like just searching for names based on certain letters. I’m super picky, because letters have specific vibes for me, and if they don’t fit the character perfectly, it just isn’t right, you know? 😂
Oh, and trying to put an interesting meaning into the name, something the reader can figure out. Like I gave a character the last name Krataristo, which is just the word aristocrat mixed up a little.
Yeah, I don’t think that’s wrong either, I was never denouncing it, I was simply acknowledging that fact to indicate how it makes sense to me that Adam and Eve would be painted differently. The mere fact that you and I talk at all shows that it’s ok to have differing views and yet still respect one another. I would think that I would be the first to say that actually, because I believe there are grains of light and truth that can be found everywhere, even if it isn’t the fullness of truth.
I guess I assumed you would be the first person to agree with me – so I’m glad that’s right! You seem more open to that kind of thing, without avoiding it just because it doesn’t line up with what you believe (which is something I believe can hinder a lot of learning and thought-processing).
…And I agree with everything else you just said 😂
As for things numbing your spirit, that is something I’ve been keeping in mind. It is a danger others have fallen into in subtle ways, and although I might not fall on one of those paths because I know they’re there, there are multiple ways to be fooled.
“Everything is a mountain”
Makes sense. Though that leaves me with some questions about the first chapter still. Why give Jordan and his wife such a beginning? Despite making it obvious that they are evil, you’ve humanized them by giving them a dying child, and having them feel grief. Also, why did you project Kratos in a negative light almost directly, when referring to him as a snake, when he was rejecting the couple. Was he wrong, and should have helped them? That would be a good theme if it is a ‘love your enemy’ story, if that’s what your going for. Or was it because he was once involved with the pythonos like you alluded to? I can guarantee I’m not the only one that will think that the pythonos feel remorse deep down from the chapter you gave, so is that intentional, and you intend to clarify that later, or is that just not how you understand things like good and evil, and you thought it would be clear enough?
Great points! You got me thinking, and now I’m not sure if this chapter is necessary after all. Or at least, the storyline of the dying child. Because I want to show how evil that Andromeda has become, and the death of his son would also fuel their desires for revenge and why they want to experiment to find a way to change branches. But yeah, I’m not sure how necessary this chapter is. Before this was an allegory, I wrote this chapter to make Jordan a “relatable/sympathetic” villain (I’m not sure if those are the right terms but hopefully that makes sense?). Now that it’s an allegory, I’m not sure if I’ll delete this chapter. I think it’s a good introduction for the Pythonos branch, but at the same time, there are a few plot holes that you mentioned.
What do you think?
Yeah, that’s fine, we all have different ways of writing, but you have been clearly following the skeleton of the Bible stories here an there, so it could be cool to embrace, but that’s up to you.
I probably will add a few more Bible stories, just not sure how many yet. I do know that Zechariah 14 has inspired the ending (the part where a mountain splits in two), but I don’t know exactly where I’m going with this. I do have a skeleton of a plot, but no real details yet.
I was enjoying your discussion on magic, but then at the very end you mention not liking to make languages. Could I be of service? Conlanging is one of my favorite hobbies, lol!
Um…absolutely!!!! I like the idea of making up languages, but I suck at it! So of course you can help, haha!
thanks for the conversation! it’s got me thinking about that kind of thing and i like talking about those kinds of things. Thanks for not getting “offended” like some people these days would when someone disagrees with their opinion. I enjoyed it. 🙂
If you guys are ready for the next few chapters, I have a couple more ready for critiqueing!
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333Yeah, how I think of it is by their fruits you shall know them. But to know the fruits of something, you either have to judge by the spirit beforehand, or you have to put it into practice to know whether it be good or evil. The problem is that while good trees produce good fruit, and bad trees produce bad fruit, there are some things that give perceivably mixed fruit. Like books for example, there can be a big soup of different views and ideas, many good and many bad, but they all stem from different trees, because the book doesn’t produce the fruit itself in most cases. However you can often get a general vibe from the fruits visible.
Great points! You got me thinking, and now I’m not sure if this chapter is necessary after all. Or at least, the storyline of the dying child. Because I want to show how evil that Andromeda has become, and the death of his son would also fuel their desires for revenge and why they want to experiment to find a way to change branches. But yeah, I’m not sure how necessary this chapter is. Before this was an allegory, I wrote this chapter to make Jordan a “relatable/sympathetic” villain (I’m not sure if those are the right terms but hopefully that makes sense?). Now that it’s an allegory, I’m not sure if I’ll delete this chapter. I think it’s a good introduction for the Pythonos branch, but at the same time, there are a few plot holes that you mentioned.
What do you think?
It’s hard for me to say because that was my favorite chapter I’ve read so far, and I think the relatable/sympathetic villain is a great villain arc even if it doesn’t end in redemption. But if it’s meant to be allegorical to Satan’s angels, and they all simply radiate evil, they don’t really need much motivation beyond rebelling against the Great One in every way possible. Do you plan to show, or already have shown in one of the later chapters the specifics of how they fell by the way?
Um…absolutely!!!! I like the idea of making up languages, but I suck at it! So of course you can help, haha!
Great! What language would it be? Would you want a universal Andromedan tongue, or something for each of the groups, or even something else entirely?
If you guys are ready for the next few chapters, I have a couple more ready for critiqueing!
You can post them if you want, but I’m still on a slow burn reading what you’ve already posted, but I’ll probably have some thoughts on your later chapters to share soon!
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
Great! What language would it be? Would you want a universal Andromedan tongue, or something for each of the groups, or even something else entirely?
Just a universal Andromedan language and some magic words.
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333@savannah_grace20009
Interesting, so in that case, what would have allowed a universal language to come about? A grand unification? Maybe just a tongue similar to what is happing with English that simply became more important to know for politics and trade? Also, where do magic words come from? What makes them inherently different from other words? Is there a separate magical language? What gave these words power? Would said language basically become a bunch of taboo and swear words in the other language?
Any other intriguing ideas you have for it?
Also, if it isn’t too inconvenient, could you maybe compile a list of all the consonants and vowels you’ve used in all the existing names you’ve used so far, as well as any others you would like to add?
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
Hey there!
I know this is kinda late, but I’ve read the prologue and the first five chapters. It’s really interesting so far, and I’m pretty excited to keep reading as you share more!
(BTW, Do you like the name Nevaeh? I have a sister with that name, so that was kinda funny to see. lol)
Flaz: *yawns* Did the sun just come up? In the west?
Thank you! Yes, I do like the name and it seemed to fit her character! That’s funny that you have a sister named Neveah! haha
Interesting, so in that case, what would have allowed a universal language to come about? A grand unification? Maybe just a tongue similar to what is happing with English that simply became more important to know for politics and trade? Also, where do magic words come from? What makes them inherently different from other words? Is there a separate magical language? What gave these words power? Would said language basically become a bunch of taboo and swear words in the other language?
The language would be not their main language, but most would grow up bilingual. Most speak only English but some do speak Erstonian (the other universal language), so like I said they would learn both languages. I’m not sure where the magic words come from/what gave them power, but they are only used by the Pythonos when they cast their evil spells. I don’t need a full language for magic, just for a couple spells.
Some magic words become swear words, especially the ones Rishona uses to open the portal. I’m not good at making up languages, so I’m really not sure the answers to your questions, lol. I hope you can help me though, because I need serious help when it comes to conlanging, lol!
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333what do you mean by a list of names and consonants?
Do you mean names of characters?
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333savannah_grace2009
The language would be not their main language, but most would grow up bilingual. Most speak only English but some do speak Erstonian (the other universal language), so like I said they would learn both languages. I’m not sure where the magic words come from/what gave them power, but they are only used by the Pythonos when they cast their evil spells. I don’t need a full language for magic, just for a couple spells.
Ok, so we’ll simply work out a universal Andromedan, and simply acknowledge the existence of other languages, sounds good to me!
Hmm, once again, this doesn’t have to be answered, or even know of in world, but some possibilities could be that it might not be the inherent sounds they’re making, but the purpose the Pythonos/Devil assigned them, if they have that kind of power, using the words as nothing more as vessels they placed their power in, thus tainting it? Or perhaps it is the words themselves, and there is perhaps just seemingly random aspects of reality that are simply evil without reason, as a biproduct of creation or something. There’s a lot of different ways you could explain it, but not explaining it is also fine. You could even point it out directly with a character asking about it, only to find that there is no known answer, leaving it in mystery.
And for the names, I mean everything, yes, names of characters, but also names of peoples, places, spells, or any other words you made up already, at least all of the ones that could be spoken by this language. I need this so that I have a sample of what consonants and vowels the language uses. Then if you could give me any more sounds you would like to add, then I can add that to the mix.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
I like your idea of that the magic words are evil because of the purpose given by the Pythonos. So I might use that? I’m still not sure, haha!
Names of people:
Ottoline, Marcurious, Sparrow, Rishona, Berko, Sef, Lilitu, Neveah, Azuri, Nathan (but he doesn’t count as an Andromedan name cuz he’s human!) Azazel, Indie, Jordan (I need a new name for him, an evil one, so if you could help that would be great!), Selena, Kratos, Cassian, Iver. There will probably be more but I’m not sure at this point as I’m a “pantser” not a plotter, though I’ve made a very sloppy outline.
Names of places/waterways/lakes/oceans/towns:
Places:
Folgerian Mountains, New Andromeda, Alrynin Peninsula, Erstonia, Candia Isles, Indigo Island, Painted Hills (I need a better name for this as well), Alaski Mountains
Waterways/oceans/lakes:
Putvista Delta, Teardrop Lake (needs a better name), Cerulean Sea, Mezmerizing Deep (also needs a better name), Gostall Ocean, Great Folgerian Lake, Worgrand Bay, Centralian Sea, Nordvick Strait, Lake Biske, Farnbron Brook, Farnbtron Lake, Gray River (needs better name, it’s so plain!), Arline River, Beau Brook Gulf, Osceola Sea, Jolgough Ocean., and my favorite: the Infernal Domain.
Towns:
Putvista, Pitt, Alrynd, Aquino, Acomb, Caufall, Azer, Caister, Tywardreath, Pandef, Pythonos, Estrello, Tenby, Lir. As you can tell, I need a LOT more names for towns!
Dark Magic spells:
Dissaros: used to open, close, unlock. lock, move any object. Is not effective on anything alive.
Scisto: To stop. Can be used to stop anything from moving. When directed at different parts of the body, it can stop a heart from beating, lungs from breathing, or with great training and strength, signals from coming from the brain. Very dangerous spell.
Mal de immunos calumangan: This cursed phrase is the words used by Rishona to open the portal, setting off the crumble of Elysium. Sometimes used as “cuss words”, it is said to be cursed and used to curse people, places or just when people get mad!
***since no one but the Pythonos and witches here and there can use magic unless being taught how, some magic words are used as swear words. But I haven’t made up any of these “swear words” yet. Please help, haha!***
Sorry this list is so long and chaotic! As you can tell I need MAJOR help with making my names of places creative yet realistic and with languages. I am so happy you’re willing to help me out! Thank you so much!!!!! 🙂
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333
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