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OK, so thanks for checking out this topic.. any advice/ideas are welcome!
I’m a pretty inexperienced writer, and my story is currently being written out of order. I know the main climactic points, a kinda sweet scene I want (Will be sweet if the build-up is done properly otherwise…😅) and I wrote a scene of my mc crying that I’ll throw in there somewhere because tbh it’s some of my best writing, idk why.
My general problem: I have a lot of exposition information, It doesn’t all have to be in the beginning, but It’s hard to find the right characters to use to reveal it.
It’s a dystopian fiction, set after a civil war that was caused by political division. There are about 8 bunkers connected in an network, but only 2 (the east and west) are important to the plot. They have some long-standing strain from previous political disagreements, and their method of solving it is simply “I never want to see you again”.
By the climax the reader needs:
1. Understand the political division with the east prior to the climax, and understand what part my mc’s dad had in it.
2. This is the hard one. There needs to be a firm foundation of my mc’s, Tauren and Lesli’s relationship. They obviously care about each other immensely, but because they became friends as children, (or in my book, scenes that will end up as backstory) I’m having a hard time finding a meaningful way to show that. I can’t jump right in with Tauren comforting Lesli after her parents break up, It’ll seem cheesy if you don’t already love the characters.
3. They need to understand the district set-up. The west is divided into about 6 districts of different professions, and a shopping/selling central district.
4. That’s kinda alot of beginning information, besides the introduction of Lesli’s family and herself. I remember with reading book one of the wingfeather saga, it took so long to get to the real plot I stopped reading (I came back to it awhile later), because it simply took so long to “get into it”. I don’t want that to happen with my story, but a lot of this information is necessary.
Another thing: Lesli has family issues and lives back and forth between two districts. I honestly think this plot point is here simply because I wanted to wright somebody who would get me. (That being said, her family issues are WORLDS worse than any conflict I have experienced.) Because of that, that issue is something I have had a hard time tying into the whole thing. Her parents broke up because of her dads effort to re-unite the west and east bunkers, and he was rejected for it. It just doesn’t feel like it fits in a lot. I wanted to use this to show how reliable a friend Tauren is, but it’s not as meaningful as it should be because I don’t have any scenes planned for them before that happens (other than some backstory). Like, the buildup and establishment of their relationship isn’t there… and I have no clue how to do that properly.
There’s also a mailman who is super nice, and he kinda “knows more” about how they got where they did than the other characters. I might be able to find a way for him to reveal some of the politics that caused this.
Tauren has a bit of an arc, he’s always blended into the background and thinks that if he ever had to do something brave, he wouldn’t have the guts to pull it off. (Resolution for that in the climax)
Lesli needs a character development arc… I’ll figure it out someday 😂 (I’m thinking it’s that she likes to rely on herself instead of others, idk, or maybe forgiveness?)
I need to come up with a good starting incident that is not shallow (I don’t want a ‘look, now our character goes here, then there.’) but is driving enough to draw in the reader.
Any advice, brainstorming, or ideas help! 🙂
Also if you want more info, feel free to ask! I didn’t want to story dump on yall XP
Random people I’m tagging, disregard this if you aren’t interested in this topic
@rose-everdeen @Folith-Feolin @freedomwriter76 @koshka @Anyone 😀へびは かっこいい です！
Looks like a cool story but I do have a few questions…
- what are the ages of your MCs
- what are the other bunkers besides east and west like
- what are some daily problems experienced by your characters
- what are the cultures of the two bunkers like
- what happened to the Dad it seemed like he was exiled so where is he now
It might be interesting/help with your world building to have narrators in both east and west bunker
Okay, so first thing. Almost every single one of the problems you’re experiencing are a side effect of having a project that’s bigger than your current skillset, and that’s a GOOD thing! It means you’re going to grow a ton through figuring it out!
I experienced these exact issues the first time I drafted a story, and honestly the second time too.
Do remember, you don’t have to nail it on the first go. Things like these usually need to be fixed in revisions, and no matter how you’ll do it, you’ll find things to fix later XD So don’t try to make it perfect, and try to find a way to get the information down in a way your future self can filter through it and fix it.
Okay for more specific answers!
It sounds like you don’t currently have an outline or a very solid plot, so you’re a bit lost with how to get from one plot point to another (which… wayy too relatable, I remember how that was for my first story)
I don’t know if you’re a plotter or a pantser, but I recommend at least giving plotting a try! If it doesn’t work for you, feel free to discard it, but it’s worth a shot!
So, I recommend looking up some things about story structure. This is what really pulled my stories together and helped me get from one point to another. My favorite structure is 15 beats, aka Save the Cat. I think it could help you to read up on it a little and try arranging your plot points into it! That’ll give you some clues of what plot points you need.
It’ll also show you how to structure your characters’ arcs and tie them to the plot.
As for the exposition issues, my personal preference for how to explain them is through narration. Not in huge chunks, but you can just drop in little bits here and there if your MC knows about it. Just give the information as your reader needs it. Don’t see it as all one massive thing, you can just drop a sentence here and there and the reader will get it.
This is the hard one. There needs to be a firm foundation of my mc’s, Tauren and Lesli’s relationship. They obviously care about each other immensely, but because they became friends as children, (or in my book, scenes that will end up as backstory) I’m having a hard time finding a meaningful way to show that. I can’t jump right in with Tauren comforting Lesli after her parents break up, It’ll seem cheesy if you don’t already love the characters.
Okay, I don’t altogether agree that it’ll be cheesy, but I think I see what you mean.
So, something that might help. Think about why they’re friends. What does each one have that helps and complements the other? What do they have in common? Show them bonding over that. Where do they differ? Show how it fits together.
It doesn’t have to be a huge, emotional scene. Again, it’s in the little things.
That’s kinda alot of beginning information, besides the introduction of Lesli’s family and herself. I remember with reading book one of the wingfeather saga, it took so long to get to the real plot I stopped reading (I came back to it awhile later), because it simply took so long to “get into it”. I don’t want that to happen with my story, but a lot of this information is necessary.
As aformentioned, it helps not to give it all at once. I also read the first book of Wingfeather, and iirc, the main issue was that the story took ages to start. You can fix that by having a solid catalyst in the first 20% of the book!
Her parents broke up because of her dads effort to re-unite the west and east bunkers, and he was rejected for it. It just doesn’t feel like it fits in a lot. I wanted to use this to show how reliable a friend Tauren is, but it’s not as meaningful as it should be because I don’t have any scenes planned for them before that happens (other than some backstory). Like, the buildup and establishment of their relationship isn’t there… and I have no clue how to do that properly.
If you don’t feel like it fits, you can take focus off it! Keep it in the story, but instead of making it any big plot point, it’s just kinda a thing that happens. That takes a lot of the pressure off.
Okay, I hope you can find some useful things in that tangle of information XD I remember how it was for me just starting out, and I think the one important thing to remember is that you don’t have to get it right in the first go. If your first draft is unreadable, jumbled junk, you’ve already done WAY more than most people will accomplished in a lifetime! You can fix it later, it just needs to exist!
Anyway, it sounds super fun and I hope you have an awesome time with it!
Oh and a great resource that may help you is ShaelinWrites on Youtube! She’s very knowledgeable and her advice is both simple enough to make sense to a beginner and complex enough that you can keep learning things from it!
Thanks! @folith-feolin
what are the ages of your MCs:
Lesli-18 Tauren~16 (might change that by a year) Keiryn (Lesli’s step-brother)-16
what are the other bunkers besides east and west like
Great question but you’know they just never come into play. The story is focused almost entirely on the west until as Tauren is going up the maze of tunnels up to the surface (the only other option unless he’d like to be quarantined for his disease) He notices the east has been blocked in by somebody, and they are probably missing crucial shipments of non-renewables. Up until then, the people from the east are only briefly shown, and the reader has limited info on them.
what are some daily problems experienced by your characters
Hmm I still need to figure that out more. Tauren’s family are miners, so he does some hard physical work helping his dad at work. Miners generally don’t have a lot of money, so that may be their main problem. Tauren has quite a bit of self-doubt, not sure if that would be a daily problem, but it definitely effects him sometimes.
what are the cultures of the two bunkers like
They both are almost what you would call pacifists, like imagine hating somebody so much you can’t even talk to them, to the point you have to live separately and never see them again, but despite that the method works in keeping the peace.
I would say part of their culture is elders being respected and listened too, however they are pretty practical and know well if a influential person goes senile to stop listening to them. Kids generally can wander about on there own to school/the market district, but beyond that you would have somebody with you. People never discuss politics, because it’s what broke the country in the first place. You wouldn’t even go near the topic, or you would be seen as disrupting the peace they worked so hard to create. Kids generally know that there’s something more than just their bunker, but it’s just one of those questions parent’s don’t answer (except for Lesli’s dad), and if you were to ask an older person about what’s above, they’d probably say something along the lines of: “You don’t want to be there. If you stay too long, you’re skin will turn red and peel off.”
The main difference between the two is that because of Lesli’s dad’s decision to seek alliance with the east, the east is more defensive. They took it as a threatening move. (Kinda like how WW1 kicked off so hard because of the elaborate alliance structure, they wanted to prevent that.) So, yeah. The west has a bad name now, and it’s Lesl’s dad’s fault.
what happened to the Dad it seemed like he was exiled so where is he now
He wasn’t exiled, he’s just disliked. Because of the nature of the group not wanting to disturb peace, it would take alot to exile somebody. Some people are still nice too him, but if they support what he tried to do, they cannot ever tell anyone they support him. He still lives with them, but I think he has had a hard time finding a job, hence why when he gets divorced, Lesli goes to live with her mom not her dad. Her mom has money from an inheritance she kept in a pre-numptual (sorry I can’t spell that) agreement.
Yeah! That’s a great idea. I’ve considered if I wanted to continue the story beyond Tauren’s main arc, I could follow the two main characters of the east and show there experience of realizing they’ve been locked in, and trying to deal with it. Then re-show parts of the story from there perspective.
へびは かっこいい です！
[quote quote=118937]
Okay, so first thing. Almost every single one of the problems you’re experiencing are a side effect of having a project that’s bigger than your current skillset, and that’s a GOOD thing! It means you’re going to grow a ton through figuring it out! I experienced these exact issues the first time I drafted a story, and honestly the second time too. Do remember, you don’t have to nail it on the first go.
Lol thanks for some reasons I felt like I has too get it right the first time 😅
It sounds like you don’t currently have an outline or a very solid plot, so you’re a bit lost with how to get from one plot point to another
YESYES VERY TRUE 😂🤣
So, I recommend looking up some things about story structure. This is what really pulled my stories together and helped me get from one point to another. My favorite structure is 15 beats, aka Save the Cat.
My mom read save the cat for her story and said it was really good! I’ll have to check that out!
Okay, I don’t altogether agree that it’ll be cheesy
Oh sorry that’s just me being self-conscious about the fact I love writing that kind of stuff 😂
So, something that might help. Think about why they’re friends. What does each one have that helps and complements the other? What do they have in common? Show them bonding over that. Where do they differ? Show how it fits together. It doesn’t have to be a huge, emotional scene. Again, it’s in the little things.
Thanks! Good advice.
As aformentioned, it helps not to give it all at once. I also read the first book of Wingfeather, and iirc, the main issue was that the story took ages to start. You can fix that by having a solid catalyst in the first 20% of the book!
I’m having a hard time coming up with a good catylist… I’ll figure it out someday lol
Anyway, it sounds super fun and I hope you have an awesome time with it![/quote]
Thanks for the advice! I’ll check out Shealin Writes!
Oh dear, I totally don’t know how to properly use the qouteing tool 😫
へびは かっこいい です！
Lol thanks for some reasons I felt like I has too get it right the first time
Honestly, it always feels that way, but it’s genuinely not true. If your first draft ISN’T terrible you have more of a problem XD Plus, terrible is kinda a vague word. It’s like with drawing! You don’t look at your first sketch and say ‘oh my drawing is terrible’, no, you go over it and refine it. And you may know from experience that if you try to draw the final product straight from a blank page without any sketching, it’ll end up sloppy and not as good as it could be. So, thinking of it as a first sketch might help 🙂
My mom read save the cat for her story and said it was really good! I’ll have to check that out!
Yes! I love that book, it’s helped me SO much!! I do recommend looking into it!
Oh sorry that’s just me being self-conscious about the fact I love writing that kind of stuff 😂
As you should honestly XD Those are the fun, juicy, emotional parts of the story. My favorite scenes are the ones where someone is sobbing, and I will admit that readily XD
Oh dear, I totally don’t know how to properly use the qouteing tool
Oh gosh, I know that feeling XD
I usually copy the part I want to quote, paste it into the box where you’re typing, select it, and click the ‘blockquote’ icon, third from the left. You should see it move more toward the middle! I hope that helps!
I like your story idea!
Some things I’m curious about:Is there anything wrong with the culture apart from the separation of East and West? Most dystopian books take an ideology and follow it almost like a slippery slope all the way to its worst outcome. So what is the issue so deeply ingrained in your society that Lesli’s dad’s actions were reacted to in this way. Is it fear? I’m intrigued.
Also, what drives your MCs? What does Tauren want? How is that different from what he needs? Likewise with Lesli.
Sometimes when I’m having trouble with plotting I think: I need this to happen, but why does it happen? and I brainstorm from there. Also: sticky notes, white boards, chalk, walls, and random pieces of paper are your friends.
We're all stories in the end. Just make it a good on, eh?
-The DoctorI agree with @e-m-trepke that it’s important for your MCs to have clear motivations. There’s this other Youtube writer called Abbie Emmons. I highly recommend binge-watching her videos. They’re super fun to watch! She emphasizes character development and teaches you how to apply it to every plot device on the planet. I’ve never looked at plot the same again.
And you know, you’re doing awesome for a mid-beginner-writer. I’m very intrigued by your WIP already!
KaPeefers 'til we're old and gray...
I agree with @e-m-trepke that it’s important for your MCs to have clear motivations.
Ok, thanks that really helps. I need to figure that out.
There’s this other Youtube writer called Abbie Emmons. I highly recommend binge-watching her videos. They’re super fun to watch! She emphasizes character development and teaches you how to apply it to every plot device on the planet. I’ve never looked at plot the same again.
Ok thanks! I’ll have to do that sometime!
And you know, you’re doing awesome for a mid-beginner-writer. I’m very intrigued by your WIP already!
Thanks! it’s a total mess 😂 but I’m loving the journey.
へびは かっこいい です！
I like your story idea!
Thanks!😀
Is there anything wrong with the culture apart from the separation of East and West?
Well they absolutely hate each other 🤣 kinda a problem. The best I can explain it is like this: just using American politics for example (this is not set in America, just an example.) Imagine democrats and republicans hated each other soooo much they couldn’t talk to each other without almost killing each other, therefore civil war ensued, the population diminished, and biological warfare (in the form of diseases) made it impossible to live normally. So, the people would scatter into bunkers across the nation to preserve the population. This is pretty much the west and east. They refuse to communicate unless over extremely practical matters, put as much space possible between themselves, and believe any communication will result in horrendous fighting. Neither side is “right” or “wrong” politically. I think it’s worth clarifying this story is set in a bit of a “small world” the characters don’t know about the other people across the country in the same situation as themselves, and those people may never come into play.
Most dystopian books take an ideology and follow it almost like a slippery slope all the way to its worst outcome.
I call my book dystopian, but honestly something like, “Post-utterly-destructive-warfare” would be more fitting. It’s past the previous fighting by a generation, and things have started to become a new normal. But there’s new problems with attempting to raise a generation ignorant of the outside. Basically the parents fear of war is preventing people from returning to an actually normal life. It’s not dreary quite like most dystopians. It’s something I toy with every now and then. I kinda like writing dark scenes, but sometimes they become too much for me 😂, and I don’t think my characters are developed enough to keep up hope.
So what is the issue so deeply ingrained in your society that Lesli’s dad’s actions were reacted to in this way. Is it fear? I’m intrigued.
Yes, basically. It’s like, “If division drove us to war, lets divide ourselves more so we don’t have a war.” So, Lesli’s dad suggesting an alliance as a form of wanting to restart threatens the peaceful separation. Glad it’s intriguing XD
Also, what drives your MCs? What does Tauren want? How is that different from what he needs? Likewise with Lesli.
Goodness, I’ve got work to do with that. That’s a good question. I might need to bring back some idea’s from earlier in the story I dropped. Tauren used to have a twin who was sent off to fight, (Tauren wasn’t strong enough) But I since dropped that part of the plot. It would provide more pathways for his development though. Lesli’s drive is mostly to find out as much as she can about whatever she isn’t supposed to know about. I think she’s slightly reckless, but overall she needs a more clear-cut motivation.
Sometimes when I’m having trouble with plotting I think: I need this to happen, but why does it happen? and I brainstorm from there. Also: sticky notes, white boards, chalk, walls, and random pieces of paper are your friends.
I need to get into that lol. A friend of mine sent me a book of world-building prompts, that’s where I keep those random notes and things. It helps me a lot because I tend to forget to add the things it asks questions about (Exe. What is the currency?)
Thanks for the advice! I’ve got a lot to think about lol…
へびは かっこいい です！
I CAN QUOTE NOW!!
Girl you saved me! 😂🤣
It was going to be hard to reply to the comments here without that.
へびは かっこいい です！
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