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My most current WIP has been coming along really well, and I’ve got a lot figured out, but now I’m struggling with one point.
(I don’t know where to start.)
It is crucial that my MC die in the story (crazy, I know), and he is killed by the antagonist.
My MC has two gifts/abilities which makes him very unique and powerful. He believes that with these gifts, he should be changing the world, and thinks that he hasn’t yet, although he has because he’s been changing peoples’ lives in small ways that in the end result in changes of the world. (He thinks he should be changing it by establishing world peace or something, when really he just needs to keep touching peoples’ lives and changing the world like that.) Over the course of the story, he realizes this and becomes at peace with himself (because he doubted himself since he wasn’t doing very much, he thought).
My antagonist only has one of the gifts that MC has, but he is very renowned for being self-taught (something no one else with either of the gifts is/was, except the first one) and being very skilled despite being self-taught. He goes around doing things that are big (like putting on a huge performance, building a huge and fantastic memorial thing, helping with big political problems; basically everything MC thinks he should be doing) and thinks he is changing the world. (The point is supposed to be that, what he does, most of it will be forgotten/erased with time and isn’t really world changing.) My antagonist sees MC with both his gifts, not appearing to do very much, and gets angry with MC, first for not using the gifts, then for having both gifts at all, then because he believes that MC isn’t gifted by the Almighty but working with the Damned/devil. (He is both being manipulated into these beliefs and vulnerable to them because of his pride and anger against the MC for refusing to train him, at one point. MC had a very good reason to turn him down, and the antagonist wasn’t the only person MC turned down, at that point in his life.)
Close to the end of the story, the antagonist finally catches up with MC and gets the chance to kill him. (And does.)
My problem is, aside from the fact that the antagonist is willing to kill MC and MC refuses to kill the antagonist: I don’t know whether MC would just accept being killed or fight back or what. MC has come to realize that he has changed the world already, and he knows how to change the world more. I don’t know whether he would fight the antagonist to stay alive so he can keep changing the world and living or not bother to fight at all, which seems wrong because he isn’t that sort of person. He could easily overpower the antagonist, because he has more power and experience, but to actually stop the antagonist, who’s hell-bent on killing him, he would have to kill the antagonist, which he won’t do; he won’t kill anyone.
He has lived a full life, and could continue to live a full life, but doesn’t need to. The most demanding thing in his life is his two students whom he’s currently training, but they don’t need him, anymore, because they know enough, even though there is more he could teach them.
I guess what I need is: why does the MC decide to let himself be killed, at that moment, and not try to escape from the antagonist to go get more people so he maybe can restrain the antagonist? Does it seem realistic for MC to accept his death at that point and not fight against it, maybe seeing it as intended by the Almighty?
Now that I’ve written this all out, I’m thinking that maybe MC should try to escape from the antagonist at that point, but the antagonist has enough power to hold him there in the fight, and the only way for MC to get away is by killing him. (MC could easily wipe the floor with the antagonist, if he was willing to kill him.) MC accepts his death and lets the antagonist kill him because he is at peace with his life, and so he dies.
It is very important to me that MC dies, but I want his death to be believable and realistic and meaningful. Does that seem to be those things?
(And sorry, that was long.)
Thank you!
(and now to tag ppl…)
@GodlyFantasy12 @Abigail.M. @Elishavet Pidyon @Unsung @Linyang Zhang @Mary G @Koshka @Keilah H. @Elanor @Annabella @Kathleen"[Write] today like there's no tomorrow!"
@emilysf so I’ve actually started a page for character death discussions because I’m struggling with a character death myself.
I’m not entirely sure I can give much advice because….well just being honest I myself am a bit….confused if that makes sense. But some of that might be it is a LOT harder to explain your ideas on here then what they are in your head (trust me!!)
So…here’s a big question that could potentially answer all other questions.
Is the villain redeemable and would you be willing to ever go down that road? Just a question. I know not every story should have a redeemed villain but it’s just a thought that popped into my mind. It seems to be yes the “easy way,” you could say, but, also not really if you can turn it into something gripping. Again this is YOUR story.
sometimes you have to just think outside of the box and from what I’ve read you seem great at that because having the protagonist actually die is brave (not that it shouldn’t be done of course!)
in fact, you can still have your protagonist die in a redemption arc, I’m sure you can think of some ideas.
or perhaps he sacrifices himself for said students you mentioned, or for something else?
Question- Have you ever heard of the Wingfeather Saga? If not, I highly suggest you read it. HIGHLY. Like, I truly believe this series will immensely help your struggle. The first book isn’t near as good as the others (and trust me when I say don’t bother with reading the footnotes you’ll get bogged down) but if you haven’t read it, go read it. It’s clean, Christian and beautiful. Trust me if you haven’t heard of it or read it I believe it’ll help you out.
anyway those are my thoughts and you’re welcome to join our chat in character deaths and see if any of that helps too.
#IfMarcelDiesIRiot
#ProtectMarcel
#ProtectSeb@emilysf Wow! This was absolutely riveting! And the plot you’ve crafted and woven sounds phenomenal. It’s a little funny too, because in the book I’m writing currently, My MC dies as well!
And as far as your questionings go, I would say that what you were thinking by the end of writing all that out (the idea of having the only way out as killing the antagonist, so he accepts his death) would be what I would have said too! (Although I don’t know anything beyond what you’ve told me, so it’s entirely up to you, but it all sounds like an amazing book! And it does seem to be both realistic, believable, and meaningful.
An idea I had thought of: perhaps MC’s death sparks a revolt against Antagonist, because everyone that MC helped in so many little ways sees that the only reason MC died was because of Antagonist’s malice and resentment and anger, and therefore not even MC’s death was in vain. But that’s just an idea 🙂 It’s your book, so entirely up to you!
My MC’s death is going to make the city’s citizen angry, since her death was literally a murder in cold-blood. (XD dunno why I thought you needed to know that, but whatever.)
Anyway, I hope you can figure out all your questions and that you’ll be able to bring everything together! Keep writing, Girl! It’s hard sometimes, but worth it, I believe!
I hope this helped a little 🙂
~Unsung
No moment is wasted, that is spent on God's glory
I’m not struggling with the death (that is set) but with why he dies.
I’m sorry it is so confusing. I was having a difficult time explaining it clearly.
I do plan on having the antagonist go through a redemption arc, if he can (I’m not completely sure if it is compatible with his character). He will be given a chance to redeem, but it isn’t part of the main story, as of yet.
The reason I’m not having MC die for his students is because they are not in any danger from the antagonist; MC is the only one in any danger, (and anyone who really gets in the antagonist’s way, which there is no one, so far).
Also, MC is a very good person, and very moral, and his main faults are his lack of self-confidence and fear of being unable to fulfill responsibilities he has because of his two gifts. So, he doesn’t have a redemption arc, but a positive arc. (Does that make sense?)
At this point in my mind, if he sacrificed himself, it would be so that the antagonist stops hunting him and hurting people along the way.
I will try to re-explain, more clearly.
The MC will die; that is a given. The antagonist kills him, because he believes that MC is in league with the devil, and this belief has developed for various reasons.
Where I am struggling with is: why does MC let himself be killed, and at least one reason so far is because he cannot escape without killing the antagonist and he refuses to kill anyone.
You have very good suggestions! They just don’t quite touch on my problem. (Which, admittedly, wasn’t very clearly expressed.)
I want to make sure the MC’s reasons for letting himself be killed are realistic, believable, and meaningful. My main concern is that it is he doesn’t have a meaningful reason to die.
I have not read the Wingfeather Saga, but I hope to, soon. Once I can get the books, I will read them. I hope it can help me!
"[Write] today like there's no tomorrow!"
Thank you! I hope it stays that way when I am done writing it! What a coincidence!
It does sound meaningful? Good! 😅 Because that has become my greatest concern.
(I had a similar thought!) While MC’s death won’t spark a rebellion, it will cause much anger against him and he will be very painfully stripped of his gift (painful for him, and for the people doing it bc of how it is done) and made a scarred outcast of the world. That is separate of the sentiments of the citizens of the world and everyone MC helped. The world will shun the antagonist wayyy-ton for killing MC. The MC’s death will be widely commemorated (as is the death of any gifted) and people will come forward everywhere to mention things he’s done.
I have almost everything after MC’s death planned. 😁 And pretty much before. It is just his death itself that I’m worried about. I want to make sure it’s meaningful, most importantly, and I suppose, if it accentuates his morality to the very end (and before), then it is more meaningful …? (I don’t know, but I hope so. 😅)
Ok, to clear this all with myself…
The MC will die because he refuses to escape the antagonist by killing him because he refuses to kill him. Mentally, MC’s ok with dying because he has come to realize that he has changed the world in little, lasting ways (that will continue to change the world, even after he is gone).
So, his death will be meaningful because it will reinforce his moral beliefs and mark the end of his arc.
I think I’ve got it! Thanks so much!! Both of you!
If anyone reads this and thinks of anything else, or thinks MC’s death isn’t meaningful, I’d love to hear your reasons!!
"[Write] today like there's no tomorrow!"
@emilysf Ahhh gotcha. Ok so not sure I can help much but I do think the Wingfeather sag might help. So what happens in it isn’t like your story but it might help anyway I hope.
As for ur motive I mean I think it’ll be fine so long as u can write it well, that’s usually what it comes down to 😊
#IfMarcelDiesIRiot
#ProtectMarcel
#ProtectSebHmmm, if you could write this well it could be powerful, but…hmm. My brain may have exploded over this one. Here are a few questions:
Is your MC dying just because he won’t defend himself/kill someone, or because he sees that Anti isn’t ready to die/has something he needs to do. Obviously someone willing to murder isn’t ready to die, but is there more to that?
Why is your antagonist wanting MCs death? Because he thinks MCs evil, or because he’s bitter so he thinks MCs evil?
Is Anti your true antagonist, or is there a ‘bigger villian’ manipulating him?
Is this a multiple antagonist system book? (Mine are so I understand if it is)
What genre is this book?(which you totally may have already said, I don’t remember)
First Grand Historian of Arreth and the Lesser Realms (aka Kitty)
Fork the GorkI am hoping that I can write this well, and will be spending much time on completing it and perfecting it in the expansive future. 🙂
Is your MC dying just because he won’t defend himself/kill someone, or because he sees that Anti isn’t ready to die/has something he needs to do. Obviously someone willing to murder isn’t ready to die, but is there more to that?
That’s a good question, and now that you ask it, the answer is: because he won’t kill, and additionally because he wants Anti to have a chance to change and not condemn him to [the underworld/hell]. I do not know if there is more to it, but I think that MC would view Anti’s willingness to kill (and crime of killing MC after he does) as a very strong reason not to fight, so that Anti has a chance/time to repent. MC is a very moral person and wants everyone to reach [heaven] (cheesy way of putting it) and so he’d see that as a very good reason not to.
I can see that I’m lacking in that area, now that you ask the question, though, and will give it more thought. 🙂
(The rest, though, I’ve given thought to and have easy, complete answers for…)
Why is your antagonist wanting MCs death? Because he thinks MCs evil, or because he’s bitter so he thinks MCs evil?
He wants MC’s death because he is bitter and thinks MC’s evil. He partially thinks MC’s evil because he’s bitter, but also because he has grown up telling himself that if someone like MC existed, they could only be evil and must be killed.
Is Anti your true antagonist, or is there a ‘bigger villian’ manipulating him?
Anti is being manipulated by a “bigger villain”, a shadow group that detests all people like the Anti and MC and wants to destroy their power/reputation. Anti is able to be manipulated because of his pride and bitterness.
Is this a multiple antagonist system book? (Mine are so I understand if it is)
Kind of…? I think so, but I’m not sure exactly what you mean. There is Anti, who is the villain of the story, but not the real villain, because that is the shadow group. Except, the shadow group is so much of a shadow group that only those in it actually know of it, and there’s only one person who knows almost everything about the group, and they’re sort of the initiator/organizer of the group.
What genre is this book?(which you totally may have already said, I don’t remember)
I don’t believe I did, so that’s a fair question. It is fantasy. 🙂
"[Write] today like there's no tomorrow!"
By the way, I just realized what your profile picture says. XD
That could make sense. I would have this as hammered down as possible before the death scene of course. 😉
If you do ever read the Wingfeather Saga, some of this may clear up. But if you do, enjoy the series, don’t just read it for writing purposes. =) (I will especially emphasize that point being one of those apparently rare people who loves the first book too). There’s actually a point in the series where a character gets into a somewhat similar (though not this far) situation as yours, and I’m not referring to the beloved and hated spoiler.
Ooo, that sounds fun, in a mad author sort of way. I was thinking something like this must have been going on, and could aid should you decide to redeem Anti.
Not exactly. I’m not sure what this is called, but I meant; does your book use different systems of conflict/antagonists? For example, in my book there are several villians for my two MCs, but both MCs (particularly one of them) are often their own antagonist as the theme is mainly choices. I don’t mean struggling with self worth or something of that sort, I literally mean flesh against spirit.
Thank you! I was sort of wondering.
First Grand Historian of Arreth and the Lesser Realms (aka Kitty)
Fork the GorkThank you! I love it, and came up with it myself, but will admit it was somewhat inspired by 3CP-O’s constant negative stating of odds. XD
Of course, and fortunately that is close to the end of the book. I plan on there being close to 3 or 4 years between the beginning and the end. 🙂
I hope it will! And I will be sure to keep that in mind. (Unfortunately, my timeline for getting the books read has been pushed back a few months, but I still hope to read them eventually.) Oh, interesting! (Might I ask who it is that gets in this situation?) Unfortunately, I have read the beloved and hated spoiler. Oops. *sigh* Now I just have to live with it.
Definitely a ‘mad author’ thing, heh. But Anti wouldn’t have gone that far on his own, and considering that this story is based in their entire known world, it only seemed logical that there’d be some sort of group opposed to the groups that Anti and MC belong to, because there isn’t anything in this world that doesn’t have someone resisting it, no matter how right it is. So, voila, *waves hands* realistic secret group manipulating Anti to the point where he is actually acting like a villain. It is definitely a way that I can redeem Anti, because he can claim they manipulated him, but it was also him not fighting so much against the hate and bitterness that allowed them to get him to that point, so he’d have to actually repent.
Uh, I think the answer would be, then, not quite. The main conflicts are between MC and Anti, MC and self (over his lack of self-confident and struggle with what to do as the only ever double gifted), and then through Anti, MC comes in conflict with the shadow group, but the shadow group is more accurately in conflict with the entirety of both gifted groups. MC’s students don’t really conflict with anyone specific, except maybe Anti, because they are MC’s students.
I don’t know if that answers your question, but it might. I think the answer is yes, but I’m not completely sure. (There are no spirit against flesh conflicts in my story.)
Yeah, I didn’t exactly mention that, heh. 🙂
"[Write] today like there's no tomorrow!"
Its awesome!
Ah, that sounds good.
(You may ask, but I won’t tell!) Hmm, similar thing happened to me, but I didn’t read it, I had most of the plotline explained to me by a darling sibling. =|Although I most likely wouldn’t have read it untill I understood the series; I
maybe a bit picky.Oh dear. I just read over how I rephrased my last question and realized that could sound quite strange. I meant something similar bro what you said, MC against self, so I think your answer is yes?
First Grand Historian of Arreth and the Lesser Realms (aka Kitty)
Fork the Gork(ah, well, I tried.) I understand that sort of pickiness. I sometimes am the same way, but in order to finish a book/series.
So, you mean different ‘levels’ of conflict, like physical conflict, mental conflict, and spiritual conflict, then, probably. My WIP does have more than just one of those (and possibly all three, depending on whether I have Anti’s antagonism and reasoning cause MC to have similar thoughts). If that is what you mean, and it seems that it is, then the answer is definitely yes. In fact, the main conflict (the most important one) is MC’s mental conflict, but the more story driving one is the physical conflict between Anti and MC.
"[Write] today like there's no tomorrow!"
Yes! (Why is it so hard to find the right words sometimes?) I shall store that phrasing up for next time. Thank you! =)
Oo, your books sounds good!
First Grand Historian of Arreth and the Lesser Realms (aka Kitty)
Fork the Gork(I know!) You’re welcome.
Thank you! I hope that it will still be after I butcher it in the writing process. XD But, that is what the other drafts after the first one are for. Heh.
"[Write] today like there's no tomorrow!"
Hmmm… I was reading through this, and I came up with another question:
How does your MC’s death affect the antagonist?
Of course, there would be repercussions for committing the act, but on a deeper level, how is Anti affected?
We're all stories in the end. Just make it a good on, eh?
-The Doctor
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