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@not-so-secret-secret-assassin
There’s a lot of interesting points in this post and a lot of things relevant to what makes a good story. So I think its awesome that you wrote this, but sadly, I have never read the Wingfeather Saga before, so I cant really give my input here. But now I think I’m gonna have to to see what’s up with this and find out which side I take XD Thank you for sharing your opinions on this story, it was really interesting to read and has finally making me read Wingfeather!
Thanks for helping me understand a bit better!
Also, sorry if I sounded a bit “un-gracious” there, but I guess what I meant wasn’t anything against the author, but the story. (I’m also a terrible writer, and it would indeed be bad news for me if the notion of improvement didn’t exist). So to rephrase: If the characters, world, and plot already failed to hook me in an entire novel, then it’s hard for me to imagine ever getting immersed and enjoying the story going forward. At least, not as much as the rest of the fanbase.
It was sort of like it was a bad first impression of the series, and it’s going to be hard to shake that first impression. And to me, the first book was too much of an unstable foundation to begin a series.
There weren’t enough interesting ideas and story threads set up in the first book that would have any catharsis or interesting developments in upcoming books.
I don’t even know if that makes sense, but that’s just what I think.
But that’s a bit off topic. I guess my whole point in starting this forum topic was to try to understand why people enjoyed the first book, and what they were looking at when all I could see was all the writing problems I mentioned above.
I don’t want to hate this book. And I’m not sure if I’m ever going to be convinced to continue the series. But I DO want to understand the appeal of this book from writers more experienced than I.
So yeah. I’m just genuinely curious: what did you enjoy about the characters? What did you enjoy about the plot? And what do you think about the criticisms I had in terms of the plot problems, low conflict (particularly the unthreatening Fangs), repetitive plot (particularly Leeli repeatedly getting captured), lack of tension, and pacing? Agree? Disagree?
I just want to get another writer’s opinion.
Thanks for explaining to me your thoughts on the series. This really helped me understand a lot better how this story could appeal to people on a deeper level.
Thanks!
Good idea. What are your thoughts on the Wingfeather books yourself?
🙂
You have chosen well to agree with me.
Actually, yeah, your comment was helpful. Before I was kind of thinking I was going crazy because I was the only one who didn’t like this series. But it sounds like you also had a few problems with it. And I agree: interesting ideas, but not the best book.
Yeah, and I think you’re right about the part that the books are better if you don’t try to analyze them. I might have been expecting too much from a middle grade book. But even then, I’ve read middle grade books that have been a lot more exciting and deeper than this, so I’m confused.
But now I am rambling like a grandpa so I’ll stop now.Glad you enjoy the books!
What do you enjoy about them?
Epic. I am very much eager to read your thoughts. I’m actually very much wanting to hear what you have to say about them.
When you finish the book, please write a follow-up forum topic entitled “Wow! Not-so-secret-secret-assassin is BASED. He was right the whole time!!”
Please.
Thank you.
Have a nice day.
Flawless and handsome (as ruled by my grandmother.)
@not-so-secret-assassin
So haven’t finished the first book as mentioned before, but my dad gave me the first one and said it was one of the most highly rated Christian Fantasy’s which obviously is my genre, and that I def needed to read it so I scooped it up and it is on ma bookshelf! I think the world is honestly really cool along with the storyline but characters are ALWAYS my favorite part. Characters and the story around them. Character dialogue, character scenes, I love character interaction. And This might sound weird but I like guy characters (cuz duh I’m a girl so there’s that 🤣) but I also loves brother relationships, especially big brother and little brothers, so the two boys are my favorite, and I love how he and his bro interact.
also it seems (tho I haven’t made it that far) that Tink plays a bigger role then I thought he would, which I adore because sometimes the characters I end up loving (side charries) don’t end up getting as much “screen time” per say as I’d like!
so ya…
I need to finish it but I haven’t been reading anything honestly so that’s why. It’s not because of that book in particular that I haven’t finished it, just cuz I haven’t been reading at all rlly tho I need to.
#IfMarcelDiesIRiot
#ProtectMarcel
#ProtectSeb@not-so-secret-secret-assassin
The first book is okay. I enjoy the humor and writing even though the plot is a tad blah. The other three books are great. (Though I was kinda annoyed by the last book because nothing seems to go right!!!…. of course I also binge read the series, so by the time I got to the last book I was physically and mentally exhausted [I literally woke up for school one morning after only three hours or sleep {and possibly only three hour the previous night. Don’t remember.} and was being mentally bombarded by names from the book… so I went back to bed. Courtesy of being homeschooled])
You will love what you spend time with.
I also listen to a lot of the Wiggy Feathers saga so the boring parts didn’t really bother me.
(I think I listened to most of them, but I can’t remember… it’s amazing what sleep deprivation will do to your brain.)
You will love what you spend time with.
@not-so-secret-secret-assassin
It was not my intention to leave this for two months before responding… Sorry for the delay. XP
[quote quote=108602]So to rephrase: If the characters, world, and plot already failed to hook me in an entire novel, then it’s hard for me to imagine ever getting immersed and enjoying the story going forward.[/quote]
Peterson’s writing improved significantly throughout the series. Is it disappointing that the hook isn’t his best work? Sure. But short of him backtracking to rewrite the entire first book so that it’s on par with the following books (or else writing another, separate series), really the only way to honestly give his writing a chance is to keep reading. And I do think it gets more immersive, the farther in you go.
[quote quote=108602]It was sort of like it was a bad first impression of the series, and it’s going to be hard to shake that first impression.[/quote]
That’s a fair acknowledgment.
[quote quote=108602]So yeah. I’m just genuinely curious: what did you enjoy about the characters? What did you enjoy about the plot? And what do you think about the criticisms I had in terms of the plot problems, low conflict (particularly the unthreatening Fangs), repetitive plot (particularly Leeli repeatedly getting captured), lack of tension, and pacing? Agree? Disagree?[/quote]
This is why I’m so late responding; I wanted to finish my reread of the first book, and all of my reading has been quite slow lately (plus, by the time I’d finished I… kind of forgot about this thread). But anyway.
As an oldest sibling, I relate to Janner’s responsibility and his feelings toward that responsibility. I can understand the flip-flopping between “I would die to protect my siblings” and “I can’t believe I have to look out for my siblings and keep them from killing themselves… for the millionth time.” So I appreciated the realism of his character and his internal struggle and I connected with him that way.
I like Oskar because he loves books, and he knows a lot about them and he uses that knowledge all the time… even if it’s in a goofy manner in his case.
I like that all of the grown-ups look out for the kids, and the kids see them as important in turn (despite the occasional frustrations that all kids have with their elders). I like that Nia is a strong, feminine character. I like that Podo behaves like someone who has the colorful past that he does. I like Artham’s defense of the kids, and his bit of insanity. Honestly, I like that all of the characters are a little charicature-ish in this book; I think that has its own charm. But I also think (and maybe this is the reread/knowledge of following books talking) that you can see hints of the depth to come, even underneath the more shallow, colorful elements of their characters.
Plot-wise… I don’t disagree that it’s a little weak. It’s an adventurous romp you’d expect of a bedtime story, and it has that almost disjointed, somewhat repetitive feel to it. I’m not a plot-driven reader, so it didn’t bother me too much because I like the characters (and, now, I know that the whole story gets so much deeper and richer the farther you go). The repetition of Leeli’s kidnappings did grow a bit annoying, but… I think my tolerance of it goes back to the impact it has on Janner’s internal struggle; it does sometimes seem, as an older sibling, like you’re constantly fishing your siblings out of trouble. And, while I think there are other ways this could have been done and the precise repetition wasn’t necessary, I think it also helps to establish Janner’s care for his siblings and the weight of the responsibility he feels as we see him sort of panic over his siblings over and over. That panic is a very real feeling and it’s one of the things that grounded me so much to Janner’s character, because I’ve felt that.
Basically, I appreciate On the Dark Sea of Darkness for its realness (even underneath the goofy, colorful trappings). Peterson does a great job of tapping into what it feels like to be a kid, what it feels like to be an older sibling, and funneling that into his characters with amazing accuracy.
But I tend to put more emphasis on characters and theme when I read, and most of your complaints seem to be plot-related. I don’t mind low conflict. I don’t mind lack of strong tension. These days, anyway, I’m looking for a book that reflects truth and beauty and hope more often than I’m looking for a book that carts me into a fast-paced, tense adventure (though obviously a balance of the two is ideal). If your priorities are reversed, it makes sense that On the Dark Sea of Darkness wouldn’t be satisfying.
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
@not-so-secret-secret-assassin
BTW, I want to clarify I don’t mean anything snarky or judgmental by my last paragraph. It was intended to be solely factual. Just in case it came across wrong. XP
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
[quote quote=107376] @not-so-secret-secret-assassin The first book reads like a bedtime story. It’s not the deepest. It’s not necessarily high-quality literature. But it’s fun and it kicks things off. (And I personally enjoyed the footnotes; I found the writing style amusing.) The second book I don’t remember real well except that I wasn’t a big fan of it, but it’s a necessary link between the first and later books and it starts off some of the more significant plot pieces. And then you get to book three. And book three is where things start to get really deep. It’s where you really start to see the struggles of the main characters (unless those showed up in book two, in which case I just don’t remember because that book really is a blank in my mind), it’s where they really become relatable, it’s where you start to see more of the world, it’s where the plot becomes more interesting, it’s where it gains a great degree of emotional depth. I almost never cry at books; the ending of book three choked me up. And all of the strengths of book three carry over and are even deepened in the final book. The themes, the character growth, the ending, they’re all spectacular. I bawled at the end, it was such a skillful emotional payoff and such a moving ending. I can understand missing the appeal of book one; it does rely on personal taste. And I can understand not liking book two, though I don’t remember enough to tell you why. But I promise you that books three and four are worth it. It’s worth seeing through to the end.[/quote]
That sounds like another seris I know of *ahem* wheel of time *ahem
Oh, having reread North! Or Be Eaten I can say I enjoyed it much more this time around and I’m not sure why I didn’t like it as well the first time? It features a culture I enjoyed, more character development for Tink and Artham (a couple of my favorites), and several other fun additions (to the characters, world, and conflict). It’s still not as deep as the last two, but it does start to bridge the gap in style, so if you disliked book one it’s likely you’ll prefer book two even if it’s not your favorite of the series, and, again, the last two are well worth the effort.
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
@not-so-secret-secret-assassin
I’ve never read (or even heard of) The Wingfeather Saga, but what you’re telling me it doesn’t sound that good, but if someone likes it, then they like it.
🦠🔬You can never have too many microscopes!🔬🦠
@not-so-secret-secret-assassin
Okay so just a pre-note to this post- I see you probably aren’t going to continue with the series, so I’m going to talk about this a little more freely than some would. I’m not straight up spoiling at all, but proceed with caution. I make a few hints here and there. I think it might be necessary for you in order to see the potential.
I agree with pretty much all the points you made… but I actually like the series somehow.
I have only read book 1 and 2. I started reading book one because it seems to be some staple book among christian readers. I got bored in the beginning, found the name “Fang” kinda ridiculous, and returned the ebook. Later I got bored of life, and decided a bad book is better than no book 🤣
I read both book 1 and 2, but the only thing really driving me to keep reading was Artham’s story. I really wanted to know what happened too him. And I wanted to understand why Podo is so Podo. Other than that, I didn’t have much of a reason to continue. I always find it interesting people are like, “I don’t remember book 2, but 3 and 4 are great.” Because book 2 had some really important stuff in it. It was almost too dark for me (I’m reaaaally sensitive lol) The only characters that really intrigue me are Artham and Janner. That’s not much out of the series but it’s been compelling enough to keep me reading. The reason I haven’t finished the series is because it was stressing me too much 😂. Am I the only one who gets emotionally impacted by books that way? Like it gets my heart rate going and I can’t sleep if I read too much. I also didn’t find the humor really funny, compared to other books I have enjoyed.
Leeli, the little (5 year old) girl who is crippled, easily knocks them unconscious by herself and makes her escape.
Ok, I see how you could get that impression. It was kind of a confusing scene. She kicked a fang in the shin, they got mad, so on and so forth. I believe it says two stones came flying out of no-where knocking the fangs out. You are supposed to wonder who threw the stones. I will say n0 more 🤐 unless of course you ask me for a spoiler. Book one should have had enough info to figure it out.
You mention a lot of fangs not being scary. If you want a darker better written scene of fangs being scary, read the book “wing-feather tales” I believe it is meant to be read after the four books (has some spoilers, nothing too series changing though.), but I read it in between books 1 and 2. The tales are written by many different authors, but I think It is considered a part of the series (I almost want to call it canon, but I’m not certain) Some of the stories are dull. But there’s a real gem in there. One of the stories is about a man who’s child is taken by fangs, and oh my goodness I could never have described heart-ache and physical pain better in my life. It was so gripping to read. (I found it kinda disturbing, most people could handle it fine though.) The tales are all written by different authors but stick to the lore of the wing feather series.
And the rest of the story is just a cycle of the characters running into fangs, and then their ex pirate grandpa swooping in to save them. And that is the story in its entirety.
All I can say is I really get where you are coming from, but keep reading. It’s hard to explain the break the other books make from the tone of the first without giving you spoilers. Both book one and two take awhile to get to the action. Even book two was pretty slow. Theirs very few important details in the beginning of book two, but the last third of the book…. so good.
Basically, the mom, the ex pirate grandpa, some sock dude, and other characters are constantly coming in at a very convenient moment to save them.
All I can say without spoiling something is keep reading. Yes that is a part of the series, and I wish it happened less frequently. You might feel a little different about it if you get some much needed background in book two. I say “Might” because although it makes things better for the series, I won’t deny sometimes it’s just too convenient.
There is no tension.
I really get where you are coming from 🤣
… but consider I cannot finish book three because the tension is so high. 😂 (I’ll probably read it later. I needed a break lol)
And what do they do? They just chill out in prison until their mom comes and bribes the fangs.
I agree with you. Lol no kid would react like that. 😂
Leeli basically just exists to get captured by fangs over and over again.
Or does she? You might have missed some important foreshadowing of her role in book one 😉
Janner is one of the most immature, and unrealistically written 12-year-old’s I’ve seen in a while.
I’d agree. But I’ve seen enough in 2 books to believe it improves.
Couldn’t they have made him cool? Mysterious? Have some dark, shady past for the kids to uncover? But instead of giving him that cool, mysterious tone, they just turned him into something for the lols.
You’re nearly foreshadowing at this point. There’s much more to Podo. It’s hinted on that there is more in book one. It’s extremely subtle and the reader thinks, “He’s such a downer” but it’s not that. Again, wing-feather tales. One of the stories shows who Podo really once was. But I’m sure you will find out in the other books even if you don’t read wing-feather tales.
This book tried so hard to have interesting worldbuilding. But the whole world was just a basic cookie-cutter fantasy world.
Ok, I get that. When I here other fans like, “Look it’s a toothy cow!” I honestly couldn’t care less. The monsters of the series do little to intrigue me, however being the super sensitive person I am, I’m glad they aren’t scary.
This was just a series of predictable twists. One after the other. But then the whole the author just had to pull the “kids who thought they were normal but are actually lost heirs to a kingdom and now everyone wants to kill them” cliché. And that was the nail in the coffin for me.
Yeah ok, that was EXTREMELY predictable. I agree. Again, all I can say is keep reading. Book two (later third) was very different from anything I ever could have read or guessed. We still have some sense of convenient rescue, but it becomes unique in my opinion. I’ve never read anything quite like it. (ok I haven’t read any fantasy in my life other than this. Take my opinion with a grain of salt.)
WARNING THIS IS A LITTLE SPIOLERY BELOW
Also, you didn’t mention the dragons. I know there wasn’t much of them in book one. I’ll just say, they come up again and tie into one of your complaints.
Thanks for being so extensive with your criticism, I really agree with your points, however upon further reading of the series, I changed my mind on some of them.
What do I like about the series:
read at your own risk, I won’t mention specific characters though.
1. Family is very important, and everyone has a important role. Nobody is left out of having an important role.
2. The theme of healing. I can’t say much about this. There are some broken people in this series who need to heal. Past (and how it affects us) is a really big part of the series imo.
3. Having a role model is a part of the series. I can’t say much with you having not read book 2 yet.
4. The rush of excitement and fear. I’m not talking about book 1 🤣. You know when your so scared for a character and your mind is like in the book? And you start feeling physically effected?
Almost all of these things I’m talking about I experienced with book two. I did get the impression you may have missed some fore-shadowing bits in book 1 that make you wonder about the past, but I get it if you noticed them and they just didn’t intrigue you.
Ok, ramble over. I understand where you are coming from completely. Book one was dull. Book 2 is better.
If you have any questions, I’d be happy to discuss! I love giving spoilers if you want a few!
Ok, I’m actually done now 🤣
"And so I left this world just as I had entered it. Confused."
Kinda late here, but when I first read the books, I pictured the Ninjago snake heads too XD Looks like I had company.
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