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Ummm I dunno what’s going on here because I can’t see the forum pages, just the reply box thing
"Courage, dear heart." -Aslan
That’s what happens when a page is full. It pushes you to the next page, but the next page doesn’t exist yet. It’s a bug that should be brought up to Kathleen.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
Anyone want to discuss the idea of infallibility? I’d like to challenge the notion as a whole.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
I’m not sure I really have a solid opinion on this, but it’s something I’ve been thinking about the past couple days, so I’d be interested in hearing your opinion.
"Real love is for your good, not for your comfort." -Justin Whitmel Earley
I personally don’t think there’s much to argue over it.
If you believe it, you believe in a so far consistent, well-logicked (lol, is that a word?) philosophy.
If you don’t believe in infallibility, then you’re taking what pieces you want as truth, and essentially creating your own philosophy. After all, there’s no reason to trust the God of the Bible in the first place if you can’t fully determine what in it is true and not true. If one verse of the Bible wasn’t Spirit-breathed, I might as well stop being a Christian.
That is the only opinion I have on the subject and you can believe what you want *shrugs*
“Everything is a mountain”
No worries! I’m glad you here though!
I think this is what most would say yeah.
So here’s my question though, how do you know that scripture is infallible?
For me, I’m not taking the parts I like the best, I think that we need to consider all scriptures as the word of God, but I simply don’t think we can say that scripture is perfect because man isn’t perfect, and scripture whether you believe is God breathed or not, was written by imperfect hands.
The notion that there’s no reason to trust God if the Bible isn’t perfect I find silly. Just because my mother isn’t perfect doesn’t mean that she isn’t full of wisdom, and I should trust all that she says when in my youth, even if I recognize that she may not always be right.
You’re free to believe in infallibility, but I want to show that a belief in something other than that can still make sense, if not more.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
I think I agree more with Whaley- I’m not questioning that what is in the Bible isn’t true or wasn’t inspired by God. Where I’ve been pondering things recently has less to do with the validity of the Scriptures themselves and more with the translation and the selection of the Scriptures. I’m just curious what caused the people cannonizing the Bible to choose certain epistles and scrolls and not others. A few Bibles still include the Apocrypha; most do not. And then there’s also the debate over which translation is the most accurate- I’ve recently heard about how King James put his name in the Bible by naming the book of James when the guy who actually wrote it was named Jacob, among other alterations. I’m not ready to say that I believe the Bible is not infallible, but these are just a few examples of things I’ve been learning recently that have sparked my curiosity and made me wonder how much has been missed in translation.
"Real love is for your good, not for your comfort." -Justin Whitmel Earley
@trailblazer @thearcaneaxiom @whalekeeper
I definitely agree with Whaley on this one. If you believe scripture is God breathed…if you believe that God is truth, then you either believe that it is ALL truth and not just the parts you want to believe or you deny it entirely.
We can’t just say that the Bible is full of flaws and yet still believe it to be complete truth.
If the Bible isn’t so perfect that it is entirely true, then there is no reason to believe any of it.
If one thing could be a mistake, then all of it could be a mistake.
If one thing is wrong, then all of it could be wrong.
I’m curious, Arcane…what makes you think that the Bible isn’t infallible? Is there any specific part of the Bible that makes you think it’s not infallible?
✨ who the Son sets free is free indeed ✨
I’ve recently heard about how King James put his name in the Bible by naming the book of James when the guy who actually wrote it was named Jacob, among other alterations.
Something like that can also be lost in translation.
There is not an English equivalent to every Greek or Hebrew word, and I think we don’t really try to think about that.
also, where did you hear that? I would be curious to hear about that. Was it from one source or more than one source?
(just curious ❤️)
✨ who the Son sets free is free indeed ✨
So here’s my question though, how do you know that scripture is infallible?
We can’t know if it is or not, besides through the faith of the Spirit. But what is the most logical option?
If you take Biblical philosophy and try to find a verse that directly contradicts it, you aren’t going to find anything more than vaguer verses that have open-ended statements, or use a less conventional way of explaining something. Conversely, if you remove deny the meaning of a given passage, doing so will automatically deny so much more. It’s like takin away a premise of a logical argument.
For me, I’m not taking the parts I like the best, I think that we need to consider all scriptures as the word of God, but I simply don’t think we can say that scripture is perfect because man isn’t perfect, and scripture whether you believe is God breathed or not, was written by imperfect hands
First of all, if Scripture is the word of God, it is necessarily perfect. Second, there’s no reason not to believe God can directly communicate his words through the hands of man without mistakes. For example, Moses wrote the ten commandments on two tablets, to bring to Israel. I don’t think the commandments somehow changed as Moses wrote them down – he was just God’s tool of communication.
Some may say the Bible is more complicated than the ten commandments, but I can’t see why God couldn’t use other writers similarly.
The notion that there’s no reason to trust God if the Bible isn’t perfect I find silly. Just because my mother isn’t perfect doesn’t mean that she isn’t full of wisdom, and I should trust all that she says when in my youth, even if I recognize that she may not always be right
I don’t find it silly, because my mother isn’t my key to salvation. To trust my mother has more benefit than harm, because she is only one earthly source of wisdom and any problems may be sanded down if I use other sources.
Salvation is more than life and death. If our main source of knowledge about God is fallible, how can we know he is infallible? At best, we don’t know. Meanwhile, if the Bible is infallible, God is necessarily infallible.
You’re free to believe in infallibility, but I want to show that a belief in something other than that can still make sense, if not more.
I agree that the fallibility idea can make sense. I just don’t think it is the most consistent or hopeful thing to believe.
I also hope I don’t sound too pushy or offensive 😅 This is just what I have found to be best – not just because I was raised this way, but because I genuinely don’t want to believe something so founded in being unfounded.
“Everything is a mountain”
I also think we should be very careful to not put God in a box. He knows way more than we do…he can do so much more than we can ever do. We may be created in his image, but we are NOT God.
What seems impossible, silly, or even insane to us could be the exact thing God uses for his own glory.
God doesn’t belong in a box, and we shouldn’t try to put him in one.
✨ who the Son sets free is free indeed ✨
@trailblazer @thearcaneaxiom @whalekeeper @freed_and_redeemed
I had to google a definition of infallible for this, so hopefully I understand what you are talking about. I think that all of the stories and ideas in the Bible are true, but that there is room for error in things like spelling, and errors in translation. For example, Nebuchadnezzar is spelled two different ways in the Old Testament. I think Nebuchadrezzar is the other one, but I’m not certain.
There are two types of people in this world. Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
It was just one source, but I’m going to do some more research to see if there’s validity to it. Johnny Enlow brought it up in the midst of a discussion on the ElijahStreams show. He doesn’t usually just share things like that unless he’s done a good amount of research, but I still want to look into it more myself.
"Real love is for your good, not for your comfort." -Justin Whitmel Earley
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