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yeah, no kidding!! The amount of drafts you go through before a book is perfect!!!
I mean, it grew a lot from the original, and it clearly isn’t finished either.
Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God
Iāve already written the whole book.
Oh cool, this is a plenty-of-work-already-done thing.
why do you ask?
I was asking because I’m not sure what direction the story is taking. What should the reader hope to happen next? Both in Aaron’s arc and in the outward plot? – A sense of where this all leads. Because the orphanage plot was out of left field XD
āEverything is a mountainā
Because the orphanage plot was out of left field XD
Oh, well what did you expect to happen?
Don’t worry. The orphanage plays a key part in all three books.
Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God
Just popping in because I’m bored, lol!
I kinda agree with Whaley. The story just doesn’t seem like it’s going towards a specific goal…like the events seem a bit random and idk how to describe it but it’s like your story’s missing something but it frustrates me because I don’t know what exactly I’m missing, just that something isn’t right.
You might need to try outlining books based on a plot structure…like the Three Act Structure, because it hooks your readers more and you can kind of sense them pushing toward a goal.
Since you’re so good with words, can you translate for me? lol I can never explain myself well enough and it’s frustrating!
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333@savannah_grace2009 @ellette-giselle
I can try XD
I think the focus needs to be waaay deeper. The writing is very much outside the characters’ perspective, and only tells the bare points of the story. So the orphanage endeavor feels random.
To compare it to something, the perspective is like a bird high in the sky. Everything below looks like doll toys or ants. Thus, as we fly, everything feels like it’s happening reeaaally fast.
“So the days and weeks slipped away, and life seemed to go on much a before, except for the very present knowledge that they were prisoner in their own city. Two more months passed, and Aaron, Noah, Darrien and Sabina worked hard, caring for the orphaned children and helping those in need. They now had thirty children in their care, and Aaron could hardly move through the rooms without tripping on them.”
This is a loooot of time that we could spend inside the orphanage, watching the young adults/kids dynamic unfold. I would love to understand why this is such a positive thing. But it is breezed over super quickly. This is two months! And I don’t know what the inside of the orphanage looks like!! Let me in!!! š„ŗ *Knocks furiously*
Zoom in the camera. Describe things. Describe the gap-toothed grin Eric makes whenever someone hugs him. Describe the warmth of their home; what kind of wood the walls are, what the bedrooms look like, and the scratched up table where the adults have to stand, because there isn’t enough room to sit. What does Noah look like? What about Alicia? The other guy? Do they have any mannerisms? When a kid hugs them, what are each of their reactions?
In your mind, explain why each of them do things, and let the reader find the reason themselves… Maybe whenever a kid interacts with Noah, Noah pulls a coin from behind their ear. It’s cute, but even past that, it gives us a wonderful sense when we picture Noah. He is past his gambling days and gives freely. (But don’t tell us! Just let us figure it out!)
Use specific scenes to drive home your main idea – Aaron can’t find work, but God provides. Example: Asher needs a new pair of suspenders or rope, because he’s so thin, his pants are falling off. š Aaron leaves to find work at the docks (if the kingdom has access to the sea). The fishermen don’t need help, but they have a little rope to give him
Let us experience things with the characters.
āEverything is a mountainā
HOW DO YOU DO THAT?!??!?!
Wow it’s like you can read my mind lol!
Anyways….
I totally agree with what Whaley said.
The time jumps just take away so much from the story (even at the beginning where Aaron and Turin were working together) and it makes me lose interest. You do great at describing outside of the characters, but this is why people say we can’t understand your characters…you don’t describe theĀ insideĀ of them. We never get to hear their thoughts, and so it’s like we’re just watching random strangers living random people’s lives. I think this is what Whaley meant when you guys were talking about how Turin died (whaley, correct me if I’m wrong). It’s hard to care about the characters when you don’t know their thoughts and get that connection we crave as readers, so when someone dies it just feels numb and you get frustrated cuz you’d like to care but you can’t.
WHALEY HELP ME DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE WHATSOEVER? ugh this sucks lol
Lukas&Livia
#Lalbert
Sef&Chase
#HOTTOLINE
LEFSE FOREVER!!!!!! <333
@savannah_grace2009 @whalekeeperSomeone is having a hard time staying off until Christmas. lolololololol š
You might need to try outlining books based on a plot structureā¦like the Three Act Structure, because it hooks your readers more and you can kind of sense them pushing toward a goal.
Hmmm, well, I have to disagree. I will NEVER start a book without a specific goal in mind. I had the end before I had the beginning. There is a certain amount of graphing that I do before every story, and you can be sure that all things will tie into the end of this book, or the plot of the next. I most certainly did outline my book. I’m sorry if you can’t see a goal here. However, this is not an adventure story. Those books always have a much clearer end goal because the ending achievement is the whole point for you and the characters. This however is Aaron’s life story. This is about Aaron and the things that happen to him. Not about an event that Aaron does things in. Does that make sense? Don’t worry, I’ve studied writing techniques for over 8 years. This story was thoroughly planned out with a good sheet of bullet points, several graphs, etc. It’s just a different kind of story. (btw, there are 7 main plot structures with several sub-branches, so not every story uses the same one.)
However, if the problem is what whaley said then that’s a whole different thing altogether!
So you guys just want more time in those two months? arrrrgh. I feel like I am spending WAY to much time there instead of pushing toward action!
If you two REALLY think so…… I just don’t know. If I do that will I lose my guy and impatient readers? Do people, (besides you two) really want to hear about all that? I mean, it’s all there in my head, but I’ve been told to keep things a little simpler and leave some of the things in my head.
(If i do it I might steal the coin thing, cause that’s actually super cute.)
No, there are no docks. This is all inland. Only the Empire, Otogira, Donchanas, and Articara have sea borders. (The other three countries won’t play into this book at all, and are only minorly important.)
Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God
I will NEVER start a book without a specific goal in mind. I had the end before I had the beginning. There is a certain amount of graphing that I do before every story, and you can be sure that all things will tie into the end of this book, or the plot of the next. I most certainly did outline my book. Iām sorry if you canāt see a goal here.
Is there a goal fulfilled within this first book? I’ve read and watched many series of media, and the ones that make the best impression have an end goal for the entire seriesĀ andĀ goals for each book/episode.
However, this is not an adventure story. Those books always have a much clearer end goal because the ending achievement is the whole point for you and the characters. This however is Aaronās life story. This is about Aaron and the things that happen to him. Not about an event that Aaron does things in. Does that make sense?
The story should still have an aim for the reader to look forward to. If you have studied story structure that deeply, you should remember a goal – or the fulfillment of something which isn’t done yet – should be at least inwardly important, but works even better with outward stakes. It is meant to be a representation of the character’s growth.
I’m not sure what Aaron should want, nor what the story is driving towards.
Donāt worry, Iāve studied writing techniques for over 8 years. This story was thoroughly planned out with a good sheet of bullet points, several graphs, etc. Itās just a different kind of story. (btw, there are 7 main plot structures with several sub-branches, so not every story uses the same one.)
Yeah, there are many structures, but most serve similar purposes. You can outline How To Train Your DragonĀ with at least Three-Act, Four-Act, and Hero’s Journey, and while there are differences, all three fit it.
Are you okay with sharing your basic outline? Like in a few sentences?
So you guys just want more time in those two months? arrrrgh. I feel like I am spending WAY to much time there instead of pushing toward action!
If you two REALLY think soā¦ā¦ I just donāt know. If I do that will I lose my guy and impatient readers? Do people, (besides you two) really want to hear about all that?
Tbh I think you’re spending very little time in any given area. Give yourself time to breathe, Ellette.
Would LotR be worth it if Tolkien never spent time in the Shire?
(If i do it I might steal the coin thing, cause thatās actually super cute.)
Be my guest š
No, there are no docks.
Okay, good to know.
āEverything is a mountainā
Y’all, I feel mean critiquing š š I should post a short story so you two (Ellette, Sara) can rip me to shreds.
I’m completely serious. I just need to think of a good short story prompt. *Searches online*
āEverything is a mountainā
Is there a goal fulfilled within this first book? Iāve read and watched many series of media, and the ones that make the best impression have an end goal for the entire seriesĀ andĀ goals for each book/episode.
Yes, of course there is. I wouldn’t write a book without an end goal.
If you have studied story structure that deeply, you should remember a goal ā or the fulfillment of something which isnāt done yet ā should be at least inwardly important, but works even better with outward stakes. It is meant to be a representation of the characterās growth.
Of course!! I just meant it’s not a treasure being looked for, a mystery to be solved, etc. It’s a different sort of goal.
Yeah, there are many structures, but most serve similar purposes.
truuuue, but again some wouldn’t work with HTTYD, just as some wouldn’t work for LTBL
nor what the story is driving towards.
Well I feel like I lost the driving flow with all these detors we keep making in exploring the characters more. I mean, if I dive off into more depth in the orphanage then that will slow down the current of where this story is going.
Are you okay with sharing your basic outline? Like in a few sentences?
I would rather not, because that’s not what I’m really trying to do with this one. I’m not changing the foundation or structure of this book. I’m kinda gonna die on that hill.
Have you ever read missionary biography? That is the story-structure I’m working with. Something closer to that. I think if you have read/or try reading, some of those, you will find that they are quite similar to the style of LTBL. This is going to have less of a fiction structure.
Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God
I think itās a good idea if I step away from critiquing LTBL. We probably donāt have the same preferences in writing, and I wonāt be able to help you if Iām not on the same plane of thought š Good luck with this draft!
āEverything is a mountainā
Oh please forgive me if it’s anything unkind that I said! If it truly is just a preference in writing then that’s okay. I just hope I didn’t offend you!
Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God
Ā Donāt you find it a little funny that Aaron is the one to bring the kids back after being the strongest opposer of the idea?
There is an irony in that, which was why I thought the chapter was good. I read the last section you posted as well.
āFinnick is fifteen. In a few years he could find a place of his own,ā offered Sabina. āAlda and Edith are both of marrying age. Iāve noticed Arlys keeps glancing at Edith on the Sabbath.ā
āWhat does that have to do with anything?ā laughed Darrien.
Just so you know, guys aren’t completely oblivious to this sort of thing. I was able to pick up what was going on form Sabina’s first comment.
I think what @whalekeeper and @savannah_grace2009 are saying about the pacing is right. Give us a couple of scenes involving the kids in the orphanage. The George Muller Biographies I have read (even the short ones), do give several specific examples of God providing for the orphanage. Giving us a feel of what life is like in the orphanage will also help us to feel like we are part of it.
I’m not as sure what to say with the story structure. You know from my earlier comment, when I asked if the climax was coming soon, that I was expecting a similar story structure to what Whaley and Sara are expecting. (I mentioned The Heroes Journey then). When I sit down to read something like The Flames of Hope Trilogy, I expect it to be written like most fictitious books, following one of the usual structures.
Ellette, you say you have a main goal in the end. Is your story working towards that? Have you been giving us hints as to what that could be? Some missionary biographies have hints in here as well. George Muller’s story starts out with him being a thief, and his journey is one from stealing to generosity. John Newton was a troublesome boy who avoided work and blasphemed God. His story is about his struggle against God before finally accepting him then how his life transformed after that. Charles Spurgeon was a young Christian who everyone doubted, but eventually became a great preacher. I find each of these people’s stories is the most interesting when caught up in the main struggle that dominates their lives. I lost interest in reading Spurgeon’s story after he was established as a preacher near the beginning of the biography. When I sat down to read John Newton’s story (it was in the same series), I was expecting it to be boring again, but was soon fascinated by his struggle against God, turning each page, wondering if that was when he would finally give in. When he did become a Christian, the contrast between his former life and his fight against his sins from the past kept me going.
What is Aaron’s story about? What is his main struggle? Is it his lack of trust in God? He seems to be overcoming that now. Maybe you don’t use a three-story act, but is there something in Aaron’s life that everything revolves around? Can you hint at that journey through your book? If we see a bunch of little struggles that don’t seem connected, it starts to feel like a bunch of separate stories and when one of these resolves, we think we are close to the end, and then discover that there is more to come. Tease us with the main goal so we keep on turning the page, excited to get to this climax.
This is kind of on topic, but out of curiosity, but Ellette, Sara, and Whaley, are you more of a Discovery writer or an Outliner. Most author are not strictly one or the other. I think I am somewhere in the middle, but I think I lean towards discovery writing. For my current project, I did know the beginning and end of it, then kind of discovered the middle as well as some side plots/character arcs as I was writing. One of these I did remove from my first draft, since it did not add much to the story. I’m guessing, from what she has said that Ellette is a discovery writer, but what about the rest of you?
Youāre good, itās just preference š
Iām an Outliner as far as what I want the story to look like, the conflict, the rough points, etc. Some stuff comes while writing. So, a confident 7/10ths of an Outliner. XD
āEverything is a mountainā
Book blurbs: tease, donāt summarize with the plot. It should also get the reader really excited and interested, so find a good hook. @linus-smallprint gave some really good advice.
I will not be here to read the new sections until the 23rd since Iām going on a trip, so if you tag me I will likely not respond. The story is good so far though!
"No! Monkeys should have pets, all monkeys should have pets!"
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