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So there was a question in the comments of @Hope’s article ‘Focused Hues’ about whether or not it’s acceptable for a non-villain to practice torture.
Obviously not just because they’re mean and like it, but because they need info and torture is the surest (or the only) way to obtain it.
So what do you think? What does the Bible say about this?
That is a great question, and unfortunately one I haven’t studied. I going to set forth this premise though. What we are looking for is not a lack of any mention against torture, but something that would cause us to accept it in certain situations despite the fact that treating people that way in general is wrong.
And by the way, you should probably make your thread topic title less broad. Something like, “Good guys and torture” would have worked better. But it turned out well, since your title gave me an idea for a new thread that is probably going to be a heap of fun.
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Great, you started a thread. I was going to do that later if no one else had. 🙂
This is a question I’ve thought about on and off. Under normal circumstances, of course, torture would be something I’d only have bad guys use. By this I mean physical torture. If the situation were serious enough, I’d have no problem letting good characters use some sort of fear or mental type of ‘persuasion’ to get information. The question with physical torture I suppose, is how far (if any) should it go. I mean, I think most if not all people would be against hurting a child, but if there was a man who knew serious information they might try to force him to tell…
Also related to this question is ‘if some physical torture would be acceptable, then would it also be acceptable to hurt a friend or something of the man with information to get him to talk’. The problem with all of this is that once you permit one thing, the logical progression continues and there’s no set line to stop at.
INTJ - Inhumane. No-feelings. Terrible. Judgment and doom on everyone.
Good point, the distinction between mental manipulation and torture.
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Yes, good points, Hope.
I’ve got absolutely no problem with good guys using mental manipulation. It’s torture I’m not sure about.I’m going to suggest a tentative thought. You can still have a non-villain employ torture without promoting it. Just because it’s not the villain torturing someone doesn’t mean it’s right to do it.
If it’s essential to have a non-villain torture someone, you can, just show that maybe there were better ways to do this.
Assuming of course that torture is strictly a bad thing to engage in, which is what we’re trying to determine.First, let me ask a few questions just to get the feel for this thing.
What is torture?
Well, the infliction of physical (let’s stick to physical for now) pain in order to obtain necessary information, usually in a war.What are all the potential problems with this concept? Where does this go against Biblical principle, if at all?
Is it because torture is cruel and cruelty is forbidden? Hm… somehow I don’t think so. As usual, I have forgotten the reference, but remember the time in the Old Testament (Judges, maybe?) when the elders of a city disobeyed the command of one of God’s generals (it may have been Gideon)? That general had them scourged with thorns. That’s pretty cruel if you ask me.
Also we have the punishments in Mosiac law— stoning, for one. Again, that’s cruel.Now neither of those are instances of torture. They are punishment. But I think we can discount the argument that torture may be wrong because it is cruel.
What do you think?
According to the dictionary, torture is, “The act or practice of inflicting severe pain on someone to force them to do or say something.”
I think the issue would be that it is undeserved. I see no sin in holding a secret.
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Yes, that makes sense.
Here’s the question then. This person that you’re torturing, supposedly at least, has been engaged in a war against you. He has been killing your soldiers, and would kill you if he got the chance. Does that justify it? Especially when you consider that the information he has could likely save thousands of lives?
The only definitive statement I’m prepared to make on this issue right now is this— it is undoubtedly wrong to torture a noncombatant. By noncombatant I mean your innocent bystander who may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, and gotten wind of the wrong information.
Alright, here’s a little story (which is sometimes true). A terrorist who knows where the next attack is going to be, is held under your control. Wouldn’t you want to know that information, so you could save hundreds of lives? I do agree with the above comment that once you say that torture is okay, it can lead to some pretty bad things.
Torture is not a good thing, just like war, but it may be a necessary evil in order to stop the bad guys from doing even worse things.
Howdy, Little Brown Dog here.
I’m finding all these responses very helpful:)
I’m have trouble with a unruly character, he’s a former government solider, became a rebel, but he is a sociopath with strong psychopathic tendencies. in the storyline, One of the rebel leaders allows (not necessarily give an order, but kinda knows about it.) this character to give electric shocks to another character, who at that time was an enemy solider, as a way of gaining information. Problem was, this enemy is a /child/ solider. She has very important information, attempted to stab a rebel and was caught spying on the rebs.
options on this?????Is this character going to be good later on? Would he torture a child? Are the rebels the good guys or the bad?
Hm… the problem with that though, David, is that the Bible condones war as a necessary evil, but says nothing about torture.
This is what we logic fanatics call a slippery slope. If you go so far, you’re going to have to go all the way to the end.
If you took that same argument— that torture is bad, but it’s better than letting thousands of people die— to war, you could justify murdering children and babies because eventually they’re going to grow up to be soldiers and fight against you.
So is there some middle ground somewhere?
@littlebrowndog— I’ll be thinking about that, but now I’ve gotta run. My laptop’s running out of juice. Get back to you later, ‘K?
He’s a “good” guy and he does end up apologizing for it much later. The rebels are the good guys. The person she tried to stab was one of his friends and she did end up injuring him.
Torture may be a justifiable misfortune (though I’m leaning against this), but necessary evil is an oxymoron.
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@Katie Good point. You’re right, it’s definitely a slippery slope.
@Little Brown Dog Is there any way your hero can get the information without torture? Maybe befriend her, instead, and show forgiveness?
@howlingwolf Welcome to the forum. Why don’t you introduce yourself in the “Start Here” section.
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