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@r-m-archer Ahh, I understand–’tis a struggle to strike the balance the story needs. I also get the multiple-POVs-in-which-some-are-easier-to-write-than-others struggle–my WIP has three narrators, and I’mĀ just now starting to understand my girl MC’s voice. (I put “just now” in italics because I created this poor woman in 2013, so you’d think I’d know her a little better. Alas. :P) Also, 3rd person limited! A lovely POV if I do say so myself, even though I’m slightly terrified to try my hand at it. š How many POVs do you have in this particular work? And, if you’d like to go into more detail (I understand if not), what makes the two POVs you mentioned the easiest to write in?
āSeven seconds till the end. Time enough for you. Perhaps. But what will you do with it?ā
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@lewilliams I think my own perfectionism is getting better, now that I, uh, well, it’s a little to late to “take back” some of my worst stuff…š
*tips hat* Glad I could be of service t’ ye, miss. Technically, I’ve been “fiddling” with BAD for about a year, since I finished the book before about this time (celebrating a one-year release anniversary a week from tomorrow!). But my actualĀ working on it didn’t really start until about March, so roughly seven-to-nine months, I guess. I’m only at 86,000 words, which wasĀ supposed to be at least 3/4 of the way through, but that’s looking like a 16,000-word beginning, the 100,000-word middle, and a 44,000-word ending. (That seems much longer written out like that, actually.) I’m hoping to reach the 130,000-word mark by the end of the year. (Keyword:Ā hoping.)
Again, you’re so welcome! I can totally relate to having a hard time pinning down the plot, which is why (since I also hate outlining) I try to get the three main points/events. With BAD and (the book before)Ā Prisoner at Heart, I already had all my characters (or ducks) in a row, since they’d (almost) all been in the first book in the series, and my three points down. So, it’s been much easier than expected to get my big picture and drama figured out. It’s the individual scenes I have a hard time with.
Ah, the best question I’ve heard all month! YES! I have so many characters whoĀ
hate each otherlove to argue. Of course, Rina (main POV character in BAD) butts heads with pretty much everyone, from her husband to her adopted brother to her quartermaster to, my personal favorite, her “ward,” the bratty Scarlette. (I had the most lovely argument between those two a few chapters back…oh, what fun!) Of course, the two soon-to-be-romantically-involved characters have the most wonderful arguments…I’m so close to a very heated one that I can taste it! Most of my stories have at least two argumentative characters, since I (1) love drama and (2) love to argue myself. In BAD, an argument occurs about every other chapter, so I guess I have a LOT of action happening. Now, what aboutĀ you?@lewilliams Oof. I kind of feel like that with the first MC of my other WIP. This is a rewrite of a story I started in… 2009? (Granted, it’s gone through a lot of changes and I maybe haven’t developed the characters quite as well as I should…) But the first MC’s voice is just awful. >.< It’s soooo flat. POVs two and three are fine. But #1… oof. XD
I have four POVs in Calligraphy Guild. There’s the MC (DuyĆŖn), her guildmaster (Zen), the character most impacted by the plot (Sairsha), and another character with a significant arc (Tora).
Sairsha’s POV is probably the easiest because it’s naturally more flowery than the others, so it’s a lot easier to distinguish and I can fill in a lot of description around the dialogue without worrying about if it’s natural for the character.
Tora’s is the second easiest, probably due to her personality. She has a lot of internal monologue, which I can sometimes struggle with, but her personality is such that it moves along and gets stuff done and feels… natural to her character, the way it’s written. She’s very much a “doer,” and even her sitting and thinking reflects that. For some reason that’s just easier for me to portray, even though I myself am not much of a doer, lol.
DuyĆŖn is the absolute hardest, and I think it’s because 1) she’s like me and 2) she’s an enneagram 9. As a 9 myself, I recognize that we have a tendency not to notice what we’re feeling, which makes it hard to get into her head because she doesn’t even know what she’s feeling, so how do I communicate it naturally to the reader? But beyond that, figuring out what she would notice can be tricky because I base a decent amount of it on me, since I know our thought processes are similar, and I don’t notice… what I notice, lol. So finding the right descriptions and the right balance of description can be tricky.
Zen falls somewhere in the middle. He’s not… terrible? But he was supposed to have a more loose and upbeat voice than I’ve ended up writing for him, and now in edits I’m struggling to regain the correct tone. I’m struggling, I think, to reconcile his tone with the events of the book and what they mean for him and to figure out how the two would integrate with each other. š
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
Hating my writing used to be a big obstacle for me as well. So big in fact I wrote an entire article on KP about it.XD
It’s so hard to see the amazing story in your head look so badly when it’s on the page. Then all the work and time you put into your story feels futile.
But as you said, once you get over the crippling perfectionism, writing is so much easier and more enjoyable.
@gracie-j
Happy early anniversary to BAD! And congrats on making it to the 86,000-word mark! So many poor novels get scrapped before they ever get near that mark.XD
Yeah, motivation comes and goes so frequently especially when school and life take over. Sometimes it can feel like writing isn’t important so it gets pushed to the wayside.
But as you mentioned, having a friend you can bounce story ideas off with it SO helpful. Whenever I talk to my siblings about writing and stories I’m so much more inspired to write. Also, I found that it’s much easier to have motivation when I only write about things I deeply love, care about, or interested in. Then it feels like there’s is something inside of me that is compelling me to write as if I need to tell the story to survive.
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@kathleenramm Thanks! I know–I can’t tell you how many stories I’ve given up on at anywhere between 0 to 50,000 words… Rest in peace, my children. (All right, yeah, dat’s weird.)
Girl, I cannot imagine how awesome it must be to have siblings who write with you! (Tell me there’s at leastĀ one con, and maybe I won’t feel so bad…)
@gracie-j
Being able to write with my siblings is one of the best gifts that God has given me. There’s rarely a day that goes by without me thanking God for it in my prayers. XD
But that being said, there are a couple of cons… the first that comes to my head is when there’s a disagreement. When you write on your own, you get the final say in everything. When you write with multiple people that’s not the case. You might have an idea that you think is awesome, but everyone else likes their idea better. You can also disagree on what project to work on. One person may want to work on a certain project, but the other person wants to work on something else that you personally don’t feel like writing. Then there’s the whole issue with everyone having their own busy schedules, and making time to write where everyone is available is tough.
I’m not sure if that made you feel better but, well, that’s the couple cons to writing with siblings. XD Other than that it’s pretty great.
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@kathleenramm I bet it is wonderful! You truly are blessed!
(And I think I may feel a little bit better…)
Who knows? Maybe I’ll marry a writer and have eight kids who all write and we’ll just be one big write-y family! (Yeah…that might be pushing my luck there. š)
How did y’all all get into writing? I mean, I know it’s a whole family thing, but just because both my parents played multiple sports in school doesn’t mean all of their seven kids are just as athletic, y’know?
Hate to dig up the hatchet, so to speak, but what’s the worst disagreement you guys have had while writing? Oh, and how’s the superhero novel going?
Can I just say that I absolutely love the name Tora! It’s actually my dog’s name and I think it’s so cool. Sorry, just had to get that in there š š š
I honestly think my biggest struggle with writing is balancing it with the rest of my life. I have a very all-or-nothing personality and I can go for months without writing, and then I’ll start a novel and I’ll become obsessed with it and neglect the other things that need to be attended to in life. I’ve really struggled with this most of my life and I think I’ve sort of got it balanced now, but only because of an intense amount of self-control. :I
INFP Queen of the Kingdom commander of an army of origami cranes and a sabre from Babylon.
@seekjustice Thank you! ^-^
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Singer. Worldbuilding enthusiast.
@gracie-j Ā Eyy, happy early bookiversary! (I continue to insist that ābookiversaryā is a word, even though both Microsoft Word and Google Docs vehemently disagree with me.)
First off, tell me more about Scarlette! (Is…is that a reference to Gone With the Wind I sense? :P) How did she become to be Rinaās āwardā? Or shall I just have to read the book to find outā¦? š Iām just very intrigued, you see.
YES, someone who understands! Goodness, I feel like most of The Drakesbanes is just mini-arguments propelling the plot forwards. Horace and his servant Arvi most particularly seem to not be able to exist on the same page without battling it out–verbally, I mean. Though I do have a scene wherein Arvi yeets Horace into a riverā¦ *sigh* Drama is so fun, isnāt it? And ehehe, sounds like weāre both about to write very similar scenes–my poor MC Tin is about to meet her future husband in the next chapter, and Iām very excited at the prospect. *rubs hands together gleefully* I feel like I like Rina more the more I hear of her. Do you have particular favorite argumentative duo?
(Also, not to spy on your most recent post in this topic, but I did marry a writer (mainly a filmmaker, but hey) with whom I do Creative Thingsā¢, so your dream is definitely within the realm of possibility. XD)
Also, @kathleenramm, not to spy on your post either, but Iām so intrigued by the fact that you write novels with your siblings. How does that go–like, does one person write one particular section/chapter/POV, or do you all collaborate on the whole thing, orā¦? Forgive me if Iāve asked you before, but Iām just very curious about the process of it all. It sounds so neat!
āSeven seconds till the end. Time enough for you. Perhaps. But what will you do with it?ā
@gracie-j
Well, it all began in 2013. During a vacation, my older sister (who was the most into writing back then) suggested that we all write a story together. The name? Fighting Toucan Island. Though, it was about as cliche a story you can get. I was only nine, my older sister was twelve, my younger brothers were seven and five. Honestly, I can’t believe it’s been 7 years! Somehow, we’ve continued writing since then.
How did you start writing?
The biggest disagreement was probably when we were writing a chase scene, and there was much confusion and heated discussion over the layout of the town where said chase scene was taking place. Then my younger brother tossed in a mule stampede when he was writing (let me repeat, a mule stampede), so that just made everything even more complicated and…. oh boy.
Our writing process has changed quite a bit over the years. We started off writing scenes together, and while that was fun, we got distracted a lot and would start talking about different things completely unrelated to the story. For another novel, we decided to write scenes separately, but that was a near disaster, because we just so happened to be pantsing that story, and all our different visions and imaginations resulted in disagreements (see my comment to grace-j above). Now, we just outline scenes together, and then delegate the writing to one specific person. This works much, much better.
However, one thing that has always stayed consistent in our writing process over the years, is that we alwaysĀ always brainstorm ideas, create characters, establish the major plot points, and figure out plot problems together.
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@lewilliams Thank you! š (BTW, I’m having a weeklong celebration on my blog, starting yesterday, if anyone wants to join the party…) And, yes, “bookiversary” isĀ definitely a word. I don’t trust Word, Docs, etc., to fully comprehend the vast vocabulary we intellectuals possess.
Yes, itĀ is a reference to GWTW! (Don’t know if you’ve “spied” on my other posts, but it’s become a commonly known fact that I love GWTW…) Scarlette and Scarlett aren’t very much alike on the outside, but their attitudes are exactly the same, and they’re both equally difficult, so… All, er, difficult characters are named Scarlett. It’s a fact.
I would recommend reading the book–ha, ha. It’s complicated, but I’ll try my best to explain the largest variable that resulted in Scarlette becoming Rina’s ward, hopefully without causing confusion with the addition of the several other driving forces. Ahem. Scarlette had three choices for where she could live (she’s sixteen, currently, and it’s 1686, so…): with her bossy (but endearing) older sister and her new husband in England, on her own (which she’d already attempted, to no avail), or with Rina, the family friend who oft wishes that sheĀ wasn’t the family friend. There were selfish reasons that Scarlette chose to stay with Rina (none of which had anything to do with the fact that they liked each other and got along famously–they don’t) but the biggest one was thatĀ I needed her to stay with Rina so that I could complete her arc, which I could not do if she ended up living with her sister.
Long story short, Rina didn’t have much of a say in the end, and Scarlette basically begged to stay with her because she (1) didn’t want to live with her sister and (2) may–or may not, I’ll never tell–have had a “boyfriend” who was part of Rina’s crew.
Make sense?
Ah…drama is the most wonderful thing in the world. Well, I mean, notĀ real life drama. Fictional drama, on the other hand?Ā Heaven.
Thrown into the river? Dang! (Thought here: if only someone could be tossed into the ocean without, you know, possibly drowning or beating eaten by a shark or something, I could totally have a lot of fun arguments going on.) I definitely get the same vibe from BAD–every time I turn around, there’s difficult argument going on about something new each time. That is normal, right? Should there be, like, some happiness and nicety and good stuff like that?
Oh, yes, the first encounter is always so much fun! I had the most delightful one with Rina and her future-at-the-time husband. I have a hard time keeping a straight face every time I think about it. I mean, how often does a girl engage in a swordfight with her future husband, who may have inadvertently insulted her instead of properly introducing himself, the moment they first meet?
Rina has proven to be a very likeable character, although she wasn’t always that way. I feel like you’d really love her.
As for my favorite argumentative duo? Ooh… Girl, that’sĀ tough. Probably Keaton and Daisy–the soon-to-be-romantically-involved characters. Every time they argue…it’s notĀ just anger. I mean, there are all kinds of sparks flyingĀ everywhere! And it’s not like they don’t like each other–they’re just so combustible, you know? Like heat and shale–compatible, but in a dangerous way. That being said, my most favorite argument (so far) is definitely the one between Rina and Scarlette. I mean, Rina has gotten mad before and yelled several times, but she hammers Scarlette so hard that the girl just starts freaking out and everything. (Come to think of it, Scarlette really is a jerk.) Rina really gives that girl what was coming for her. Ah…so good…
Spy all you want. š But, then, it’s not reallyĀ spying when it’s posted on a public forum, right? ‘Cuz, if not, I might be charged with espionage sometime soon… Anyway, I’d like to think it a possibility. I know it’s become a topic inĀ la familia–although usually the discussion is more along the lines of how strange our kids would be if both me and my husband wrote. (Mind if I ask how long y’all’ve been married?)
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@kathleenramm Wow! Now, uh, aĀ mule stampede? Seriously? (This was when your brothers were five and seven, right? Not twelve and fourteen?) Granted, if your town happened to be in Texas or something, it might not be so strange. Do mules actually stampede? Did y’all ever finish the chase scene?
Uh…long story short…I’ve been reading avidly since I was four, and I’ve always loved dreaming up stories–but I hated writing. Anyway, when I was nine/ten-ish, I decided that I wanted to (1) get over my fear of using a pencil and (2) write a mystery story and, later, a series about teenage spies. I fiddled with those ideas until I started reading historical romance when I was about eleven. Then, a fresh wave of inspiration crashed over me and I started writing with the intention of finishing/publishing books. I was taking ballet at the time, and it wasn’t until my local studio closed that I really felt called to write, and about a year after that, I wrote and published my debut novel,Ā Held Captive. Now, I’m two full novels, one novella, and three short stories in with more on the way.
I’ve always wondered how collaboration worked. I’m assuming you’ve been assigned the superhero novel?
@gracie-j
Yes. You heard that right. A mule Stampede. Still to this day, I can’t help but crack up every time I read it. XD
We wrote that novel when my brothers were 10, and 13. So errrr…. yeah. We did finish the chase scene, and we finished the novel, but we never edited it so… the mule stampede still exists hiding somewhere in a google doc.
Is Held CaptiveĀ published? Because if so, I would totally love to read it.
Update on the Superhero novel? Well, um, it’s not a novel anymore. After banging our heads for about the millionth time, something finally clicked and we realized that the story didn’t work as a novel and fits much better as a serial novel. All our struggles now make sense. It was like we were trying to fit a tv series into one film. It just doesn’t work. Too many characters, too many villains, too many ideas, and too big of a world.
But my siblings and I are working on the superhero
novel Āseries,Ā together. We outline and brainstorm ideas together, but delegate certain scenes to a single person to write on their own.- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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@kathleenramm That’s amazing. Simply amazing. š The things the mind contrives…I will never understand it.
Indeed it is!Ā Held Captive is available on AmazonĀ in both Kindle and paperback formats. (And, yes, that’s the sentence I spit out every time some asks. š) Beware–it sounds interesting, but it was written by a twelve/thirteen year old girl who did absolutely no research. It has been edited multiple times, but it will never be perfect. I have plans to rewrite it, in fact, because I’m horrified by the quality of my writing back then. The regular stuff. That being said, the series gets better and itĀ is an interesting story. If you can get past the typos and sentences that make no sense whatsoever.
Anyway, enough of that… A superhero serial novel, you say? Cool! Do y’all have a synopsis available?
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