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I don’t know about you but I find unrealistic scenarios in books (romance books especially) incredibly annoying. Like how every male protagonist seems to smell like wood shavings or pine. That has been so overused it’s cliche now. Or how the main characters are always incredibly beautiful, trim, and have perfect teeth!
I’m sorry, but I’d like to see more books with “real” people in them. There has only ever been one romance book I read where one of the main characters wasn’t physically fit. It was awesome and didn’t detract from the story at all.
What’s some things in books that you find annoying and what would you like to see in their place?HC
I’ve not read a ton of romance novels (none, in fact, unless you count Austen and some of her contemporaries) but I’ve read too many stories to count that have love stories in them. And thus far, I have not encountered the pine needles and cedar shavings thing. Lucky me, right?
Now, I write fantasy, so a lot of my thought process works towards that mindset. Allow me to defend physical fitness in male protagonists. Not that every hero should be a superhero with bulging muscles, or that every heroine should be a paragon of beauty, but there is a practical reason, I believe, that most (fantasy) heroes are physically fit. For one thing, fantasy worlds are not very conducive to laziness in an exercise regimen. Every fantasy hero at one point or another will have to go into battle, and he knows it. And if the only thing standing between you and the guy trying to chop off your head is your own strength, I think most sane people would be afraid to be less than physically fit. Also, we must take into account that little boys growing up in troubled, warlike times will be trained in arms from a very young age, and the exercises they are made to undergo will quickly whittle them down to size if they are fat, or quickly build meat and muscle on their bones if they are stick thin.
And then there is the writing aspect of it. If you see this guy with his stomach hanging over his belt, his round face red from the exertion of moving, his sword trailing on the ground, his shield hanging limp from his pudgy arm, you aren’t automatically going to think “Wow! He’s really the dragonslaying type!” In fact, your reaction would be more likely “What a lazy slob! What’s he doing out here when there are dragons to be slain? Tell him to go spend some time at the YMCA! (or whatever the fantasy equivalent is)”. Even if this guy really is the dragonslaying type inside. Somehow I don’t think he would be, though, because your habits of exercise and hygiene tell a lot about what you are and what you care about inside.
As an interesting side note, have you noticed that male authors tend to write amazingly beautiful women, and female authors tend to write stunningly handsome men? I can only think of a few off the top of my head, but that seems to be more or less the case. Isn’t that interesting?
One of the things I find annoying in books, which sort of ties in with what you were saying, is how all the villains are physically ugly. I mean, sometimes you do it to make a point, and I have done it, and anticipate doing it in the future, because villains can certainly be ugly just like anybody else can, but when every villain is old and wrinkled and hunchbacked and walks with a shuffling stoop, it grates on my nerves. Even when they all have hawklike eyes, hooked noses, and little pointed black mustaches. How evil or good a person is is not determined by their looks. You can make someone look evil even if they are physically very handsome— or beautiful. And vice versa.
By the tag for this post, I thought you were going to mention love at first sight, which is another thing that really annoys me. I don’t know that I’ve ever come into contact with it outside little girl fairytales, but just the thought of it makes me sick. I mean, seriously. Love?> At first sight? Really, people. Butterflies at first sight, maybe, but not love. It’s too ridiculous to even merit discussion. (And this from a person who will discuss practically anything). Good topic.Wow! You certainly have a well rounded argument, Kate. While I have only ever read one book that is probably considered fantasy I can see where you are coming from (especially if the fantasy is also vaguely dystopian). It is necessary then and I think we tend to lable someone like you described as the stereotypical villain, which makes it all the better when the person you least expect ends up being good. Plus, I also think readers are more inclined to like characters that are leaning towards perfect better than those who are not. It goes along with pleasing the imagination and the senses.
Yes, I think that is interesting. Prbably because male authors are trying to describe their ideal woman or one that they think their audience will like and visa-versa. One major part of being a writer.
Villains do tend to be on the ugly side in books but I like it better when they aren’t. I read one novel where the antagonist was trying to romance the female protagonist. I liked hmm better than even the male protagonist! And, yes, love at first sight is totally wrong. It really takes away from what would otherwise be a good book.
Thanks! 😀
HC
Remind me, what’s dystopian again? Is it the genre where the government basically has control of everything? Just curious, and couldn’t remember.
That’s an intriguing point you made about characters being more likeable if they are closer to perfect. I can definitely see where you are coming from, but how far would you carry that? Personally, I don’t think it would be a very good idea to make any characters near perfect, or possessed of only one major fault. Characters are people, after all, and every person, no matter how great or righteous or self-controlled, is going to have an sizable array of minor faults and at least— at least— one major fault. I think what makes a character good in his personality (sorry, most of my characters are men, so I tend to think of characters in general as men) is what he desires to be. If he can see his faults and acknowledge them, and in his heart search earnestly and try to do what was right, I think that would make him a ‘good’ character, even if he has serious faults. Does that make any sense at all?Dystopian is the exact opposite — it describes an imaginary society that is as dehumanizing and as unpleasant as possible. That’s the dictionary definition but I think basically it’s anything that can go wrong does.
I really wouldn’t take a “perfect” character too far because then how is your reader supposed to relate? If your characters become too pretty, too good, too wise etc. then there is no way on earth your readers will be able to relate. I think people like reading about “real” people–people with struggles and problem and faults and hardships like themselves. But not so much so as to bring them crashing back down to the dreary reality of their own lives; books are an escape. The same is true for “perfect” characters. Nobody wants to read about someone that is so perfect that we either will never be able to match up at all or its too good to be true.
Yes, you made perfect sense and I agree. Hardships make books and are ever so fun to write about.:D
HC
Thanks for the quick definition— I think I get it now.
Yes, I agree one hundred percent with what you said about perfect characters.
Books without hardships? *Shudders*. Disgusting. A perfect story where everything is just hunky dory all the time would be worse even than a character that way.
And now we are out of a discussion. Can you think of any other aspects of this to bring out?Nope, I think we’ve pretty much dissected the life out of this one. 😀
Thanks for a great discussion!HC
But the story of the fat guy on the battlefield hasn’t been told yet.
The story of the lass ’round the corner of the inn in the shadow of the castle with the rotting teeth hasn’t been seen.
I tell you what, I’ve seen the handsome knight and beautiful prince kiss enough to where THAT holds no intrinsic value to me. I’d like to see something new.
Exactly, Daniel! The book industry has used those same old boring plotlines until it’s become monotonous. Its time for writers to step out of their literary comfort zone and write something new with purpose and meaning.
Who cares what the character looks like. Probably most of us are concerned with the character of the–well–character and the struggles he/she faces along with how they over come them. Sure, you can use some old plotlines but spice it up a bit!
Good thought!
HC
You’re absolutely right, monotonous is just the word. And now is a great time to think outside the box. Other readers are tired of the same stuff over and over. It just takes a lot to really find a plotline that’s different and still rings true. I hate saying the old “write what you know” thing, but personal experience is a great place to draw from with characters.
So yeah. Different is good. Different brings new things. And new things not only bring new meaning, but are also good for marketing purposes, so that’s a plus. 😛
Thanks!
That whole “write what you know” thing isn’t all the way true though. I mean, how many of us have been in the middle of a gunfight or gone on an adventure all the way around the world in order to save somebody etc. There are some things we just don’t know or haven’t experienced. The trick is taking what you do know (past experiences, hardships, wacky characters we know etc.) and weaving them into our story tapestry. That’s where brain storming comes in lol. 😀
HC
One interesting aspect of romance is the part readers are rarely shown. The ‘after marriage’ aspect. Most stories focus on the engagement, or sometimes go up to the wedding, but not many (that I’ve seen anyway) continue ‘romance’ after marriage, showing what happens then. True, that won’t always fit into stories, but I wouldn’t mind seeing the change of relationship sometimes. 🙂
I rarely read a pure romance book, though some books I read do have romance in them. What I like to see is the courtship process. With the guy getting to know the girl in a realistic setting, and the story focusing on the protection and respect of the man for the girl he loves, and the girl’s respect and encouragement of the man (instead of a whole bunch of dreamy-eye conversations in the moonlight). I loved the romance portrayed in the first two Eyes of E’veria books by Serena Chase.
INTJ - Inhumane. No-feelings. Terrible. Judgment and doom on everyone.
Yes I love books like that! Some romance books (like mail-order bride historical romances) have the characters get married in the beginning and show the growth process afterward. I have to say those are some of my favorites. Plus I have read one or two books where the characters were already married when the story starts and they have to work through different problems together. Those are always fun. But I agree there aren’t many books out there like that, at least in my experience.
Yes I couldn’t agree more. I think romance authors tend to get caught up in “feelings” and “emotions” rather than reality. As Kate was talking about earlier with love at first sight, and then they add in the stomach flutters and tingles and things. I haven’t read or even heard of the books you mentioned unfortunately but some that I really like are the Love Comes Softly series by Jannette Oke. She portrays love as not being a brick wall that hits you and boom you’re in love but rather love is calm and quiet in coming. Its lovely!
Good thoughts!
HC
Oh yes, I couldn’t agree more. Some of the challenges I like in writing my own books are making the love stories (every one of my books is a love story to some extent, though not what you would consider a romance) as fresh and original as possible. My first book (The one that I would still acknowledge to be mine, that is) had a pretty ordinary, cliched love story that to me now seems just ho hum, and I’m definitely going to be working on it, but now I’ve really gotten into breaking the mold on love stories as well as a ton of other stereotypes. One thing I’d like to see more of, and am definitely writing, is what Hannah mentioned— characters married in the beginning, not necessarily loving each other, and getting to know each other afterwards. I want to see the political marriages, the marriages made for convenience, or wealth, or some practical reason that had nothing to do with love, and then I want to see love come after they are already bound to each other.
I’ll tell you what I’d really like to see. You know that cliche where a marriage has been planned from the cradle, and the man ends up breaking away from his awful, cruel parents’ wishes and marrying the girl of his dreams and living happily ever after? Well, I’d like to see the man forced to marry the girl his parents marked out for him, maybe even when he was already ‘in love’ with another girl whom he thought was perfect, and find out after a few months or years of marriage to the girl of his parents’ choice that she really wasn’t such an ogre after all. One example of this kind of love story (though there are differences in the way that it came about) is the love story in Baroness Orczy’s ‘The Scarlet Pimpernel’, if you’ve read it.
I could go on and on and on about this stuff, so don’t let me, but I will add this: Love stories are so much stronger when you carry the story beyond the wedding, and into actual marriage. Because let me tell you right now, no one REPEAT, NO ONE, ever truly ‘lives happily ever after’. It just doesn’t happen. So show me your newly married couple in their first quarrel, and show me how they make up, and how their love is stronger for it. Show me the wife learning to serve her husband in the everyday monotony of real life, and show me the ways she learns to support him, and help him in the small things that make it easier for him to do whatever he does to support her. Show me how much stronger their love can be when it is built on practical, common-sensical (not a word, I know) affection as well as ‘romance’.
Whew! That was long. Anyway. I’m finished with my lecture. I just had to get that off my chest. 😀Goodness, you have some good points, Kate, and you’ve got me thinking. I want to read an arranged marriage from a political stand point now. And that arranged marriage from the cradle. I’ve only read one of those and it was a western so the romance wasn’t a big part. The guy ended up marrying the girl as he had always planned to and the lived happily ever after ya-dee-da-dee-da.
It would be fun to see a story that starts like say a week before their wedding day and ends maybe on their kids first birthday or something. It would be delightful! Think of the conflicts, the squabbles, the making up, the trials they could go through in that amount of time! Just everyday life! I love it, somebody needs to write this……
HC
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