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As for a favorite trope? Well, one is the exact kind you mentioned. Sometimes they add humor when the character is only hiding a tender heart under a shell of bristles, but sometimes when the character is hiding a hurt or sorrow, the story takes on a heart gripping tendency that is just so…. Yeah, that’s a favorite, both ways.
Right? It’s just so good!
I think another is the unexpectedly skilled ones with real inner conflicts that keep them down. Especially if they have weaknesses that turn out to be strengths when used right.
That’s a good one! Not a trope I’ve seen in a lot of books I’ve read, too.
And of course, the sacrificial ones, who even though they struggle with natural selfishness, continually give of themselves till they don’t realize how much they have given.
Goodness, I have an undying love for self-sacrificial characters. Especially the ones that believe they’re unworthy.
One character that bugs me is the fantastically skilled young person who bests all the adults just by being a unique person with no need for mentorship. This kind tends to make the elders look ridiculous, in my opinion, and offers an inaccurate view of responsibility and maturity.
Ack, it’s just so annoying when a character never has to work for what they get. I’d agree with you that that trope presents so many inaccuracies. I’m already annoyed by the fact that elders are often portrayed as either stupid or abusive in YA fiction. And in middle grade too.
What’s one of your character pet peeves?
Hmm, something that really annoys me is when a character gets seriously injured, like, seriously, and then they’re all better and ready to continue exploring in a week or less. Even worse, if a character is seriously injured and somehow wins a duel with superhuman power. In reality, that would NOT happen unless you are ACTUALLY a superhuman. I mean, people are taken down by severe physical infirmities. It comes across as anticlimactic when authors do this, not to mention I’ll probably think of the author as a lazy author, or at least, an author who didn’t do enough research on said injury.
Oh, RoI is my absolute favorite of the Anne series. Personally, I like Rilla better than Anne, and Walter is such a courageous person. He an Una should have gotten married. Una was always my favorite of the manse kids. Poor Una. She deserved better! 😉
It’s my favorite, too! Rilla is way better than Anne, and I definitely agree that Walter was courageous. It was so sad that he thought of himself as a coward.
I will forever be mad that we were deprived of an Una x Walter wedding. Una definitely deserved better!
I can’t really decide on a favorite manse kid. In Rainbow Valley, I probably liked Jerry the best because his sass was to die for. But Carl was also hilarious, and Faith reminds me a lot of myself. Una is so sweet, though.
What did you think of the way L.M. Montgomery seemed bent on shipping the manse kids and Ingleside kids with each other? Personally, I thought it a bit unrealistic that they would all fall in love with each other when they grew up just because they were close friends as kids. I didn’t mind Jem and Faith so much, but Jerry and Nan seemed just… weird. I think Montgomery just wanted to force them all together. Also, if they were all gonna be shipped with each other, why would Rilla and Carl be the only ones who didn’t marry each other? And then who was Shirley gonna marry if all the girls were taken? Idk, but I always thought that was weird. 😂 The only couple I rooted for all the way and felt really belonged with each other was Una and Walter.
Oof, that’s hard. It reminds me of one of the things that disturbs me in the story of Samson. He was given so much potential, yet it was squandered away for too much of his life.
Great defense and explanation! (The admission was under priced 😉 )
Yup! It’s always sad when people don’t take the opportunities to change that are presented to them.
Thanks! *takes a bow* I have at least a million more Les Mis lectures saved up in my brain…
Yes, I would agree with you. God’s name is not a tool to be manipulated by whomever wills. It is interesting then, that the former verse mentions the use of His name. It’s like what one of my favorite authors for theology said: “The Bible is it’s own best commentary”. There seems to be a warning here not to be content at one level of depth but to seek His face. There’s probably a lot more too (and that might not actually connect). The Bible is just so rich!
Good point! I love that quote. It’s so true.
It totally is! That’s why God’s Word is so amazing.
Yay! I’m glad that made sense. I completely agree about the word “Christain”. It is often used too lightly till now when it aught to be the biggest complement, it’s too vague. I hesitated to use it for that reason, but obviously went ahead. 😉
That’s another good thing about allegory! It’s really handy in describing what a true Christian looks like, like C.S. Lewis did with the Pevensie kids in Narnia.
Absolutely. I’m the same way. Lewis’ use of magic was wisely done, and God has used Narnia to bless so many. (Those letters would be, for lack of a better word, awesome.) Magic is not often so used, and even then, it’s not always really a good thing.
Agreed, agreed!
Thank you so much! That’s a huge encouragement, you made me tear up. Honestly, I’ve been considering giving up on this series.
No, don’t give up on it! I’ve considered giving up on my Biblical fiction series so many times, but I know I could never do it because I love it so much and am so passionate about it, and besides I feel called to write it. I think it really sounds like God has placed this allegorical story on your heart. Our stories can get really complicated and confusing at times, but writing them is a big project, and there will be ups and downs. It is really hard to actually write out the amazing ideas in our brains, but it’ll be worth it. You should totally keep going on it! And of course, if you ever want to brainstorm or just talk to another writer, you can tag me on KP anytime!
That was the exact passage I was trying to work off of (but forgot the reference, so I definitely needed that.).
No problem!
Because injury is a result of the Rebellion, the King has power to undo it. One option is that the King gives some type of healing water/ointment. Another is that the same power given to them from the King, His Life, blesses the healer’s work.
If I’m picking up correctly on the vibe of your story (or you might have said this already yourself and I’m just super forgetful XD), it sounds like medieval fantasy. So do you have medieval doctors’ practices or, like, apothecary practices? If so, do they use the same methods that real medieval doctors used, like bloodletting and stuff? (Medieval doctors didn’t really know a lot and kind of hurt a bunch of people, as you can imagine!)
Or are the doctors false, and the healers are completely different people who possess the only power effective in helping the sick/injured?
Wisdom. A deeper understanding of the Higher Places, and discernment for that around them. Having a wise person/teacher would definitely be a good idea.
Maybe you could have mentors and mentees (or apprentices), too!
Btw, are there schools in your world, and what kind of schools?
Some will be able to tell from the start of someone/something is from _____. (Discerning of spirits)
Hmm, that’s good! Like they’ll be able to tell whether something is from the King or (insert your allegory’s representation of the devil)?
Concerning the King’s presence: the people never see his face if that much, and only those who seek Him at all. (I think armor?), and my descriptions will include more of what He brings, since we feel Him instead of see Him. I’ll tailor my words accordingly. Does this sound good?
“We feel Him instead of see Him.” That’s really good! I think it would be a good idea to have the King mostly faceless. Sort of like the Emperor-Over-the-Sea in Narnia, who is Aslan’s father and represents God but whom no one has ever seen.
Anyway, that’s a bunch of brainstorming. Anything sound right or otherwise? Suggestions? Thoughts?
You might have mentioned it already (excuse me if I’m ever forgetful XD), but do you have representatives for the entire three-thirds of the Trinity, or just for Jesus? Like, what represents God the Father, and the Holy Spirit?
@joy-caroline
Hi! Sorry it took so long to reply, I was a few sentences from finishing my response yesterday, but my phone died. Vamoose!!! There went the past hours’ work. So, now that I’ve finally gotten back….
[quote quote=108057]That’s a good one! Not a trope I’ve seen in a lot of books I’ve read, too.[/quote]
I think so too. 😉 It’s not used to it’s potential (but the, it’s not cliche either).
[quote quote=108057]Goodness, I have an undying love for self-sacrificial characters. Especially the ones that believe they’re unworthy.[/quote]
Especially then. Oy, a sacrificial character without an internal struggle is only half the satisfaction. If that.
[quote quote=108057]Ack, it’s just so annoying when a character never has to work for what they get. I’d agree with you that that trope presents so many inaccuracies. I’m already annoyed by the fact that elders are often portrayed as either stupid or abusive in YA fiction. And in middle grade too.[/quote]
Yes! It’s discouraging, at the least, and not mildly disturbing.
[quote quote=108057]Hmm, something that really annoys me is when a character gets seriously injured, like, seriously, and then they’re all better and ready to continue exploring in a week or less. Even worse, if a character is seriously injured and somehow wins a duel with superhuman power. In reality, that would NOT happen unless you are ACTUALLY a superhuman. I mean, people are taken down by severe physical infirmities. It comes across as anticlimactic when authors do this, not to mention I’ll probably think of the author as a lazy author, or at least, an author who didn’t do enough research on said injury.[/quote]
Oh, yes! XD There flees our protagonist, who dispute the fact that he is nearly blinded by the pain of his broken leg, is leaping up the side of the mountain, half carrying his horse. Oh, and the enemy is shooting at him the whole way.
Because, of course, it would be impossible if he had to completely carry his horse. XD
Men of Iron by Howard Pyle does uncommonly well on this point. Myles spends months recovering from a serious wound and from the fever naturally occurring from the medieval medical practices of the time. During the battle that he got hurt in, you can see where adrenaline is pushing him on, but it’s all in the realms of common sense. I don’t know if you’ve read it, but it’s a good book (for more reasons than those mentioned heretofore 😉 ).
[quote quote=108057]It’s my favorite, too! Rilla is way better than Anne, and I definitely agree that Walter was courageous. It was so sad that he thought of himself as a coward. I will forever be mad that we were deprived of an Una x Walter wedding. Una definitely deserved better![/quote]
Poor Walter. And Una. It would be fun to rewrite it (just for the satisfaction of having given them a chance). I mean, I get why his death is one of the things that makes the book so good, but still, it couldn’t hurt. 😉
[quote quote=108057]What did you think of the way L.M. Montgomery seemed bent on shipping the manse kids and Ingleside kids with each other? Personally, I thought it a bit unrealistic that they would all fall in love with each other when they grew up just because they were close friends as kids. I didn’t mind Jem and Faith so much, but Jerry and Nan seemed just… weird. I think Montgomery just wanted to force them all together. Also, if they were all gonna be shipped with each other, why would Rilla and Carl be the only ones who didn’t marry each other? And then who was Shirley gonna marry if all the girls were taken? Idk, but I always thought that was weird. 😂 The only couple I rooted for all the way and felt really belonged with each other was Una and Walter.[/quote]
Hmm, I hadn’t thought about it, but I think I agree with you. It doesn’t quite make sense. Of all the couples, she had to break up the perfect one. We authors are weird. XD
[quote quote=108057]Yup! It’s always sad when people don’t take the opportunities to change that are presented to them.[/quote]
Exactly! Yet it’s a great writing tool. I’ve also seen it used with beautiful results in children’s ministry. All because it is sad, it makes one realize there are serious consequences.
[quote quote=108057]Thanks! *takes a bow* I have at least a million more Les Mis lectures saved up in my brain…[/quote]
Welcome!
I’ve got loads of lectures from saved up from random books too. 🙂 I have a habit of “preaching” to an invisible audience in my head, topics ranging from salvation to high heels. XD
[quote quote=108057]Good point! I love that quote. It’s so true.
It totally is! That’s why God’s Word is so amazing.[/quote]
It is! I’ve recently been compiling verses on the godhead, and it’s amazing how one passage will clarify another.
[quote quote=108057]That’s another good thing about allegory! It’s really handy in describing what a true Christian looks like, like C.S. Lewis did with the Pevensie kids in Narnia.[/quote]
That’s true! (Am getting so excited about this.)
[quote quote=108057]No, don’t give up on it! I’ve considered giving up on my Biblical fiction series so many times, but I know I could never do it because I love it so much and am so passionate about it, and besides I feel called to write it. I think it really sounds like God has placed this allegorical story on your heart. Our stories can get really complicated and confusing at times, but writing them is a big project, and there will be ups and downs. It is really hard to actually write out the amazing ideas in our brains, but it’ll be worth it. You should totally keep going on it! And of course, if you ever want to brainstorm or just talk to another writer, you can tag me on KP anytime![/quote]
Thank you! I’ll try to keep my head up. And yours sounds so good too! It does get hard, especially when one feels like one’s going in circles. I’ll take you up on your offer, probably more than you’d like! 😉 The same goes for you, if you ever want to hash something out or share something with someone etc., feel free to tag me.
[quote quote=108057]If I’m picking up correctly on the vibe of your story (or you might have said this already yourself and I’m just super forgetful XD), it sounds like medieval fantasy. So do you have medieval doctors’ practices or, like, apothecary practices? If so, do they use the same methods that real medieval doctors used, like bloodletting and stuff? (Medieval doctors didn’t really know a lot and kind of hurt a bunch of people, as you can imagine!)[/quote]
Yes, it is medieval fantasy.
This is so good, I hadn’t thought about this. Okay, let’s see: the doctors are authentic, and they use similar practices. Basically, anything within reason, like no leaches or holes in heads.
[quote quote=108057]Or are the doctors false, and the healers are completely different people who possess the only power effective in helping the sick/injured?[/quote]
I think the doctors are real, but they can’t do enough. Only One with the power of life and victory over death can heal serious/fatal injuries/illnesses.
I really need to sort out what death is in my series. I think it’s like here, but just a bit more literal, so it’s the result of seperation/Rebellion from the King, but for His own who have been given Life, it is only a time of waiting till the kingdom is healed. I think it sounds rusty, you?
[quote quote=108057]Maybe you could have mentors and mentees (or apprentices), too!
Btw, are there schools in your world, and what kind of schools?[/quote]
Maybe! I love the idea of apprentices. I’ll have to sort this out, but it sounds great!
As for the schools, sort of. Parents teach their kids their craft, and well-to-do sometimes hire masters to train their children various skills. Reading and writing are not skills open to the poor very often. Most knights can read/write, and some hold meetings to teach the poor/serfs both these skills and about the King. Alwin is reached through this, and he continues it later on. There is a place where knights are trained, but I haven’t figured out a name for it. How does this sound? Does it make sense?
[quote quote=108057]Hmm, that’s good! Like they’ll be able to tell whether something is from the King or (insert your allegory’s representation of the devil)?[/quote]
Exactly! For instance, there is one time when Winifrith draws blade on two travelers and forces them from their village, much to Aethel’s amazement (she’s like: “Wow! My mama is awesome.”). Of course they are muraders intent on causing trouble.
[quote quote=108057]“We feel Him instead of see Him.” That’s really good! I think it would be a good idea to have the King mostly faceless. Sort of like the Emperor-Over-the-Sea in Narnia, who is Aslan’s father and represents God but whom no one has ever seen.[/quote]
Yay! Yeah, it’s sort of like that, but the King actually does enter the scene a few times. It’s sometimes like when people now say that the presence of God is just “emotions”. Some people will say “that’s just your imagination” or “he’s an imposter” because “we never see him”. Something like that. Only those who seek Him find Him, yet everyone who seeks Him is met by Him. I think.
[quote quote=108057]You might have mentioned it already (excuse me if I’m ever forgetful XD), but do you have representatives for the entire three-thirds of the Trinity, or just for Jesus? Like, what represents God the Father, and the Holy Spirit?[/quote]
Good question. So, I sort of do. Like I said, I’m trying to make a Biblically sound allegory using the Bible as inspiration. So…
There is no other King (Deuteronomy 32:39).
The King built the kingdom, and he rules it, just like God created the world and governs everything. The Father in creation. (Genesis 1:1,etc.)
When the kingdom fell, the King comes as a son of the Lower Places. He redeems his people by his own blood, and breaks the chains of death. He is the only one who could have, the only one who had the power to free those who had rebelled against Him. (2 Corinthians 5:18-19, Colossians 1:18-20, 2:9, John 14:8-11, Hosea 13:4, Isaiah 45:21-23, )
He leaves the Lower Places with the promise that He will not leave them comfortless, but will come again, and that they will receive power when they have received His Life and He will dwell among them. Also, that He will come again in the full power of His might, and will drive Rebellion from the land and it will be healed. (1 Timothy 3:16, John 4:23-24, John 14:16-21, Joel 2:28-29, Philippians 2:10)
So, all the parts of the godhead are represented, and in form of Biblical descriptions. It needs some smoothing, but that’s basically it. 🙂
You have listened to fears, child. Come, let me breathe on you... Are you brave again? -Aslan
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Hi! Sorry it took so long to reply, I was a few sentences from finishing my response yesterday, but my phone died. Vamoose!!! There went the past hours’ work.
Oof! I hate when that happens.
Oy, a sacrificial character without an internal struggle is only half the satisfaction. If that.
You can say that again!!
There flees our protagonist, who dispute the fact that he is nearly blinded by the pain of his broken leg, is leaping up the side of the mountain, half carrying his horse. Oh, and the enemy is shooting at him the whole way.
EXACTLY! XDD I can’t describe enough how truly annoying that is.
Because, of course, it would be impossible if he had to completely carry his horse. XD
This made me laugh harder than it probably should have. 🤣🤣
Men of Iron by Howard Pyle does uncommonly well on this point. Myles spends months recovering from a serious wound and from the fever naturally occurring from the medieval medical practices of the time. During the battle that he got hurt in, you can see where adrenaline is pushing him on, but it’s all in the realms of common sense. I don’t know if you’ve read it, but it’s a good book (for more reasons than those mentioned heretofore 😉 ).
I wish more books would do that. *sigh* I know your main character is heroic, but we gotta be realistic, y’all.
*looks book up on Goodreads* Only 1.99 on Kindle? I’m in. *marks as to-read*
Poor Walter. And Una. It would be fun to rewrite it (just for the satisfaction of having given them a chance). I mean, I get why his death is one of the things that makes the book so good, but still, it couldn’t hurt. 😉
True. His death was important and had to happen for the sake of the story, but stilllll. We need some fanfiction.
Hmm, I hadn’t thought about it, but I think I agree with you. It doesn’t quite make sense. Of all the couples, she had to break up the perfect one. We authors are weird. XD
I KNOWWWW. Well, I guess she just wanted to make her readers suffer, like any other weird author. 😉
Exactly! Yet it’s a great writing tool. I’ve also seen it used with beautiful results in children’s ministry. All because it is sad, it makes one realize there are serious consequences.
^^^ THIS
I’ve got loads of lectures from saved up from random books too. 🙂 I have a habit of “preaching” to an invisible audience in my head, topics ranging from salvation to high heels. XD
Saaame here! Hey, at least that audience doesn’t interrupt, haha.
It is! I’ve recently been compiling verses on the godhead, and it’s amazing how one passage will clarify another.
The godhead is a really cool (and complex) subject.
Thank you! I’ll try to keep my head up. And yours sounds so good too! It does get hard, especially when one feels like one’s going in circles. I’ll take you up on your offer, probably more than you’d like! 😉 The same goes for you, if you ever want to hash something out or share something with someone etc., feel free to tag me.
Thanks! Ah yeah, I feel like that a lot too with my stories. Sometimes writing is tedious, like a hamster wheel, but it pays off in the end.
Yay, thank you! I’m always up for a good writing discussion!
Okay, let’s see: the doctors are authentic, and they use similar practices. Basically, anything within reason, like no leaches or holes in heads.
Thank goodness for your characters! *sighs in relief*
I think the doctors are real, but they can’t do enough. Only One with the power of life and victory over death can heal serious/fatal injuries/illnesses.
This makes sense.
I really need to sort out what death is in my series. I think it’s like here, but just a bit more literal, so it’s the result of seperation/Rebellion from the King, but for His own who have been given Life, it is only a time of waiting till the kingdom is healed. I think it sounds rusty, you?
Actually, no! It could be as simple as rebels dying and staying dead, while the redeemed remain in their graves for only a little while until the kingdom is healed. Is that kind of what you had in mind?
As for the schools, sort of. Parents teach their kids their craft, and well-to-do sometimes hire masters to train their children various skills. Reading and writing are not skills open to the poor very often. Most knights can read/write, and some hold meetings to teach the poor/serfs both these skills and about the King. Alwin is reached through this, and he continues it later on. There is a place where knights are trained, but I haven’t figured out a name for it. How does this sound? Does it make sense?
I think this sounds really good! It fits with the medieval fantasy genre but works with the allegory too, which is what you want.
Exactly! For instance, there is one time when Winifrith draws blade on two travelers and forces them from their village, much to Aethel’s amazement (she’s like: “Wow! My mama is awesome.”). Of course they are muraders intent on causing trouble.
Awesome! That sounds like it would be a cool scene to write.
Yay! Yeah, it’s sort of like that, but the King actually does enter the scene a few times. It’s sometimes like when people now say that the presence of God is just “emotions”. Some people will say “that’s just your imagination” or “he’s an imposter” because “we never see him”. Something like that. Only those who seek Him find Him, yet everyone who seeks Him is met by Him. I think.
True, true.
The only thing I was thinking was that it might be pretty tough to describe the King when he’s actually in the scene? I think it’s a great idea to have him enter physically a few times, but stuff like that is definitely one of the hardest parts of an allegory to get right, I think.
There is no other King (Deuteronomy 32:39).
The King built the kingdom, and he rules it, just like God created the world and governs everything. The Father in creation. (Genesis 1:1,etc.)
When the kingdom fell, the King comes as a son of the Lower Places. He redeems his people by his own blood, and breaks the chains of death. He is the only one who could have, the only one who had the power to free those who had rebelled against Him. (2 Corinthians 5:18-19, Colossians 1:18-20, 2:9, John 14:8-11, Hosea 13:4, Isaiah 45:21-23, )
He leaves the Lower Places with the promise that He will not leave them comfortless, but will come again, and that they will receive power when they have received His Life and He will dwell among them. Also, that He will come again in the full power of His might, and will drive Rebellion from the land and it will be healed. (1 Timothy 3:16, John 4:23-24, John 14:16-21, Joel 2:28-29, Philippians 2:10)
So, all the parts of the godhead are represented, and in form of Biblical descriptions. It needs some smoothing, but that’s basically it. 🙂
Okay, this all sounds brilliant! I love how you’ve really researched it and have a bunch of Bible passages to back it up, not just one or two. I think it’ll work out great! 😀
@joy-caroline
Oof! I hate when that happens.
Me too. (Wanna guess why I’m late again?)
This made me laugh harder than it probably should have.
Good! XD But, yeah, it does get annoying.
I wish more books would do that. *sigh* I know your main character is heroic, but we gotta be realistic, y’all.
Yes! Ugh.
(Hope you enjoy it.)
I KNOWWWW. Well, I guess she just wanted to make her readers suffer, like any other weird author. 😉
😉 I guess so.
Saaame here! Hey, at least that audience doesn’t interrupt, haha.
Ha, ha. But they do! 😉 At least only when I want them to. 🙂
The godhead is a really cool (and complex) subject.
It is.
Thanks! Ah yeah, I feel like that a lot too with my stories. Sometimes writing is tedious, like a hamster wheel, but it pays off in the end.
Yay, thank you! I’m always up for a good writing discussion!
It’s good to know there’s hope. 😉 This discussion has been a great encouragement and has helped a lot. Thanks!
Thank goodness for your characters! *sighs in relief*
XD Exactly!
I’m glad it makes sense. It’ll be so exiting to see how it works out!
Actually, no! It could be as simple as rebels dying and staying dead, while the redeemed remain in their graves for only a little while until the kingdom is healed. Is that kind of what you had in mind?
Really? Yay! Yes, it is sort of what I had in mind. I only wonder if, since death is just a place of waiting for eternity, should there be more than just staying dead?
So in other words, should the unredeemed share punishment with _____, the master they serve?
The books will never get this far because I don’t think I can adequately portray that, although I might have some sort of epilogue about it. I just want to have all the allegory beaten out. 😉
Yet death is the end of Rebellion, both the first and the second. The punishment is a sort of death, and the redeemed are saved from it. The rebels would have no place in the healed land.
(Brainstorm thunders overhead.)
Ideas?
I think this sounds really good! It fits with the medieval fantasy genre but works with the allegory too, which is what you want.
*Whoop!* That’s exactly what I want. Yay!
Awesome! That sounds like it would be a cool scene to write.
I’m looking forward to it. 🙂
True, true.
The only thing I was thinking was that it might be pretty tough to describe the King when he’s actually in the scene? I think it’s a great idea to have him enter physically a few times, but stuff like that is definitely one of the hardest parts of an allegory to get right, I think.
Yeah, I’ve been wondering about that ever since I first got the inspiration for this. I can’t describe Him, not like in Arethtrea, or Narnia, at least. I have fiddled with the idea of complete invisibility, but it just seemed weird. So far I think I’ll describe His presence, and how He affects the characters. And anyway, it’s not untill the kingdom is healed that they will be able to really see Him.
Agreed. It is definitely one of the absolute hardest parts in allegory.
Okay, this all sounds brilliant! I love how you’ve really researched it and have a bunch of Bible passages to back it up, not just one or two. I think it’ll work out great! 😀
Huzzah! (I love looking up Bible passages.) I’m glad you think so. It’ll be a good challenge.
You have listened to fears, child. Come, let me breathe on you... Are you brave again? -Aslan
@joy-caroline @elishavet-pidyon
Both of y’all’s books sound amazing! (Yes I’ve been stalking this topic =] ) I hope they get published soon so I can read them.
I’m not writing an allegory in particular, but simply portraying truths in a different way. (Or is that what a parable is?) However, I keep running into rough spots. Here’s one.
- I’m not sure what to call God. My characters are animals (wolves, foxes, cats, ect.), but as there are no people in this world they are basically the same thing, just furry (If that makes sense).
First Grand Historian of Arreth and the Lesser Realms (aka Kitty)
Fork the Gork- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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Me too. (Wanna guess why I’m late again?)
Oh dear.
(Hope you enjoy it.)
Me too! I’ll get around to it after I’ve finished a ton of other books on my TBR, then I’ll tag you and tell you what I thought. 🙂
It’s good to know there’s hope. 😉 This discussion has been a great encouragement and has helped a lot. Thanks!
Anytime, anytime! Like I said, I LOVE allegories so there’s never a time when I’m not up to discuss an allegorical WIP (or any WIP in general, haha). Some writer-to-writer talk always helps me a lot, too!
Really? Yay! Yes, it is sort of what I had in mind. I only wonder if, since death is just a place of waiting for eternity, should there be more than just staying dead?
So in other words, should the unredeemed share punishment with _____, the master they serve?
The books will never get this far because I don’t think I can adequately portray that, although I might have some sort of epilogue about it. I just want to have all the allegory beaten out. 😉
Yet death is the end of Rebellion, both the first and the second. The punishment is a sort of death, and the redeemed are saved from it. The rebels would have no place in the healed land.
(Brainstorm thunders overhead.)
Ideas?
Yeah, I definitely agree with you that that would be a hard thing to portray! It’s a good idea to have the allegory all thought out, though.
Well, we know that the Bible tells us the punishment of the wicked is staying dead forever. So I think it’d be a good idea to have the punishment of the rebels be that they die forever and never live again, instead of living to experience some kind of punishment with the master they serve. And like you said, the redeemed would get the reward of the healed land, or the allegorical representation of heaven.
Yeah, I’ve been wondering about that ever since I first got the inspiration for this. I can’t describe Him, not like in Arethtrea, or Narnia, at least. I have fiddled with the idea of complete invisibility, but it just seemed weird. So far I think I’ll describe His presence, and how He affects the characters. And anyway, it’s not untill the kingdom is healed that they will be able to really see Him.
Agreed. It is definitely one of the absolute hardest parts in allegory.
That sounds good, and you can always rethink it and rewrite things in edits to see what works best! Nothing’s final until you’ve finished the final draft and decided that the story is exactly where you want it to be.
I wouldn’t worry too much about all the details right now; it often helps to actually spend time in the storyworld to figure out where you should go with a story. Many of these details will likely become clearer and clearer to you as you write and explore the possibilities.
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Both of y’all’s books sound amazing! (Yes I’ve been stalking this topic =] ) I hope they get published soon so I can read them.
Haha, thank you so much!
I’m not writing an allegory in particular, but simply portraying truths in a different way. (Or is that what a parable is?) However, I keep running into rough spots. Here’s one.
I’m not sure what to call God. My characters are animals (wolves, foxes, cats, ect.), but as there are no people in this world they are basically the same thing, just furry (If that makes sense).
Hmm, yeah, that definitely sounds like a parable!
Ah, I see. That can be a toughie! In the Chronicles of Narnia, C.S. Lewis chose the name Aslan for his allegorical representative of Jesus, and “Aslan” actually means “lion” which is funny because Aslan was a lion. So you could do something as simple as that – choose a word that describes God (the word “lion” describes God because Jesus is called the “lion of Judah”) and then search up names with that meaning.
That’s one suggestion I’ve got. Do you have any ideas, @elishavet-pidyon? You’re experienced with allegories, so you might know more about this than I do!
@joy-caroline
Apparently my email notifications are acting up again. =\
That could work, especially since each of the cultures/nations in my books are based off real life languages/regions. Maybe I could work It into the themes too.
(But then, I’m not exactly writing an allegory, so should I even have a different name for God? I’ve tried to just write untill I figured it out, but I can’t even get past the first chapter without this.)
First Grand Historian of Arreth and the Lesser Realms (aka Kitty)
Fork the Gork- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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Hmm, you don’t have to have a different name for God if you don’t think you need one! In fact, if you’re not sure, I’d recommend just referring to God as God until you figure some stuff out.
I’m so sorry if that’s not too helpful. 😅
@joy-caroline
Me too! I’ll get around to it after I’ve finished a ton of other books on my TBR, then I’ll tag you and tell you what I thought. 🙂
Yes! That would be fun! (My TBR list is steadily growing. It’s not yet alarming, but… 😉)
Anytime, anytime! Like I said, I LOVE allegories so there’s never a time when I’m not up to discuss an allegorical WIP (or any WIP in general, haha). Some writer-to-writer talk always helps me a lot, too!
Yay!
I’ve a weakness for allegory. (And knights, bowmen, historical clothing, and fried chicken.) Therefore, WIP discussions are great! (Okay, okay, the writing part might play a minor
majorrole.)Yeah, I definitely agree with you that that would be a hard thing to portray! It’s a good idea to have the allegory all thought out, though.
Ugh, yes. But yeah!
*Realizes how funny those two fragments are together.*
Well, we know that the Bible tells us the punishment of the wicked is staying dead forever. So I think it’d be a good idea to have the punishment of the rebels be that they die forever and never live again, instead of living to experience some kind of punishment with the master they serve. And like you said, the redeemed would get the reward of the healed land, or the allegorical representation of heaven.
True, and it might be a lot simpler than a whole rewrite of the book of Revelations. 😉
The punishment/end of the Rebellion is death. (James 1:15) So, I think that might be a good way to end _____, if he is killed. Then the land would be healed when all the Rebellion was expulsed and life would be restored. Those servants of the King who were dead might be awakened then or when it is time to go forth to battle. Hmmm….
I might have to write an epilogue for the dear reader who is still furious over Alwin. 😂
That sounds good, and you can always rethink it and rewrite things in edits to see what works best! Nothing’s final until you’ve finished the final draft and decided that the story is exactly where you want it to be.
I wouldn’t worry too much about all the details right now; it often helps to actually spend time in the storyworld to figure out where you should go with a story. Many of these details will likely become clearer and clearer to you as you write and explore the possibilities.
That’s so true! There will probably be a bunch of changing, but that should mean it’s good, right? 🙂
You have listened to fears, child. Come, let me breathe on you... Are you brave again? -Aslan
@joy-caroline
That’s alright, and no, this was helpful. It got the random tumbling threads to straighten out a bit.=)
First Grand Historian of Arreth and the Lesser Realms (aka Kitty)
Fork the GorkThanks! Sorry it’s taken so long to get back with you, but hi! 🙂
I agree with Joy. If all creation praises God, it wouldn’t be weird to have a deity in a world of animals, especially since the animals are all too human. If you want a different name for God, then maybe an attribute name would be good.what is He to your different peoples- er creatures?
I do have a question, though. So, I know the wolves, foxes, and cats all serve the same God, but do the dogs? Or is that one thing that has been widely abandoned as a “wolfish” thing? Would that be why the dogs are so blind to their own heartlessness (other than the fact that they are angry)? Also, would that be the age-old difference in between dogs?
Anyway, that was a long and probably confusing rambling question. I’ve been wondering this for a while, so it might have been jumbled.
You have listened to fears, child. Come, let me breathe on you... Are you brave again? -Aslan
Good question. So, this is a point in which they’re rather human. All creatures used to worship God, but as time passes many forgot their Creator. This is actually one of the things so terribly wrong with the wolfish government, one of the trials my characters have to face this setting isn’t all that different from this world in that regard. Sure, there are some creatures that as a whole have held on over the years (Foxes for instance), but even among them many have fallen away. I’m afraid this is a rather dark setting, but I’m also incorporating ‘Fields white unto harvest’.
First Grand Historian of Arreth and the Lesser Realms (aka Kitty)
Fork the GorkThat’s good! If it is dark, it’s familiar too.
You have listened to fears, child. Come, let me breathe on you... Are you brave again? -Aslan
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Sorry it’s taken me a few days to reply! This week has been crazy busy with all the events going on at my school. I’ve hardly had a moment to catch my breath. XD
True, and it might be a lot simpler than a whole rewrite of the book of Revelations. 😉
The punishment/end of the Rebellion is death. (James 1:15) So, I think that might be a good way to end _____, if he is killed. Then the land would be healed when all the Rebellion was expulsed and life would be restored. Those servants of the King who were dead might be awakened then or when it is time to go forth to battle. Hmmm….
I might have to write an epilogue for the dear reader who is still furious over Alwin. 😂
Yeah, it probably would be simpler! Haha.
That sounds like a solid plan. And maybe the epilogue can show Alwin’s resurrection too for the furious readers. XD
That’s so true! There will probably be a bunch of changing, but that should mean it’s good, right? 🙂
Exactamundo!
Oh, and by the way, I asked my chaplain and principal at our meeting this week that question about thinking one is saved. They said it’s indeed possible for someone to think one is saved when one is really not, but in that case, there hasn’t been true repentance. You and me for example can have complete assurance that we are saved. 🙂
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