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So, I have noticed that I’m not the only person using symbolism in my WIP, and I thought it would be beneficial to have a place to discuss our allegories and find both inspiration and critique. Hence this board.
This is for all the parable tellers around here, whether your tale is a complete retelling of a Bible story, or dedicated to expanding upon a truth in an unexpected way. This is a place to beat out quirks and plug holes. It may even be a place to share a fresh breath of inspiration, or shed tears over the deadlock of frustration. Whatever this becomes, may it be an inkwell to refill our battered pens.
You have listened to fears, child. Come, let me breathe on you... Are you brave again? -Aslan
This is interesting! I am not quite sure if I understand the meaning of this thread correctly, but I recently wrote a short story that addressed the importance of our individual lives. It’s addressed in a very strong, yet discreet way. Maybe I could share it to spark some possible inspiration? 🤷♀️
Words have the ability to touch the darkest souls... The receiver must simply allow them to.
Hmm, maybe! You’re most certainly welcome to. Your story sounds interesting indeed!!!
That opening post was a bit unclear. (Oops) I was in a poetic mood at the time of its authorship.
@joy-caroline
Thank you for your wonderful imput, it was encouraging. Don’t worry about being late to reply. I’m often not the quickest myself, and anyway, I’ve been exceedingly busy the past while as well. Life gets crazy at times, and finals are no jest.
So I’m going ahead and moving this discussion over here, just because it might fit better.
Yes! I’d LOVE to share/discuss WIPs together, and your story is probably just fine here too. Paul is a favorite Bible character of mine.
It’s a series, definitely. So far, (I think) the first book will be focused on William and Alwin with Winifrith being at the most a very side character. The second would focus more on Alwin and Winifrith, and the last would be over Aethelthryth in main. (The only book she’s in.)
More about Alwin and Winifrith? Yes please.
I might have down played it a little much. 😉 So I’m excited about their story, because it would be an example a of real godly love story (not a penny-novel-never-going-to-happen-like-that-kind)
My one difficulty is that, strangely, I keep seeing it out of allegory, in real life. For instance, Alwin meets her at a (prayer) meeting, but how do I make that fit?
But for the basis, so you know Alwin ends up fighting for her/with her. After this there is a section of time where Alwin goes to aid an older knight in a distant part of the kingdom and she helps her father, but soon he ends up in the same region (through William, if I’m not mistaken). They are both stronger now, having weathered a few trials, so understanding their identities, they become close friends. And soon get married, of course! 😉
I’m glad you liked the point on serfs, it definitely plays a huge role. 🙂 I’m considering having some people try to belittle Aethel by telling her ‘she’s just the daughter of a serf’, when they are themselves in captivity – just not in the obvious chains. Plus, it’s a blatant lie: Alwin was more than a serf. He was the King’s Freeman and a mighty man of valor.
Anyway, *end of ramble* I’d love to hear about your work, and thank you again! I don’t know about you, but I can sort out tons of ideas if I can talk them out. 😉
You have listened to fears, child. Come, let me breathe on you... Are you brave again? -Aslan
@Elishavet Pidyon
I can give it a try! Feel free to let me know if it doesn’t count. Lol.
A Sleepless Year
I once believed that life was a story untold, but now I know ’tis not true. My source of knowledge does not come from where one may presume. I did not learn from a wise old mentor or a parental guardian. I acquired such knowledge by the ways of a sleepless year.
To understand what I proclaim, you must go back to where it started. A place where the full moon smiles down on the bottomless tranquility of Chuphshah Grove.
The breeze whistled through the moss-adorned oaks, the stars above captivating my imagination. They twinkled without a second thought, reflecting atop the lake as if there was nothing to fear. Perhaps because goodbye did not exist for them. It’s perfect up there, my brain concluded.
“What if you could fly? Would you touch the sky or graze the waters below?” I asked my redheaded friend that stood beside me like always.
“You take your vocabulary way too seriously.” Her lighthearted laugh tickled the air and caressed the heart within my chest.
“I’m serious! Wouldn’t it be amazing if we could fly? Surely the sky would fix all our problems.”
“Do they need fixing?” A fleeting emotion shadowed her azure eyes. She knew the truth as well as I.
“Yes, they need fixing. This is not the way it’s supposed to be.” My voice grew louder yet weary. I had fought this fight many times. We had the same conversation every day, and she answered the same every time. She would rub a smooth pebble between her delicate fingers, meeting my gaze with a tender smile. The kind of smile that reassured me of her strength and the absence of mine.
“The notes of heaven play differently than the ones on earth,” she said, twirling on her toes. “You will understand soon. Very soon.” She freed the stone from her hand, skipping it across the watery abyss in front of us. The ripples created life in Chuphshah Grove but reminded me to look down. It was time for the truth to unravel once again. Aaria was evaporating—a melody that could no longer play in my life.
Every time it was the same… She would fade, and I would stand alone in the early glow of sunrise. Then it would all replay as if it never happened. Except on this particular night, a new thing occurred.
Releasing the air I had forbidden to escape, I tucked my hands into my faded denim jeans. I enjoyed seeing Aaria day after day, but it was tiresome to watch her fade every sunrise. In that moment of questioning whether life could continue, the oaks began to whisper. They had never been so loud. Come closer, they invited me.
As I traversed the path they called me upon, going deep into their sanctuary, several trees with interlaced branches halted my search. From beyond the overgrowth, there was a whimsical and nostalgic sound. The sound of a thousand voices all tied into one by the progression of chords on a single black and white board. A sound that I knew too well.
As a child, I had learned the skill in secret, not wanting the boys at school to tease me for my choice of instrument. Now that I stood in a thicket of trees with the sound escalating around me, there would be no shying away. No branch or root would stop me.
I twisted my body between the interlaced boughs, forcing my way to the other side. Dressed in all its elegance stood the instrument that had become a part of me in my juvenile years. The past introduced itself to my present as I stared at the piano in wonder.
Stepping closer, I pressed an index finger onto one of the keys. To my astonishment, a musical note rose and began to dance upon the zephyr. A jig like no other. Indeed, the instrument and I were still tied together by heart. I hadn’t played for a decade, but watching the note dance formed a desire in me. Could I still illustrate my pain through chord progressions like in my childhood?
“Chuphshah Grove,” I said before sitting on the stool that beckoned me to relax. “How strange can you be?”
As the sun’s rays began to shine through the wall of trees, I allowed my curiosity to take hold of me. Arranging my fingers onto the keys, the storm of emotions within escaped me at last. The more my song intensified, the stronger the wind whipped around me. As if it was cheering me on from the sidelines.
One could call it magical; I call it something more prominent. The indescribable peace that embedded itself into my muscles could not be magic. Magic cannot replace fear with a sense of wanderlust, giving a man such a strong desire to explore. To search the depths of what washed over me as my music transpired. It had soaked my innermost being beyond simplicity.
Arriving at the end of my song, I faded the chords into a harmonious melodic tune. One that spoke of freedom found in redemption. Aaria knew all along… I was just finding out.
***
And that’s when I awoke from what the doctors classified as a coma induced by a head-on collision. However, to me, it was a year void of sleep. A year that taught me how untold stories can collide into a told melody when Love is involved.
The doctors also said that my best friend not only touched the sky before me, but she also flew to the other side of it. Although, I knew long before they informed me.
One rapt note at a time, I shall continue to play the piano in remembrance of Aaria and the sleepless year. Her story was over on earth, but she made sure that mine was just beginning. That it would not be untold but rather unraveled. For me to make it into something that glorifies the other side of the sky.
Words have the ability to touch the darkest souls... The receiver must simply allow them to.
- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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Yes! I’d LOVE to share/discuss WIPs together, and your story is probably just fine here too. Paul is a favorite Bible character of mine.
Yay!
It’s a series, definitely. So far, (I think) the first book will be focused on William and Alwin with Winifrith being at the most a very side character. The second would focus more on Alwin and Winifrith, and the last would be over Aethelthryth in main. (The only book she’s in.)
Nice! I think that sounds like a good idea since you have multiple POV characters, and you’ll get to develop them fully over a series.
My St. Paul books are also a series: The Life of Sacrifice Series. I have three books planned out, with three POV characters. One is Temira, Paul’s younger sister. The other is Naamah, whose Christian family was murdered by Paul during his persecuting days. As a result, Naamah hates Paul, and believe me when I say that her hatred is not make-believe. The other POV is Seth, Paul’s youngest nephew whom he and Temira adopted. Seth is endearing, precocious, and spirited, and honestly he’s my favorite character. He provides some much-needed humor and innocence to the story. xD
I might have down played it a little much. 😉 So I’m excited about their story, because it would be an example a of real godly love story (not a penny-novel-never-going-to-happen-like-that-kind)
My one difficulty is that, strangely, I keep seeing it out of allegory, in real life. For instance, Alwin meets her at a (prayer) meeting, but how do I make that fit?
But for the basis, so you know Alwin ends up fighting for her/with her. After this there is a section of time where Alwin goes to aid an older knight in a distant part of the kingdom and she helps her father, but soon he ends up in the same region (through William, if I’m not mistaken). They are both stronger now, having weathered a few trials, so understanding their identities, they become close friends.
Ooh, awesome! I’m ALL FOR a godly love story. We need more of those in Christian fiction, I believe. I love those powerhouse married couples.
I have one little romance storyline in my series, lol. It’s between Paul’s oldest nephew, Reuben, and a former-pagan-turned-Christian woman. Their love storyline isn’t very big, since it’s certainly not one of the main focuses in the book, but Reuben’s character arc gets muuuuuch more complicated as the series goes on, and his wife ends up making a tough decision that really changes things for them. But I mustn’t go on because #spoilers. 😉
I’m glad you liked the point on serfs, it definitely plays a huge role. 🙂 I’m considering having some people try to belittle Aethel by telling her ‘she’s just the daughter of a serf’, when they are themselves in captivity – just not in the obvious chains. Plus, it’s a blatant lie: Alwin was more than a serf. He was the King’s Freeman and a mighty man of valor.
That sounds like a great idea! I love the symbolism behind it. It seems you know how to plot out a good allegory. 🙂 Because allegories are just stuffed with symbolism, after all.
Anyway, *end of ramble* I’d love to hear about your work, and thank you again! I don’t know about you, but I can sort out tons of ideas if I can talk them out. 😉
Same here!
Question: Do you have a fave character from your series?
Like I mentioned before, my fave would have to be Seth if I were compelled to choose, but I love Temira and Naamah so so so much. And, of course, Paul is the absolute best, but he doesn’t really count since he’s the really obvious fave character. xD
I love Seth’s purity and innocence. It’s so interesting to write from the perspective of a little child in this series because while all the adult POVs tend to become intensely dark and hopeless, Seth’s child-innocence keeps his POV humorous and with a ray of light despite the fact he goes through far too much for his little soul. Going into his POV, a lot of it consists of his anxiety that Paul and Temira don’t love him and that he’s just a burden on them.
He’s just such a lovely character. xD Not to mention that his relationship with his Uncle Paul is absolutely adorable. And heartwrenching.
Your series is beautiful. I usually don’t read Biblical fiction, because sometimes authors deviate from scripture which only serves to confuse my view of a Bible character. Yours sounds so good, though, and I’m excited to see where you’ll take it!
Awww, Seth sounds like a wonderful character to write and read about. I have a similar person in my other series named Nadian who is essentially a bundle of innocent hope. Children add such light in our insane plots. 😉
[quote quote=107965]Reuben’s character arc gets muuuuuch more complicated as the series goes on, and his wife ends up making a tough decision that really changes things for them.[/quote]
Oh no! 😉 Sounds interesting (and worrisome). Also, where is she from? Gaul, Brittonia, etc.??
Totally-random-but-acually-is-related question: did you ever read Tullus? (If that’s how it’s spelled) They were a bunch of short books (in pictures like comic books but not what I’d consider comic books) from the 1970’s about a fictional 1st century Christain missionary. A little crazy at times, but good. I liked that he traveled to countries as they might have existed in that day and age.
Question: is Seth the nephew who tells Paul and the Roman chief captain about one of the plots against Paul in Acts 23? That’s one of my all-time favorite Bible stories, and the wordage used is a big reason. Isn’t is amazing how Scripture records such tiny, specific details?
[quote quote=107965]Question: Do you have a fave character from your series?[/quote]
Oof, that’s a hard one. I love Alwin for his unceasing vision to reach another soul, even when he knows he is putting himself in horrible danger, and his victorious testimony. I love Winifrith for her background (the most like mine), early confusion, pure faith, and her decision to be Alwin’s helpmeet and follow her calling when she’s far from blind concerning the probable dire consequences. Honestly, she challenges me. Sir William’s personality, his gentle kindness and stubborn nature, are so interesting when knighted. He has a unique understanding of false doctrine that influences his every disire. Aethelthryth is the continuation of the King’s work in the next generation as Alwin’s burden is passed to her. There is quite a bit of childhood awe early on in her book, and I think it comes back later on.
That’s all nice, but my a favorite? 😉 Ick. I think Winifrith or Alwin. I don’t know.
You have listened to fears, child. Come, let me breathe on you... Are you brave again? -Aslan
Aww, it’s so sweet and musical. I like how you incorporated melody into it, and your description of Aaria’s death is beautiful. It’s one of those stories that obviously has a backstory but more isn’t really needed.
You have listened to fears, child. Come, let me breathe on you... Are you brave again? -Aslan
Thank you. I appreciate that! 🙂
Words have the ability to touch the darkest souls... The receiver must simply allow them to.
Anytime!
You have listened to fears, child. Come, let me breathe on you... Are you brave again? -Aslan
- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
- Total Posts: 1379
Your series is beautiful. I usually don’t read Biblical fiction, because sometimes authors deviate from scripture which only serves to confuse my view of a Bible character. Yours sounds so good, though, and I’m excited to see where you’ll take it!
First of all, thank you SO much. Second, that’s actually the very reason I chose to take Biblical fiction as my main genre. I’m discouraged by how much Biblical fiction really does deviate from Scripture to dramatize or sensationalize it. It makes me angry, too, because like, God’s Word is already beautiful and dramatic the way it is??? Sensationalizing it just makes the author look ridiculous and does exactly what you said – confuses the reader’s view of Bible characters. I write Biblical fiction to combat those ugly trends and bring the genre to readers the way it’s meant to be – beautiful, God-honoring, illuminating, and Biblically accurate.
Anyway. Rant over. xD Btw, you should read the Life of Jesus trilogy by Marjorie Holmes. Absolutely brilliant Biblical fiction that blew me away.
Children add such light in our insane plots.
RIGHT??? And often that is sorely needed. xD
Also, where is she from? Gaul, Brittonia, etc.??
*coughs* I actually haven’t decided yet. She doesn’t come in until the second book (around the midpoint most likely) so I’ll probably figure that out when I get to plotting the second book.
Totally-random-but-acually-is-related question: did you ever read Tullus? (If that’s how it’s spelled) They were a bunch of short books (in pictures like comic books but not what I’d consider comic books) from the 1970’s about a fictional 1st century Christain missionary. A little crazy at times, but good. I liked that he traveled to countries as they might have existed in that day and age.
I haven’t, but it sounds like something I’d like to check out! I love missionary stories – both real and fictional, haha.
Question: is Seth the nephew who tells Paul and the Roman chief captain about one of the plots against Paul in Acts 23? That’s one of my all-time favorite Bible stories, and the wordage used is a big reason. Isn’t is amazing how Scripture records such tiny, specific details?
He is indeed! That scene is in the third book, Seth: Anointed. I actually chose that title as an allusion to the scene. Because one of the biggest themes in the third book is how God has a purpose for each of us, even when you feel small and unimportant, which Seth certainly does. His journey in the third book has a lot to do with his discovering that he’s special in God’s sight, because God literally anointed him to save his uncle’s life and consequently the souls of many in Rome. I love it! That scene is one of those I’m most anticipating writing.
I love Alwin for his unceasing vision to reach another soul, even when he knows he is putting himself in horrible danger, and his victorious testimony.
I love the self-sacrificial characters. They’re the absolute best and always win my heart over all others. What kind of danger does Alwin meet with? Like persecution or violence? (If you can answer without spoiling anything. 😉 )
I love Winifrith for her background (the most like mine), early confusion, pure faith, and her decision to be Alwin’s helpmeet and follow her calling when she’s far from blind concerning the probable dire consequences. Honestly, she challenges me.
I love when we can relate to our own characters. Honestly, I can relate to quite a few things in all of my main characters. Especially Paul, but next to him, Temira is most like me. I projected so many of my anxieties and fears onto her. xD Anyway, I adore Winifrith choosing to stand by Alwin even when it costs her personally. That’s true love. *swoons*
Sir William’s personality, his gentle kindness and stubborn nature, are so interesting when knighted. He has a unique understanding of false doctrine that influences his every disire.
What kinds of doctrinal allegories do you use in your series? I find that stuff super interesting.
Aethelthryth is the continuation of the King’s work in the next generation as Alwin’s burden is passed to her. There is quite a bit of childhood awe early on in her book, and I think it comes back later on.
Mind if I ask how her name is pronounced? xD
I know, it’s so hard to choose a favorite! It’s like choosing a favorite pasta dish when I love them all, haha.
@joy-caroline
[quote quote=108004]Second, that’s actually the very reason I chose to take Biblical fiction as my main genre. I’m discouraged by how much Biblical fiction really does deviate from Scripture to dramatize or sensationalize it. It makes me angry, too, because like, God’s Word is already beautiful and dramatic the way it is??? Sensationalizing it just makes the author look ridiculous and does exactly what you said – confuses the reader’s view of Bible characters. I write Biblical fiction to combat those ugly trends and bring the genre to readers the way it’s meant to be – beautiful, God-honoring, illuminating, and Biblically accurate. [/quote]
Ugh, yes. Why, oh, why must authors think they have to – or that it’s just fine if they do? IT’S GOD’S WORD, not a toy?! And like you said, the Bible is moving in itself. No need for embellishment.
*Heavy sigh*
ANYWAY….
The Life of Jesus, you say? I’ll have to look into it.
[quote quote=108004]*coughs* I actually haven’t decided yet. She doesn’t come in until the second book (around the midpoint most likely) so I’ll probably figure that out when I get to plotting the second book.[/quote]
Okay, that’s fine! I understand. (Why can I still not decide on at least three people’s names?)
Missionary stories are definitely some of my favorites. (Behold Alwin…)
[quote quote=108004]I love the self-sacrificial characters. They’re the absolute best and always win my heart over all others. What kind of danger does Alwin meet with? Like persecution or violence? (If you can answer without spoiling anything. 😉 )[/quote]
I do too! Sometimes they make me want to cry, but I love them anyway. 😉 What danger? *wonders how to avoid spoilers* Both persecution and violence. You know, beatings, blackmail, mockery, threats, theft, possible execution… there’s a reason Aethel is “fatherless” before she’s two years old. It’s sad, and I would consider letting him live, but his death is too important. And it’s part of his testimony, part of Winifrith’s, part of Aethel’s. It’s true.
*Sudenly feels the need to apologise to certain characters*
I love when we can relate to our own characters. Honestly, I can relate to quite a few things in all of my main characters. Especially Paul, but next to him, Temira is most like me. I projected so many of my anxieties and fears onto her. xD Anyway, I adore Winifrith choosing to stand by Alwin even when it costs her personally. That’s true love. *swoons*
Yesssss. It makes them so much more alive, and infusing much of my uncertainties into Aethel and Winifrith helped me see a character I could enjoy bringing to victory.
Isn’t it? XD *digs around for the smelling salts*
[quote quote=108004]What kinds of doctrinal allegories do you use in your series? I find that stuff super interesting.[/quote]
So do I. False doctrine, believing in an artificial hope, chokes me up. To me, thinking one’s saved, and not being so, is almost worse than just ignorance of salvation, because when one believes in something false, they’re less likely to realize the truth. I don’t know if that makes sense, or if it’s even correct, but there it is. Anyway, here are the main ones:
The King gave himself as a ransom for the bound people opening the way to Freedom and life = God came as Jesus to redeem his people and open the way to Heaven and New Life.
The King’s people are loyal servants who know the King personally. They live ready for war, vigilant, dedicated. = we follow God and find our direction and purpose in him. He is our Shepherd, our Abba Father. Living holy and dedicated to God is not a world of ‘shalt nots’, but a place of ‘I won’t, because of Him, because I can because of Him’.
Weapons= the Word and the Spirit. Sometimes gifts.
False doctrines would be denying that the King ransomed the people, denying the King in the first place, the everyone’s saved anyway, the King is not powerful, His people don’t carry His power, salvation is only for a few, etc.
And I actually need to work on getting all this worked out. Any ideas?
It is Seth? Yay! I wondered. 😉 That sounds like a powerful way to incorporate that story, a nd such a good character development. It’s a hard thing to remember, that there is a purpose for every one of us, but it shouldn’t be. OoooOooOoo I’m looking forward to it too.
Of course you can ask! Her name’s a wee bit complicated, (Old English names can be that) and I might end up going with the “newer” version of Audrey. Anyway, it’s A(as in hay)-eth(like beth)-el(like bell)-thrith(i like if). I think that’s how it’s pronounced, at least it’s close. 😉 I’ll probably call her Aethel most if not all of the time.
Exactly. I choose chicken manicotti! 😉
You have listened to fears, child. Come, let me breathe on you... Are you brave again? -Aslan
- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
- Total Posts: 1379
Ugh, yes. Why, oh, why must authors think they have to – or that it’s just fine if they do? IT’S GOD’S WORD, not a toy?! And like you said, the Bible is moving in itself. No need for embellishment.
EXACTLY! Stole the words right outta my mouth.
What danger? *wonders how to avoid spoilers* Both persecution and violence. You know, beatings, blackmail, mockery, threats, theft, possible execution… there’s a reason Aethel is “fatherless” before she’s two years old. It’s sad, and I would consider letting him live, but his death is too important. And it’s part of his testimony, part of Winifrith’s, part of Aethel’s. It’s true.
*Sudenly feels the need to apologise to certain characters*
Yeesh. Poor Alwin.
NO WAY. You’re gonna kill him off!? *sobs* Btw, I just finished reading a novel, and my favorite character died near the end. That left me seriously questioning why my favorite character is ALWAYS the one the author decides to kill off. I have such bad luck. *sobs again* I think it’s because my favorite character is pretty much always a sidekick or mentor, and those two character categories are the most in danger of getting murdered by the author. The protagonist is almost never my fave, and being a story’s protagonist basically means you’re guaranteed to live.
In fact, the only protagonist who has ever been my favorite character is Jean Valjean from Les Misérables. (Which you totally MUST read if you haven’t already.) Idk why I never get really attached to the protagonists.
What about you? What book characters are usually your favorite? The sidekick, the mentor, the main character, etc.? Have you ever really connected with a protag?
Tbh, I like antags way better than protags.
And dude, I feel the need to apologize to my characters all. The. Time. I really do make those poor creatures suffer. *evil author cackle*
So do I. False doctrine, believing in an artificial hope, chokes me up. To me, thinking one’s saved, and not being so, is almost worse than just ignorance of salvation, because when one believes in something false, they’re less likely to realize the truth. I don’t know if that makes sense, or if it’s even correct, but there it is.
Hmm, that’s a really interesting topic – and one I admittedly don’t know too much about. You’re really making me think here! xD I’m not sure it’s possible to believe you’re saved and not be so in reality – I’ve always sort of vaguely thought that believing you’re saved means you are ?? But I haven’t really given it much thought.
I have Bible study with my principal and chaplain once a week. I should ask them about that.
The King’s people are loyal servants who know the King personally. They live ready for war, vigilant, dedicated. = we follow God and find our direction and purpose in him. He is our Shepherd, our Abba Father. Living holy and dedicated to God is not a world of ‘shalt nots’, but a place of ‘I won’t, because of Him, because I can because of Him’.
Ooooh, I love that! I think you’ve put it perfectly. Christianity shouldn’t be about everything we’re not supposed to do, but about our personal decision, made with the free will and thought God grants us, to obey Christ’s laws because we want to and not because we feel forced to.
Goodness, but that was a mouthful. xD I hope it made sense.
Weapons= the Word and the Spirit. Sometimes gifts.
Btw, I’m curious: Does your fantasy world have a magic system? Like in Narnia?
It is Seth? Yay! I wondered. 😉 That sounds like a powerful way to incorporate that story, a nd such a good character development. It’s a hard thing to remember, that there is a purpose for every one of us, but it shouldn’t be. OoooOooOoo I’m looking forward to it too.
I think so, too! Ack I’m just so excited to write it. xD
Of course you can ask! Her name’s a wee bit complicated, (Old English names can be that) and I might end up going with the “newer” version of Audrey. Anyway, it’s A(as in hay)-eth(like beth)-el(like bell)-thrith(i like if).
Oh, okay. That’s such a pretty name! Even if it’s a little confusing to the eye, haha.
I’ll probably call her Aethel most if not all of the time.
Yeah, I would too. Mainly because always typing the full name would get repetitively tiresome, lol.
Exactly. I choose chicken manicotti! 😉
Yum. 😋 An excellent choice!
@joy-caroline
XD Oh no! Yeah, I would like him to live longer, but I think it’s an important plot point, character struggle, and place to relate to the reader. He is a protagonist, though, so… I don’t know. For a complete confession, (and funny fact) I actually made his character starting from his death and moving backward. It’s been an interesting way to develop a character, that’s for certain! As time passed, he has become more “alive”.
I started to read Les Misserables, but I got discouraged by Hugo’s bunny trails somewhere in the (fourth?) book ‘Cosette’. I know the storyline, though, and I understand how Jean Valjean would be a favorite character.
[quote quote=108025]What about you? What book characters are usually your favorite? The sidekick, the mentor, the main character, etc.? Have you ever really connected with a protag?[/quote]
Hmm, good question. I do really love mentor and sidekick characters, but I can also get very connected with the protagonist. I haven’t really thought about this before. I like a lot of protagonists, and hurt or triumph with them, but to connect? If there’s a side character/protagonist I’ll usually be behind them all the way, if they’re dealing with some big problem or hurt. Definitely if they have quirks. For instance, I loved both Heather and Picket, but also Smalls, Weezey, Jo, Sween, and Wilfred – all side-main characters in the Green Ember series. Rilla of course, but also Una and Walter (Rilla of Ingelside). Myles and Sir James Lee from Men if Iron; Artham and Janner of Wingfeather; Lucy, Peter, Edmund, Puddleglum, Tirian, Shasta, Hwin, and Caspian of Narnia; and Effie Harris from To Love a Broken Winged Angel (one of the few books that made me cry. It almost ends in the deepest hurt of rejection, [and then I cried in relief] I was like “Eek, this book is borrowed. I can’t get the pages wet!” XD). Anyway, I think I mostly connect with the protagonist, then with a side character, and come to think of it, I think I usually end up like you on doomed charries! They’re usually just so much deeper…
[quote quote=108025]Tbh, I like antags way better than protags.[/quote]
Really? Hmm, That depends on the antagonist, for me. Martha Harris who is cruel, but only because she’s been blinded by superstition? I can forgive her and come to like her. However, I will admit that I don’t like Javert, or the Thenandres-whatever-their-name-is. Still, I didn’t finish that story so-? But then, sometimes a well-written antagonist is more interesting than the protagonist. Most of the books I’ve read recently had a villain as the antagonist, and they weren’t very nice.
Although the Earl of Albany in Men of Iron has an interesting background, he’s a horrible person.
I know, the poor creatures. They didn’t ask for this…
[quote quote=108025]Hmm, that’s a really interesting topic – and one I admittedly don’t know too much about. You’re really making me think here! xD I’m not sure it’s possible to believe you’re saved and not be so in reality – I’ve always sort of vaguely thought that believing you’re saved means you are ?? But I haven’t really given it much thought.[/quote]
It is a challenging subject. This is what I believe the Bible says on the subject: We all believe in something, worship something. Some worship God, some devils, some man, but there is only one truth. One way to God. “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12. There is only one alternative to the second death. Sometimes truth is mixed in the lies, but anything other than God is false, the concealing truths just help make the lie more believable. Before He comes, all people will have heard His message, and whether they are taken up depends on their acceptance of it – Him. When one is convinced a lie is truth – or determined to be convinced it is, it makes it harder for them to be saved. They have rejected Him. All people are on different levels of relationship with God and the closer they get to him, the more they will see of His truth. That does not mean that when you know truth you are saved of course, but salvation depends on obedience to His word, and relationship with Him. Matthew 7:21-23 “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in the name? and in the name have cast out devils? and in the name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” I John 2, 4:1-3, are also very good on this subject, specifically addressing lies and false teachings and true obedience.
When it comes to believing you’re saved and not being so, I’ll try to explain what I meant. I firmly believe that you know when you’re saved, but there are many that although they have not followed the scriptures, they fully think they are saved. There are many wayward christains who are not known of God. Our Lord has made the straight road of salvation very clear, but the enemy is hard at work to confuse people. One of the most effective ways is to teach people falsehoods to screen them from His light. False religions to faulty doctrines, there are a multitude of ways this is shown in our world. It’s like counterfeit money. Sometimes it looks so close to the really thing, but when you’ve handled true cash enough, the false is found greatly lacking. It isn’t real.
We are to follow God, and if we do, if we let Jesus be the voice in our life, if we obey his word, he will open his truth to us. He doesn’t leave us doubting anything. Salvation is more than emotions. When we have been washed in His blood, when his name is over us and he lives inside us, there is no doubt of salvation.
And that was longer than I intended. I hope it gives some food for thought (and that it made sense, and I didn’t say explain anything wrong), and I’d be interested to hear what your Bible study principal and chaplain think about it. This is definitely a subject I’d like to study.
[quote quote=108025]Ooooh, I love that! I think you’ve put it perfectly. Christianity shouldn’t be about everything we’re not supposed to do, but about our personal decision, made with the free will and thought God grants us, to obey Christ’s laws because we want to and not because we feel forced to.[/quote]
Yes, yes, exactly! It’s not bondage, but freedom.
[quote quote=108025]Btw, I’m curious: Does your fantasy world have a magic system? Like in Narnia?[/quote]
I haven’t added one. The King is powerful, and there are some slightly strange things that happen. (I mean, a real reserection without God isn’t humanly possible.) So far I don’t want to use one, since I want to find a better word than “magic”. I love Narnia, and the use of magic as an allegory doesn’t bother me, but there is none in my books. Some things the people don’t understand, because those things are of the Higher Places. The Rebellion caused a division between the realms, and untill they are united, there are things that will remain mysteries. Those with a deeper understanding of the King and His wats, are sometimes a little, um, different. Just like Christains can be different.
For gifts, it will be like they have a skill, or for prophesy, the King tells them things to tell others, and for the gift of interpretation of tongues, sometimes the King will interpret the language of the Higher Places for them.
At least that’s what I think right now, any thoughts? It needs help.
[quote quote=108025]Oh, okay. That’s such a pretty name! Even if it’s a little confusing to the eye, haha.[/quote]
Thank you! It’s prettier bit a little more confusing (eye wise) when the original alphabet is used, namely the letter thorne instead of ‘th’. XD
[quote quote=108025]Yeah, I would too. Mainly because always typing the full name would get repetitively tiresome, lol.[/quote]
It does. Really tiresome. But now my phone has it in the “suggestions” box. That box is really getting… unique. XD
[quote quote=108025]Yum. 😋 An excellent choice![/quote]
Mmmm. What do you choose? 😉
You have listened to fears, child. Come, let me breathe on you... Are you brave again? -Aslan
- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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Yeah, I would like him to live longer, but I think it’s an important plot point, character struggle, and place to relate to the reader. He is a protagonist, though, so… I don’t know. For a complete confession, (and funny fact) I actually made his character starting from his death and moving backward. It’s been an interesting way to develop a character, that’s for certain! As time passed, he has become more “alive”.
Oof.
Oh my, really? 😂 I’ve never heard of anyone developing a character like that, but hey, whatever works! XD
I started to read Les Misserables, but I got discouraged by Hugo’s bunny trails somewhere in the (fourth?) book ‘Cosette’. I know the storyline, though, and I understand how Jean Valjean would be a favorite character.
Haha, yeah, Hugo tends to go off on a lot of tangents. He was a historian, after all. I always just tell people that they can skip all the lectures except for the last three pages of the Waterloo one, because a super important part of the plot is revealed then. I just pushed through the tangents because I wanted to be able to say I had read the entire Les Mis unabridged, but when I reread it, I’ll skip them. I love Les Mis as much as I do because of the characters and the moving themes, not because of Hugo’s intellect, lol.
I haven’t really thought about this before. I like a lot of protagonists, and hurt or triumph with them, but to connect? If there’s a side character/protagonist I’ll usually be behind them all the way, if they’re dealing with some big problem or hurt. Definitely if they have quirks.
Same! I love the side characters with complex backstories. I’d have to say my favorite side character type EVER is that one character who puts on a hard exterior to hide pain/tenderness underneath. I can never get enough of that trope. Do you have a favorite trope?
Rilla of course, but also Una and Walter (Rilla of Ingelside).
*sobs* I LOVE Rilla of Ingleside! Which reminds me. I had forgotten that Rilla is the only other protag I ever really connected with, aside from Valjean. But Walter is even awesomer. *cries just thinking about him* RoI was the first book I ever cried over because of his death. And I am a Walter x Una shipper all. The. Way. I’m still so disappointed they didn’t get to get together!
Anyway, I think I mostly connect with the protagonist, then with a side character, and come to think of it, I think I usually end up like you on doomed charries! They’re usually just so much deeper…
Yep. Doomed charries tend to be a lot cooler, probably so the author can have the fun of ripping out our heartstrings when they’re killed off!
However, I will admit that I don’t like Javert, or the Thenandres-whatever-their-name-is.
The Thenardiers? I agree with you there. They’re just pure evil.
But Javert? *gapes at you in utter shock* YOU DON’T LIKE JAVERT????
*prepares for a fight*
*calms down*
*takes deep breath*
Okay, but I can seriously write you a whole essay on all the reasons Javert is the best antagonist ever written. I’ll admit that at first (when I read the abridged, because I read that before the unabridged) I despised him. But then when I read the unabridged, I realized that I was completely wrong about him. I think I didn’t like him originally because the abridged cuts a lot of the important parts about his development and motivations, which is one of the reasons I tell people to forego the abridged.
What makes Javert such a compelling character is his complexity. It’s understandable that we wouldn’t like him at first, because he does everything in his power to hinder Valjean, and he’s so cold and unyielding that it’s difficult to sympathize with him. In reality though, Javert is not an evil man – in fact he is devout and dignified, but his problem is that he has a distorted view of God’s justice. And where did his problem come from? Hugo establishes early on that Javert himself was born in the galleys, and he joined the police later in life because he wanted to be an honorable part of society and help to restore righteousness to it. He becomes so harsh and even cruel because he’s ashamed of himself. Now that’s deep.
In contrast to the Thenardiers, who are the true villains, Javert’s actions aren’t driven by a desire to make Valjean suffer. He doesn’t have anything against Valjean personally. He wants to bring Valjean to justice because he believes it’s for both the convict’s own good and the good of society.
Javert’s character hits me so hard because he really did have the potential to be a good man. When Valjean saves his life and makes him question everything he’s ever believed about justice and mercy, Javert can’t handle it, and instead of taking the opportunity to change, he just ends it all.
Anyway. That got wayyyyy too long. Please pardon me, and thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in the name? and in the name have cast out devils? and in the name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
Wow, that’s a good verse to support what you’re saying! I think you’re making a lot of sense. Another Bible passage that comes to mind is in Acts 19 when the sons of the Jewish high priest attempt to cast out a demon using Jesus’ name, and the demon replies to them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I recognize, but who are you?” (19:15) If I understand it correctly, that indicates even demons can discern who is truly an authority to use Jesus’ name and who is not. Some pretty intense stuff.
I firmly believe that you know when you’re saved, but there are many that although they have not followed the scriptures, they fully think they are saved. There are many wayward christains who are not known of God. Our Lord has made the straight road of salvation very clear, but the enemy is hard at work to confuse people. One of the most effective ways is to teach people falsehoods to screen them from His light. False religions to faulty doctrines, there are a multitude of ways this is shown in our world. It’s like counterfeit money. Sometimes it looks so close to the really thing, but when you’ve handled true cash enough, the false is found greatly lacking. It isn’t real.
I think that all makes a lot of sense. I would venture to say that wayward Christians, like progressive Christians for instance, have just placed the title of Christian on themselves but are not truly so. I do agree that false doctrines are definitely tools used by Satan to confuse people – after all, Satan is the author of confusion. Good analogy!
And that was longer than I intended. I hope it gives some food for thought (and that it made sense, and I didn’t say explain anything wrong), and I’d be interested to hear what your Bible study principal and chaplain think about it. This is definitely a subject I’d like to study.
It definitely did me a lot to think about! And you’re really good at explaining. 🙂 Yeah, I’ll have to ask them at our next meeting. Or the one after, since we have a pretty lengthy topic scheduled for next time.
I haven’t added one. The King is powerful, and there are some slightly strange things that happen. (I mean, a real reserection without God isn’t humanly possible.)
Yeah, definitely! Cool!
So far I don’t want to use one, since I want to find a better word than “magic”. I love Narnia, and the use of magic as an allegory doesn’t bother me, but there is none in my books.
I definitely get that! I’m pretty careful about the books I read with magic in them. I love Lewis’ magic system because it’s clear he wrote it with a lot of wisdom, it’s a stunning allegory, and his fruits with the Narnia series are astounding (I’ve read some of the letters children sent him, and oh my heart). But with writers other than Lewis, I consider carefully whether the magic system is in the book for a good reason or not, and I don’t think I’ll ever write any magic personally. (Well, I don’t even write fantasy, so there’s that. XD)
Some things the people don’t understand, because those things are of the Higher Places. The Rebellion caused a division between the realms, and untill they are united, there are things that will remain mysteries. Those with a deeper understanding of the King and His wats, are sometimes a little, um, different. Just like Christains can be different.
Wow! That’s so good! I can tell you’ve put a lot of thought into your allegories! I’d definitely read your book.
At least that’s what I think right now, any thoughts? It needs help.
Hmm, I’d recommend taking a look at 1 Corinthians 12:7-11. Have you incorporated gifts of healing or wisdom? Maybe you could have some wise Gandalf teachers (but without the wizard-like abilities).
It’s prettier bit a little more confusing (eye wise) when the original alphabet is used, namely the letter thorne instead of ‘th’.
Cool, I didn’t know that!
It does. Really tiresome. But now my phone has it in the “suggestions” box. That box is really getting… unique. XD
Lol!
Mmmm. What do you choose? 😉
I’ll go with fettuccini alfredo!
@joy-caroline
Haha, ugh. I’ll have to finish it. It was actually somewhere in Waterloo that I bottomed out. After a few attempts to read on, I returned the book to the library.
[quote quote=108028]Same! I love the side characters with complex backstories. I’d have to say my favorite side character type EVER is that one character who puts on a hard exterior to hide pain/tenderness underneath. I can never get enough of that trope. Do you have a favorite trope?[/quote]
Yes! A complex backstory is like honey in sourdough. Technically not necessary, but important if you want to make good dinner rolls. 😉
As for a favorite trope? Well, one is the exact kind you mentioned. Sometimes they add humor when the character is only hiding a tender heart under a shell of bristles, but sometimes when the character is hiding a hurt or sorrow, the story takes on a heart gripping tendency that is just so…. Yeah, that’s a favorite, both ways.
I think another is the unexpectedly skilled ones with real inner conflicts that keep them down. Especially if they have weaknesses that turn out to be strengths when used right.
And of course, the sacrificial ones, who even though they struggle with natural selfishness, continually give of themselves till they don’t realize how much they have given.
One character that bugs me is the fantastically skilled young person who bests all the adults just by being a unique person with no need for mentorship. This kind tends to make the elders look ridiculous, in my opinion, and offers an inaccurate view of responsibility and maturity.
What’s one of your character pet peeves?
[quote quote=108028]*sobs* I LOVE Rilla of Ingleside! Which reminds me. I had forgotten that Rilla is the only other protag I ever really connected with, aside from Valjean. But Walter is even awesomer. *cries just thinking about him* RoI was the first book I ever cried over because of his death. And I am a Walter x Una shipper all. The. Way. I’m still so disappointed they didn’t get to get together![/quote]
Oh, RoI is my absolute favorite of the Anne series. Personally, I like Rilla better than Anne, and Walter is such a courageous person. He an Una should have gotten married. Una was always my favorite of the manse kids. Poor Una. She deserved better! 😉
[quote quote=108028]Yep. Doomed charries tend to be a lot cooler, probably so the author can have the fun of ripping out our heartstrings when they’re killed off![/quote]
It’s all a ploy, an attack upon our complacency.
[quote quote=108028]What makes Javert such a compelling character is his complexity. It’s understandable that we wouldn’t like him at first, because he does everything in his power to hinder Valjean, and he’s so cold and unyielding that it’s difficult to sympathize with him. In reality though, Javert is not an evil man – in fact he is devout and dignified, but his problem is that he has a distorted view of God’s justice. And where did his problem come from? Hugo establishes early on that Javert himself was born in the galleys, and he joined the police later in life because he wanted to be an honorable part of society and help to restore righteousness to it. He becomes so harsh and even cruel because he’s ashamed of himself. Now that’s deep.[/quote]
Yeah, I can see that. I didn’t get far enough to be other than disgusted by him. That is complicated.
[quote quote=108028]of society. Javert’s character hits me so hard because he really did have the potential to be a good man. When Valjean saves his life and makes him question everything he’s ever believed about justice and mercy, Javert can’t handle it, and instead of taking the opportunity to change, he just ends it all.[/quote]
Oof, that’s hard. It reminds me of one of the things that disturbs me in the story of Samson. He was given so much potential, yet it was squandered away for too much of his life.
Great defense and explanation! (The admission was under priced 😉 )
[quote quote=108028]Wow, that’s a good verse to support what you’re saying! I think you’re making a lot of sense. Another Bible passage that comes to mind is in Acts 19 when the sons of the Jewish high priest attempt to cast out a demon using Jesus’ name, and the demon replies to them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I recognize, but who are you?” (19:15) If I understand it correctly, that indicates even demons can discern who is truly an authority to use Jesus’ name and who is not. Some pretty intense stuff.[/quote]
Yes, I would agree with you. God’s name is not a tool to be manipulated by whomever wills. It is interesting then, that the former verse mentions the use of His name. It’s like what one of my favorite authors for theology said: “The Bible is it’s own best commentary”. There seems to be a warning here not to be content at one level of depth but to seek His face. There’s probably a lot more too (and that might not actually connect). The Bible is just so rich!
[quote quote=108028]I think that all makes a lot of sense. I would venture to say that wayward Christians, like progressive Christians for instance, have just placed the title of Christian on themselves but are not truly so. I do agree that false doctrines are definitely tools used by Satan to confuse people – after all, Satan is the author of confusion. Good analogy![/quote]
Yay! I’m glad that made sense. I completely agree about the word “Christain”. It is often used too lightly till now when it aught to be the biggest complement, it’s too vague. I hesitated to use it for that reason, but obviously went ahead. 😉
That’s a good point. Confusion is to be expected from that quarter.
[quote quote=108028]It definitely did me a lot to think about! And you’re really good at explaining. 🙂 Yeah, I’ll have to ask them at our next meeting. Or the one after, since we have a pretty lengthy topic scheduled for next time.[/quote]
Good! It’s given me a lot to consider too. And thank you! (I try, and I’ve heard some sermons on similar topics. 😉 ) Hmm, yeah, sometimes time can get rather close.
[quote quote=108028]I definitely get that! I’m pretty careful about the books I read with magic in them. I love Lewis’ magic system because it’s clear he wrote it with a lot of wisdom, it’s a stunning allegory, and his fruits with the Narnia series are astounding (I’ve read some of the letters children sent him, and oh my heart). But with writers other than Lewis, I consider carefully whether the magic system is in the book for a good reason or not, and I don’t think I’ll ever write any magic personally. (Well, I don’t even write fantasy, so there’s that. XD)[/quote]
Absolutely. I’m the same way. Lewis’ use of magic was wisely done, and God has used Narnia to bless so many. (Those letters would be, for lack of a better word, awesome.) Magic is not often so used, and even then, it’s not always really a good thing. I don’t plan to ever use it. (Your genre might have a little influence in that matter. 😉 )
[quote quote=108028]Wow! That’s so good! I can tell you’ve put a lot of thought into your allegories! I’d definitely read your book.[/quote]
Thank you so much! That’s a huge encouragement, you made me tear up. Honestly, I’ve been considering giving up on this series.
[quote quote=108028]Hmm, I’d recommend taking a look at 1 Corinthians 12:7-11. Have you incorporated gifts of healing or wisdom? Maybe you could have some wise Gandalf teachers (but without the wizard-like abilities).[/quote]
Hmm, thanks. That was the exact passage I was trying to work off of (but forgot the reference, so I definitely needed that.). I haven’t thought about healing or wisdom in detail.
If all spiritual gifts are from God, then the King would bestow them on his people. As for healing, God can heal through anyone with faith. So:
Because injury is a result of the Rebellion, the King has power to undo it. One option is that the King gives some type of healing water/ointment. Another is that the same power given to them from the King, His Life, blesses the healer’s work.
Wisdom. A deeper understanding of the Higher Places, and discernment for that around them. Having a wise person/teacher would definitely be a good idea.
Some will be able to tell from the start of someone/something is from _____. (Discerning of spirits)
There would be times that the characters look back and say “the King was there, he was guiding us”.
Concerning the King’s presence: the people never see his face if that much, and only those who seek Him at all. (I think armor?), and my descriptions will include more of what He brings, since we feel Him instead of see Him. I’ll tailor my words accordingly. Does this sound good?
Anyway, that’s a bunch of brainstorming. Anything sound right or otherwise? Suggestions? Thoughts?
[quote quote=108028]I’ll go with fettuccini alfredo![/quote]
Mmmm. That’s a good one.
You have listened to fears, child. Come, let me breathe on you... Are you brave again? -Aslan
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