The Chat Chat

[whaley]

@rae

Actually, that’s explained better than i could have XD.

Lol, maybe I should be a thought interpreter when I grow up. If that’s a thing.

I can see both sides of the issue, but I feel neutral for lack of data. If anyone be willing, I’d be glad to slip into a character cloak and debate either side.

Sure, I would love to talk about it! This topic hasn’t been addressed often on the writing communities I’ve joined.

I was pressured into adding a Gospel storyline into a project and it didn’t help at all, because it wasn’t the point of the story. It was too random. If someone is going to learn the Gospel story, shouldn’t they read the Gospel? No other story can tell it better.

Meanwhile, there are timeless writers who express observations of the world around them. They might talk about philosophy or human nature, or the simple truth of the beauty of childhood. God made humans to emote and have unique experiences. And these writers, while potentially Christian, didn’t need to explicitly say anything about God. What about Mark Twain? Ernest Hemingway? Herman Melville? Jane Austen? Charles Dickens? Bloomin’ Shakespeare?? They expressed these ideas: The honest Western spirit contrasting itself in nature vs. industrialization, Man’s need to dominate nature (that’s Hemingway and Melville), one’s relationship values as a result of personal values and how this effects society, the need for kindness, and the complexity of human desires.

These are all classics. People can observe truths even if they don’t connect them to God through writing.

I understand the divide though.. and I can understand taking the other side in this discussion. I feel weird taking any kind of opposite side, tbh.

“Everything is a mountain”

[whaley]

I would love to hear anyone’s thoughts, not just Rae’s. I’m still trying to put my opinions together so they may change.

“Everything is a mountain”

[whaley]

@freed_and_redeemed

I love this😭😭 so well put and so true.

Me too!! Someone in our church was diagnosed with cancer a while back, and that was a hard week for everyone. You could feel the underlying exhaustion, but I think I was greeted ten times more by different members. People were just thankful for the support they still had. That hardship, among others, was why I still feel a bond with those church families. Difficult things happen and we come out of them differently. Sometimes weaker. Sometimes stronger.

• This reply was modified 3 months ago by whaley.

“Everything is a mountain”

[freedom]

@whalekeeper

Yes, so true! What we go through can make or break us. It really depends on how we deal with the hard things happening around us and to us, and how much we rely on God vs ourselves.

and I love what you said in response to @rae

I think there’s a place for stories that present the Gospel, but also stories that may not necessarily present the Gospel. God calls us to all write different things, and honestly? I think that’s what’s most beautiful about these Christian writing communities and what each of us write.

#BeardedSteveRogersIsSuperior

[freedom]

And thinking about how I used to say/think every story had to explicitly state God…I’m so glad that has changed, because it has made the Christian writing world even more beautiful than it already was.

#BeardedSteveRogersIsSuperior

[freedom]

and AHEM @whalekeeper

How are Marcel and Seb and all of the babies?? 🥺 I have to know

I honestly need a writing/world/character update from all of y’all XD I’ve been so absent, and I need the updates. 😂 idk who to tag, but y’all know who you are👀

#BeardedSteveRogersIsSuperior

[freedom]

and just life updates too if y’all want!!

(I may be late responding, but I promise I’ll respond at some point😅)

#BeardedSteveRogersIsSuperior

[freedom]

@whalekeeper

Exactly! 🤪 Thx for responding to my little ramble 😚

You’re so welcome 💖🥰💖

Oof, characters can get annoying. I still have some from when I was a Teeny-Weeny Whaley, which is a pretty good record of remembering concepts, but nothing can stay on your mind consistently without stretching its stay at times.

I love them, but they can drive me crazy just a ‘lil bit 😂😂

Do whatever feels fresh! Even if that’s a fanfic. And it’s not like you aren’t making progress too. You just got a book published, for heaven’s sake, girl.

I know, I know🫣XD I’m just used to writing a lot🤪😅 But it’s been nice taking a break too, and I’ve been working on making video/music edits (Marvel, and it’s sooo much fun🤩). And honestly now that I’m taking one…I needed a break from writing, desperately💀😂

#BeardedSteveRogersIsSuperior

[MineralizedWritings]

@whalekeeper

Of course! By the way, I didn’t mean to sound like I disagree with anything you said. When I said you touched nerves, I meant those thoughts felt very applicable to second-hand pain I have… kind have gone through? Through empathy? Your experience is ten times more direct than mine 😅 I’m thankful to hear your perspective.

*gasps with a sigh of relief*

😫

girl I thought you seriously dissagreed what I said. I’m not used to you responding to discussions with such short answers and I’m used to ‘touching a nerve’ meaning like…

If you told me you hated Bucky, I would say you ‘touched a nerve’.

XD

I’ve been stressing about it sm today LOL

ok, ok. Well I’m very glad to be of help. Sometimes, people don’t like the argument of meds for mental health. I was once at a church that said depression is just selfishness, and I know some people try to keep their kids off meds no matter how much they need them. Some people just think it’s wrong, so when I share my opinion, I don’t know whether or not I’ll upset people.

"And so I left this world just as I had entered it. Confused."

[MineralizedWritings]

@whalekeeper @freed_and_redeemed

I love this😭😭 so well put and so true.

That’s part of the reason why I write such deeper, even darker stories too. I think it’s something that needs to be addressed more. Cheers to you, girlie💖

Awww thank you guys 😭😭💗

"And so I left this world just as I had entered it. Confused."

[RAE]

@whalekeeper

So, as I said, I’m just debating the opposite side from you, so I most likely do not believe what I’m saying.  In fact, I’m personally more inclined to agree with your side.

Oh, also, I’m gonna ask someone to stop us if we get too heated. I have a tendency to do this when I really get the ball rolling. @ellette-giselle If Whaley agrees, would you mind?

Okay, let us begin.

 

I was pressured into adding a Gospel storyline into a project and it didn’t help at all, because it wasn’t the point of the story. It was too random. If someone is going to learn the Gospel story, shouldn’t they read the Gospel? No other story can tell it better.

I agree that sometimes a gospel storyline can feel forced when added randomly into a plot, but it just has to be done right. And shouldn’t it be the main topic anyways? Jesus should have center stage in our lives, so shouldn’t He have center-stage in our writings as well? And while I agree that the best way to read the Gospel is in the Bible, that doesn’t mean you can’t include it in your stories. Just point back to the Bible, that’s what we should be doing all the time anyways.

Meanwhile, there are timeless writers who express observations of the world around them. They might talk about philosophy or human nature, or the simple truth of the beauty of childhood. God made humans to emote and have unique experiences. And these writers, while potentially Christian, didn’t need to explicitly say anything about God. What about Mark Twain? Ernest Hemingway? Herman Melville? Jane Austen? Charles Dickens? Bloomin’ Shakespeare?? They expressed these ideas: The honest Western spirit contrasting itself in nature vs. industrialization, Man’s need to dominate nature (that’s Hemingway and Melville), one’s relationship values as a result of personal values and how this effects society, the need for kindness, and the complexity of human desires.

But can’t you also have these alongside the Gospel? Like comparing the happiness the world experiences to the happiness of a Christian through Christ? While it may not be the Gospel itself, if you point back to Christ and the Bible, isn’t it similar?

As Christians, we are candles lit by the One Great Flame and set in the dark void of the world, to point unlit candlesticks to the One Flame. As lights, as beacons, we must always shine, and strive to make our flames brighter. Writing is a way we keep our lights shining brightly, telling the world we are Christians, we are followers of Christ, we are His children. Writing is a way we point to the cross and Jesus, and to His resurrection of the third day, in accordance with the scriptures. We were born for this.

"You need French Toast."
#AnduthForever (hopefully 💕)

[MineralizedWritings]

@rae @whalekeeper @freed_and_redeemed @anyone else in the discussion

Mind if I add my two cents about God in stories?

Writing God into a story is really really hard, and it’s not something I would want to mess up. It can go well, or it can go badly. A lot of you here are familiar with the wingfeather saga, which was written by a Christian, but I think has trouble portraying God like ours. The ‘maker’ in this book seems distant and confusing, because they don’t have a bible to read like us (Which adding would have created a whole other level of worldbuilding confusion). If it were set in our world, maybe it would have worked, but it’s fantasy.

People can tell you are a Christian not just by you sharing the Gospel with them, but by living differently. I think our books can be that same kind of different. Most of the character traits that my characters work towards having in their arcs are the fruits of the spirit, it’s a good way to bring what we believe into a book. Something that is a big part of my book is the wonder of experiencing the world. The evidence of our creator is everywhere, you just have to look around. Because my characters spend most of their life underground, they haven’t seen it all. My Mc Tauren wants to live on the outside because after seeing it once, he realizes it was made for us. God in my story is more implied, and instead of having a arc of each of my characters becoming christains, I have them work towards a christain world view. I think there is definitely a possibility for me to have a book that focuses on christianity more in the future, however I still feel like what I’m doing is good, even without a direct mention of the Gospel. I might have my testimony (and how it relates to my writing) in the back cover of my book, because to me that’s where it fits with that writing project. God has provided me with writing, and I feel the need to tell people about that story. I don’t think I need to combine that story with the one I’m writing though. Hopefully that makes sense lol.

"And so I left this world just as I had entered it. Confused."

[RAE]

@mineralizedwritings

That makes sense.

I honestly kinda exist in a grey area in a way. For Guardian Angels, Nahim is already the Wondian equivalent of a Christian, but after the tragedies that struck his family and home, he’s turned his back. I don’t believe you can loose your salvation. I’m not an extreme Calvinist, but I do have calvinistic beliefs in that if God decided you are one of His Elect, you can’t just suddenly not be one of His Elect, and He never leaves one of His own behind.

Most of my talking about God scenes are similar to this:

Nahim sighed. He lay awake in the pale light of the barracks. Staring up at the bottom of the bunk above him. It wasn’t that the snoring kept him awake, he could zone out that noise, it was his own thoughts.

Mandin tossed in his sleep and then stirred. Sitting up, Mandin glanced across to Nahim.

“Eyes still burning? It’s been three days now!” Mandin whispered.

Nahim shook his head before turning to face Mandin. “Just thinking.”

“About…”

“That trainee, Evrest, and Ehyeh, I guess.”

“Do you want to talk about it?”

“A little, I guess.” Nahim sighed before sitting up and continuing. “When I found Evrest, he praised Ehyeh. He reminded me of how I used to be, before…all that happened. I’m just kinda wondering where it all went.”

Mandin raised an eyebrow. “What do you mean?”

“I grew up believing in the goodness of Ehyeh, believing everything worked out according to His plan, His purpose. But then Laxan happened, and all I had believed, all I had been taught, just kind of slipped away. Maybe a part of me still believes that, still believes like I used to. Still has faith. But wherever that part is, it’s buried pretty deep. Half of me wants to find, and the other half wants to let it lie, and I’m not really sure what to do. Am I even one of Ehyeh’s Children anymore?”

“I’d say you are.”

Nahim looked up, seeing Zach’s bright blue eyes upon him in the dim light.

“Sorry, I should have made myself known.”

Nahim shrugged. “You probably would have found out my feelings towards Ehyeh eventually anyway, if you haven’t noticed already.”

Mandin tilted his head to his left, looking at Zach inquisitively. “What were you saying before?”

“I’d say Nahim still is one of Ehyeh’s Children, purely because he still is interested. If you were completely devoid of Him, you would have no will to even look for the answers to your questions. You’d just throw up your hands and say ‘The merciful God I once thought I knew is just cruel and doesn’t love me, end of story!’ And never return for answers.”

“Though it can be debated whether Ehyeh does love me or not.”

Zach smiled at Nahim. “Really? At the beginning of time, the original Father and Mother rebelled against Him, even though they saw His perfect world, and even saw a glimpse of His unimaginable glory. They even walked with Him! They walked with the Creator of the Universe! The All Powerful! And yet they rebelled and broke the perfect World, broke the Universe. Even though He could, Ehyeh didn’t just destroy the Universe he had created and make a new one with beings that wouldn’t rebel. He loved us, His creations. Instead, He made a perfect plan to save us from the price of our actions. Nahim, if Ehyeh didn’t love you, you wouldn’t exist. He knew before He created our world that you’d come along one day, and turn your back on Him. He knew we’d all turn our backs on Him! And yet He allowed us to be born. Because He loves us.”

Nahim exhaled, before slowly nodding. “Okay.”

“Nahim, just remember two things whenever you feel like things will never get better. For one, Ehyeh never leaves one of His own, and for two, you don’t have to struggle alone. Boomerangs are always there for each other, on a mission, or in the barracks.”

Nahim nodded again. “We…should get to sleep.”

Zach and Mandin agreed.

There is brief mention of the Gospel in an indirect way, but i don’t go into the particulars, because Nahim already knows all that so it wouldn’t make much sense.

You will also notice Zach appears to have a little different view than mine in that he didn’t adamantly say no one can lose their salvation. I’m just pointing that out so that you can know I’m not contradicting myself.

I’m kinda mix between all my stories of salvation stories and exploring pieces of human nature, like being selfless or sacrificial.

Plus…honestly it makes sense from my standpoint what I do with my writing considering God and I haven’t consistently talked for over two years and I probably haven’t read my Bible for two weeks. Just being honest.

Nahim’s come back story is basically a different version of mine, and the conclusion has not been reached yet.

 

So that’s where I personally stand with my writing.

"You need French Toast."
#AnduthForever (hopefully 💕)

[freedom]

@rae @whalekeeper @mineralizedwritings I love how we can all peacefully discuss our different opinions on this💖

Y’all are the best  : )

I agree with you, Min! Writing God in a story is difficult, and it makes it even harder depending on the genre you write. I don’t think all books have to have God be explicitly stated or mentioned or even implied, and I don’t think all Christian fiction necessarily should either.

With historical fiction, I personally find writing about God easier in that genre, simply because it’s set in our world and I can base much of it off my own experiences and the experiences of others, but I can’t even begin to imagine how other genre authors portray it. As I’ve previously stated, I believe all Christian authors are called to write different things.

If your book shows God or implies God, that’s good.

But if it doesn’t and rather just includes Christian themes without being explicitly ‘Christian’, that’s ok too. 

 

I think we should be careful to not try to put all Christian authors/fiction in a box, just as you wouldn’t want to do that with any author! Every author is different, created in God’s image, beautiful and unique, and thus what we write is going to be different, and that makes it so much more beautiful.

There’s a place for Christian fiction and fiction written by Christians. (and there is a difference).

For me, I feel called to write Historical Fiction that presents the Gospel and God’s truth in a very obvious but not ‘preachy’ way, and when I’ve tried to write other things (besides fanfics, bc those are for fun XD) it just doesn’t feel right, but that’s just me.

 

We can portray our faith in various ways, and if you don’t think you’ve been called to write what one would deem Christian fiction, then don’t…and don’t feel pressured to do so. Do what God wants you to do and what you know you need to do, regardless of what others think.

#BeardedSteveRogersIsSuperior

[freedom]

Thinking about my opinions on this topic just a few months ago…y’all, I’m so glad God is helping me grow XD

#BeardedSteveRogersIsSuperior

[Author]

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