The Chat Chat

[whaley]

@freed_and_redeemed

Oof lol, I missed hard with the Riker ideas. 😂 So you’re sticking with the same internal ideas throughout all three books? Is there, like, a clear turning point at the end of the first book, so you know where to move forward? I’d guess you included some revelation/change with both guys, so you could start there. Then make a turning point in book 2. Then you’re set for book 3. 🤣🥲

Also, what happens in book 1? You’re going through proofreading rn I think, so if you can nail down the twists and turns in that book, that’s also a great gauge for what the rest of the series should look like.

Long story short, External conflict is not my forte. I much more prefer internal conflict😂

😂 Yeah, external is hard.

I get where you’re coming from, internal conflict/character growth is obviously the most enjoyable part. Personally, I’ve learned that internal stuff is at its peak when it is communicated with external actions and consequences👌 It’s like the saying, actions speak louder than words. Or show don’t tell. It’s just harder for us as writers to achieve.

Edmund from Chronicles of Narnia doesn’t just sit in a vacuum, feeling angry and estranged from his siblings, or work it all out in his mind. He makes a decision to put down his siblings, and goes through real work to improve himself throughout the series. Whenever he feels selfish, he commits a selfish action and receives a consequence. Whenever he’s unselfish, others respect him, and he becomes the very king he wanted to be in the first book – except honorably! (I love Edmund :])

Internal and external conflict are twin elements that need each other. Ideas (inner plot) can start a revolution (outer plot). A revolution without ideas is meaningless, and an idea without a revolution is dead.

Lol poetryyy. I don’t mean to preach, this is just a much needed ramble for me. Did it make sense tho? 😛

“Everything is a mountain”

[Ellette Giselle]

@keilah-h

Well, you’re supposed to feel bad for Jonathan. Poor kid. He’s got a rough time of it, but things may starting looking better….. (or worse!!!)

 

@whalekeeper

Yes, Edmond is AWESOME, but so are Peter and Caspian. (FROM THE BOOK, MIND YOU. not the movies.)

 

Haha, I find it so funny that you guys don’t do external conflict well. External is my forte! Internal is hard for me to make sound more real the a teenage girl hissy-fit. lol.

Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God

[freedom]

@ellette-giselle I’ve actually heard a lot of authors say internal is harder, and I don’t understand it 😂 External is sooooo much harder for me. It wasn’t as hard in the 1st book, but Hans was a huge contributor to that

 

@whalekeeper

lol, you’re good. Ik you don’t know my book as well, so you’re fine XD Def noted what you said about external conflict, and it made perfect sense

 

So you’re sticking with the same internal ideas throughout all three books?

Yes. Bc neither the 1st nor 2nd book resolve everything. Some things, but not everything

Is there, like, a clear turning point at the end of the first book, so you know where to move forward? I’d guess you included some revelation/change with both guys, so you could start there. Then make a turning point in book 2. Then you’re set for book 3

Kinda, maybe??? The first book kinda, *ahem*, ends in a kinda cliffhanger??

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

 

Riker flees into hiding, deciding he’s going to try to stay alive so he can reunite with his family, and Leon realizes the camp has been freed, he’s free, and he survived the war.

 

 

Also, what happens in book 1? You’re going through proofreading rn I think, so if you can nail down the twists and turns in that book, that’s also a great gauge for what the rest of the series should look like.

A lot of things 🫠😅😂 It’s over 330 pages long last I checked, so 😅 All 3 books are so different tho so this is just difficult😂

 

ty for helping as much as you can tho <3

✨ who the Son sets free is free indeed ✨

[Ellette Giselle]

 

@keilah-h @kyronthearcanin @rae @thearcaneaxiom @freed_and_redeemed @highscribeofaetherium @grcr  @savannah_grace2009 @jonas  @linus-smallprint @loopylin @whalekeeper @kyronthearcanin @esther-c @anyoneelseiforgot

 

btw, If anyone would be willing, I have a WIP for a 5th draft that I am trying to wrap up for publishing. I would love some feedback on the story-line, Character development, etc. (structural edits, grammar, spelling, etc, would always be welcome, but those are a PAIN to find so I’m not gonna ask anyone to take the time to do that. I can run all that by my editor if I need to.) But yeah, I basically want to know if the story is sound, the characters are 3D and not paper dolls, etc. This story moves at a slower pace, (more like books written in the olden-days,) and is not supposed to pack the punch an action book does. I’m aiming for a different feel. So yeah, anyhow, I have 3(?) sections out and will add more once I get feedback on the last one. If anyone is interested that would be really helpful. No pressure though.

here’s the WIP

 

WIP: Let There Be Light, Book 1 of The Flames of Hope Trilogy

 

Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God

[freedom]

@whalekeeper

I really do understand what you mean about external conflict though

Def the 1st book had the conflict with all of the war things, all of the antagonists, resistance, etc

The 2nd book has external conflict mostly involving tension between people, alcoholism (for Leon), fights, acted upon hatred, etc

Like how in the second book, Leon’s thirst to be numb, to bury his pain, leads to drinking, which leads to division with those he loves, which leads to more pain/anger, which leads to more alcohol, which leads to more tension, fights, division, etc.

 

Like, ok, my brain is working overtime now😂, what if in the 3rd book, Riker’s shame leads to him helping people a LOT in Germany (and maybe in the US?; he did this during the 2nd book in an attempt to make amends/earn atonement, but in the 3rd book he sees it more as doing something for the Lord (though is still fueled by his shame and regret and thus is possibly still secretly a way of ‘making amends)) and neglects to admit/acknowledge his own needs and his own pain? And burying what he’s going through is going to make him tense and especially closed off, just so no one knows what he’s going through and won’t ask questions, which will probably make him a little more…oh, idk, touchy? 😅

And Leon, with the return to Germany, is going to have to remember and sometimes even a little bit relive what he endured during the War as he helps those that have also suffered from war and are still reliving the horrors almost every single day, some almost entirely unable to cope. But I also see Leon, just like Riker, shoving that down so he can help others…so he doesn’t have to think about what he could remember…so he doesn’t have to be vulnerable and admit that he’s still hurting from loss, from tragedy, and hasn’t yet fully healed from the horrors of the Holocaust. It doesn’t lead to a thirst for alcohol, as he’s left that behind, but rather leads to him being more tense just like Riker and unwilling to let anyone too close.

 

Perhaps it leads to tension between Leon/Riker? Leon forgave Riker, they’re even fairly close friends now, but with both of them being on edge and remembering what they’ve both been through…👀

And then that would affect the work they’re doing in Germany, especially the work they’re doing with churches and other places where they have to work together…

 

ooh

 

I may have just stumbled upon an idea😏

✨ who the Son sets free is free indeed ✨

[freedom]

Maybe Leon and Riker (prob esp Leon) while in the USA have both been avoiding people, places, things, etc. that trigger their PTSD, but with the return to Germany it brings a lot of things back and they both have to work through those things that yeah, haven’t healed yet

But both of my Boys are stubborn and don’t like to admit where they’re hurting and where they still haven’t fully healed😅

✨ who the Son sets free is free indeed ✨

[freedom]

Because one thing I want to show, especially through Riker and definitely especially through Leon, is that when you become a Christian and accept Christ, accept God, accept everything that comes with being a Christian, that doesn’t mean you’re just going to miraculously be healed of everything you’ve been through

I know people that still have to live with the remains of trauma in their childhood even after coming to Christ

I know people that still deal with grief even after coming to Christ or even being Christians their whole lives

I know so many people that still struggle with so, so many things from their past that still hurt even after accepting Christ

 

I think it’s soooo important that we get rid of the idea that when you become a Christian, everything is going to be peachy keen from now on, because it really just…isn’t true. What is true is that once you become a Christian, you now know that no matter how dark it may be…now you know that you are never alone.

✨ who the Son sets free is free indeed ✨

[Ellette Giselle]

I have a new Character board for anyone who’s interested! This is Jim, my robber fella! (Who really, honestly, truly, honest-to-goodness, does NOT like Jonathan. At all. Never ever. Thought hasn’t even crossed his mind. So there.)

 

Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God

[Linus Smallprint]

@ellette-giselle

Oh! You’re reading the first chapter! Wow that was some time ago.

I was on vacation last week, and am catching up on posts where people tagged me.

Ah yeah, sorry about that. And yes, the reason Sara couldn’t hide was because Don had to stall the agents while Sara closed the hiding place. You see, they all three were supposed to escape together, but the agents moved to fast and they had to resort to a last move “Hail-Marry” play.

Ahh, okay.

If you scroll through I had a few more scenes with Jonathan in them if you want to take a look.

I will have to find those.

[Keilah H.]

@ellette-giselle ooh another board! Jim is really interesting!

Where'd I get ya this time? The liver? The kidney? I'm runnin' outta places to put holes in ya.

[Ellette Giselle]

@keilah-h

Yes he is! He’s a complicated character. I have another interaction between him and Jonathan if you would like to read it.

Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God

[Keilah H.]

@ellette-giselle Sure!!

Where'd I get ya this time? The liver? The kidney? I'm runnin' outta places to put holes in ya.

[Ellette Giselle]

@keilah-h

Ok, I don’t think I posted this one. Jonathan had a bad fall during one of their raids and hit his head on the cement.

When they got back to their hideout, Jonathan had a raging headache and his ears were ringing. He didn’t say anything about it, but he never could remember what he put on Viper’s table. Only that it was satisfactory.

As soon as he could, Jonathan snuck away to lick his wounds alone. Like a wild animal, he had learned to never show any weakness around the other men, or they would turn on him in an instant.

Jonathan sat down on his mattress and closed his eyes. He could feel a pounding in a his forehead, and it felt like someone was driving a boot into the back of his head and neck. He carefully touched the bloody place on the side of his head. Most of the blood was dry, and his fingers came away only slightly red.

“You sure you’re okay?”

Jonathan jumped and looked up to see Jim in the doorway. “Stop sneaking up on me!”

Jim leaned his shoulder against the doorpost. “You look a little white. You sure you’re good?”

“Go away,” snarled Jonathan.

“Why don’t you let me take a look at it.”

Jonathan let out a feral growled.

Jim stepped into the room and Jonathan snatched up a broken chunk of walling and threw it at him.

Jim ducked the missile easily. “Okay then. See you later.” He backed out of the room and Jonathan heard him going down the stairs. Part of him wished Jim had stayed, but the other part knew he had only won a position among the men after a long fight. He couldn’t risk losing it.

Jonathan closed his eyes and leaned his head against the wall, breathing slowly. After a moment, he carefully lay down. He was exhausted, and all he wanted to do was sleep away the pain. It’ll be gone soon… it’ll be fine tomorrow.

***

Everything was dark. Jonathan was aware that he was shaking, but he couldn’t stop it. He felt like he was tipping, and he tried to reach out a hand to stop his fall, but he couldn’t seem to lift it. He tried to cry out, but his voice wouldn’t work. He found himself sliding, and then he tumbled off the edge into darkness. In the darkness, his mother was there. His father was there. His brother was there.

Jonathan tried to get to them, but he couldn’t. Then, there were Agents. They were everywhere. They yelled and shot their guns, kicking in doors and braking things. Jonathan frantically tried to escape them. They were setting things on fire, he could feel the heat. He was sweating now, thrashing wildly as he tried to brake free. Then he was falling again.

On and on, Agents, fire, shots, death and blood. He couldn’t escape it. Then, somewhere in it all, Jonathan felt something cool against his face. Where it touched, the fire went out. “Come on Buddy, hang on,” came a gentle voice.

Then the fire was back, and with it came the Agents. Jonathan could feel them grabbing him. He was fighting and thrashing now, trying to get free. Please help me! He screamed, but his mouth was too dry and no sound came.

Then they had him again, and Jonathan fell deeper.

***

Jonathan was aware of stillness around him. Everything was quiet, and there was no more yelling and crashing. He didn’t feel the fire anymore. In fact, he was cold. Slowly, Jonathan opened his eyes. He blinked in the dim light and looked to it’s source. Someone had pried one of the boards off the window and sunlight trickled in.

Jonathan carefully turned his head. Jim was slumped against the wall, his chin on his chest and his eyes closed. Jonathan carefully pushed himself up on an elbow. Jim started and scrambled forward. “You’re awake!” He grabbed Jonathan and hugged him fiercely. Then he pushed Jonathan away and moved back. “Lay down Kid,” he snapped. “You little fool. You should have let me look at your stupid head. Blast you Kid!”

Jonathan smiled and lay down again. When Jim was raging like this it was usually to hide love, sorrow, or fear. After a moment, Jim cooled off and sat down on the edge of the mattress. “How are you feeling?”

“Better,” replied Jonathan. “My head doesn’t hurt much.” He put his hand up and felt the hard place where the wound was beginning to scar over.

“You sure put me though a lot, ungrateful Boy,” groused Jim. “I had to play nurse maid. I was running up and down, here and there, and had an awful fight with Viper to get some medicine for you. Dumb Kid, why’d you go and fall off the windowsill? You’re supposed to hold on when he hoists you up there. He can’t just stand there while you take your precious time to play around. I shoulda left you up here by yourself.”

“How long was I asleep?” asked Jonathan.

“You’ve been in and out of consciousness for five days now,” replied Jim.

“Five days!” cried Jonathan.

“Whatever you did when you fell off that window knocked a fever into you. You should be dead, you know. You would be if I hadn’t half killed myself looking after you. Wouldn’t of cared if you had died,” added Jim, defiantly. “I wouldn’t care if everyone in the hideout died. I wouldn’t care if I died. So there!”

“Why don’t you get some sleep,” suggested Jonathan.

“Look at you giving orders,” snarled back Jim. “I’m perfectly fine going five days with no sleep. I’m not a sissy who faints when they get their silly head bumped.”

Jonathan lay back and closed his eyes. “I’m thirsty. Can I have some water Jim?”

“Oh now I’m waiter Jim, am I? Go get the water yourself.” shot back Jim.

Jonathan heard him get up and storm down stairs. A few minutes later, the steps returned. Jim put an arm under Jonathan’s shoulders and helped him sit up and drink. “Thanks Jim,” managed Jonathan.

Jim muttered something incomprehensible.

Jonathan tried to push himself up, but his arms felt too flexible, as if he had no bone structure. “What on earth?”

“You think you’re going to just pop up after dancing on the brink of death for five days?” laughed Jim.

Jonathan fell back dejected. “How long have I got to lay here?”

“A while yet.”

Jonathan wrinkled his nose. “I want a bath. I am so sticky with sweat and blood.”

Jim laughed.

“I’m serious.”

“Well I’m not really sure where you’re going to find a bath. The faucet of the one up here doesn’t work.”

“I’d do it like normal,” retorted Jonathan.

“You mean carrying the buckets of water up the stairs? You can’t even sit up!” chuckled Jim.

Jonathan gave him a pleading look.

Jim scowled. “Not a chance.”

Jonathan closed his eyes and nodded. “Thanks for taking care of me.”

Jim huffed and stomped out of the room.

A little while later Jonathan woke to find Jim helping him sit up. “Come on your royal highness. Your bath is waiting,” he growled.

Jonathan grinned and struggled to his feet. Jim yanked Jonathan’s arm over his shoulders and helped support him. “I don’t know why I even bother,” he muttered.

Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God

[Ellette Giselle]

@keilah-h

Also, I know I posted this scene but I’ll do it again so that you don’t have to weed through all the posts to find it. ;D

 

“Ow!” howled Jonathan. “Stop it, Jim!”

Jim, kitchen scissors in hand, was attacking Jonathan’s messy hair. What with the blood, sweat, and two weeks lying in bed, it was frightful. Over the year, Jonathan had let it grow down almost to his shoulders, but now that it was a matted mess, Jim had decided it was time to take some action.

“The blasted things don’t cut!” growled Jim, giving Jonathan’s hair a savage wrench with the object in question.

“You’re ripping not cutting!” yelled Jonathan.

“Shut up,” snapped back Jim. He grabbed another handful of hair and began sawing back and forth and chomping the scissor blades.

Jonathan grabbed his head. “Stop! You’re giving me a headache!”

Jim smacked Jonathan’s hands with the scissors. “Out of my way, ungrateful Kid!”

Jonathan gave up and stuffed his hands into his pockets.

He gritted his teeth as Jim continued to hack away with his scissors. “Good grief, it’s all stuck together. Why don’t you keep it clean.”

“I couldn’t very well do that lying in bed with a busted head could I?” griped back Jonathan.

At last, Jim stopped cutting. Jonathan made to escape, but Jim grabbed his shoulder and slammed him back down in a sitting position on the floor. “Hold still. If I’m going to do this I’m going to do it right!” Jim marched off into the other room, leaving Jonathan sulking on the floor.

When Jim returned, Jonathan eyed him suspiciously. “What do you have?”

“I grabbed these last raid for the explicit purpose of getting you looking a little more decent,” said Jim, a tone of pride in his voice.

“You mean the raid you left me out of,” groused Jonathan.

“You could barely walk,” snapped back Jim. He displayed a woman’s hairbrush and a small shaving mirror. Jonathan sprang to his feet. “Absolutely not! Stay away from me! Get that thing out of here!” he yelled.

Jim came at him with a rush. Jonathan turned toward the stairs but he was still weak from his two weeks of being bedridden. He made it half way across the room before Jim tackled him. Jonathan fought and howled while Jim beat good-naturedly him with the hairbrush. “If you don’t stop all the racket, the men will come up and see whats going on. then they’ll all stand around while I fix you up,” he threatened.

Jonathan snapped his mouth shut and went still. Jim grinned triumphantly and pulled him into a sitting position. He propped up the mirror on the old box they used as a table. Then he grabbed his scissors and brush. Jonathan clenched his teeth as Jim attacked his hair with the brush. “I’m going to strangle you for this!”

“Only if you can catch me,” Jim cheerfully replied.

“You are taking way to much pleasure in tormenting me,” complained Jonathan.

“Then quit being so fun to torment,” retorted Jim.

When Jim finally stopped brushing, Jonathan’s hair was a smooth as silk and he was fuming. Jim used the scissors to even up the lose ends while Jonathan glared death at him in the mirror.

Jim looked at Jonathan’s refection thoughtfully. Then he brushed Jonathan’s wavy hair into a smooth side-part. Jonathan cried out in disgust and immediately thrashed his hair with his hands, making it stuck out in all directions. He grabbed Jim’s leg and yanked him off his feet before scrambling up and bolting for the door. Jim’s howling laughter followed him as he thundered down the rickety old stairs. “Just you wait until I get my hands on you!” Jonathan yelled.

“I’ll be waiting,” chuckled Jim. “Waiting with baited breath!”

Man is born for the fight, to be forged and molded into a sharper, finer, stronger image of God

[Keilah H.]

@ellette-giselle lol Jim acts a little like Crosshair

He pretends like he doesn’t care, but that’s kinda how you know he does.

He’s pretty cool.

Where'd I get ya this time? The liver? The kidney? I'm runnin' outta places to put holes in ya.

[Author]

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