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HEEEEY!!! Another topic, I know…I hate having to make new ones and getting bogged down buuuut you can’t really help it sometimes XD
ANYWAY!!! While I know not everyone here is writing fantasy, sci-fi, etc, I’m going to tag y’all and hope you can help me try and figure this out! I have an idea of what I’m thinking I’m going to do, because I think I’ve chalked it up to it kinda just depends on Opinion…
But here’s what I’m having trouble with (it’s kinda the same issue with the difference between Species/Races/Creatures, etc. when worldbuilding, but anyway)
When creating a magic system….when is it a Magic System….and when is it just an ability, a gifting, or a power? Or in your opinion, do those fall under the magic system of the world?
I’ve kinda figured out some of how I’m working MY world, but this is a curious topic! And there are still a few things I could use your opinions on.
I don’t think there are set rules and regulations to this but yea.
So let me give some overview of MY world, and how it is currently working (let’s see if I can explain what’s in my head. Maybe this’ll actually help me make sense of it XD)
So just like our world, everything is created by God. He created something from nothing, basically. That means everything that is there, comes from Him. (In my series He is called The Light, The Light One, or other names given to Him by society.)
However, when His creation fell, after being led astray by Eder (a Guardian, which are type and shadows of angels) sin entered the world, just like our world.
God didn’t create sin, but His creation did through the fall.
However, God created everything before sin entered, including any magic that was there.
But when Sin entered the picture, that’s what allowed the magic to be used for wickedness, thus creating “Dark Magic” or “Bad Magic” (none of that voodoo or heebie-jeebie- stuff XD. I’m saying black or dark magic as in it is wicked magic, used for bad things or by bad people.)
But the magic itself is not bad, but was created by God!
So I guess basically that’s my Magic System.
Obviously magic is a broad term, and most often it’s used to describe things that are Unknown to those around it.
However!!! I think I’ve decided that My Magic System doesn’t cover Abilities/Giftings, because while those are also given by God (everything is though so that point is moot) it’s NOT magic…
Just like in our world, being gifted with the gift of prophecy, we don’t call that Magic.
Just the same, a gift God has given someone in this world I’ve created us not magic. It is just that, a gift.
Some who do not know this may unknowingly call it magic, but that doesn’t matter.
Same with abilities that are PASSED DOWN THROUGH CERTAIN RACES/SPECIES/CREATURES!
Again, just like in our world, if an animal is poisonous, we don’t say it’s “Magical” (unless we are a child perhaps lol)
And so it is with someone in this world whose entire race, being, etc, was CREATED, with this ability. Just like bees were created with stingers. It’s just as much a part of them as their nose or mouths.
Or a faeries wings.
It’s not magic. It’s a part of them, an ability they possess that other races may not. An attribute their race or species has that others do not.
So basically, it’s simply this: If something was created to be able to do or have the properties of something, that’s not magic-it’s just the way it was created.
However, if something was not created to do that, yet does it, has those properties, we’re given them, etc, it’s probably through magical origin or is of magical origin.
Does that make sense?
So this is where I wanted to seek your opinions on your own worlds/books you may have read, and how you view things, etc!
@whalekeeper @acancello @mineralizedwritings @calyhuge @freedomwriter76 @euodia-vision @esther-c @keilah-h @koshka#IfMarcelDiesIRiot
#ProtectMarcel
#ProtectSebGreat topic, I’m working on my magic system right now!
So are you implying in this system that any magic not natural to the species is being used for evil? Or can they use it for good sometimes, even though they weren’t, design-wise, equipped to do so?
Or would that be called a Gift, because it’s being used for the Light?
It’s making basic sense tho, good job with that, making sense is hard XD
(Also I see we both call our types\shadows of angels Guardians!!)
My magic in OEC is almost all unnatural, not-meant-to-happen. Two of the species – humans and Guardians – are trying to essentially become the best elements of each other, even though it’s dangerous and not meant to be. The dogservants get sucked in, and used as a resource, even though they are the most moral of the living and don’t want any of it.
As a result, you get mixed-up beings, who are almost all power-hungry and unnaturally formed.
Marcel is a wild card in all this, because he was the second ever, and he was pushed into it. Whether or not he should be considered good or evil magic-wise is still up for discussion.
The humans have their own abilities, which I’ve been trying to develop. These can be either good or evil depending on their source of power and their birthplace in the person’s life. It’s coming along nicely, and I’ll update once it’s a little tighter XD
And Sebastian Universe magic is coming along nicely! It’s all abilities. Nothing unnatural, per say. It’s definitely looser, but it depends on the characters finding their own resources and using them correctly, so it has a bit of structure too.
“Everything is a mountain”
I really like the way you designed your world! That definitely makes sense, sometimes it feels like magic can be opposite from a Christian worldview, but the way you explained it makes a lot of sense. If God created it in your world, of course there’s good magic–but like everything, humans will try and use it for their own advantage, lol.
"Be careful, for writing books is endless, and much study wears you out." Eccl. 12:12
*stealthily subscribes*
I’ll def be joining this convo later 😏Any noun can become a verb if you don't care enough.
@whalekeeper So magic is inherently good, it’s when it’s used in the wrong way that it becomes Dark or Evil magic, make sense?
Even though magic is used to transform or enhance, that doesn’t always mean it’s a bad thing, because it’s inherently created for good, it just depends on the use of it.
For instance: Magical objects, one I can think of is the medallion that allows Zolten, (and later Ridley) to control or manipulate the animals in Cirque. This is a source of bad magic, as this magical object was created to control and be used for bad things, but the things that was used to create it was not bad in itself. Does that make sense?
#IfMarcelDiesIRiot
#ProtectMarcel
#ProtectSebYou didn’t tag me, but I thought I’d bump in😅
So, if we are accepting the generally accepted definitions at least, this would formally be called a “magic system” even though in world there is a distinction. This happens a lot in fantasy actually. Tolkien for example did this, where the hobbits talked of elf magic, but to the elves, it’s just the way things are. That being said, looking into a bowl that shows you aspects of past and future is indeed an aspect of a magic system. Avatar the Last Airbender does this as well. There’s a clear cut “magic system” where individuals are able to manipulate the four main elements through physical artforms. In world however, the idea of calling this magical is scoffed at.
This all has to do with what we are defining as “magic”. There’s too many ways people look at this word. One may define it, as you mentioned, as simply what we cannot define or understand. This is a clear-cut definition that gets the idea across. However, imagine a tiny woodland elf walks into a human house. He sees light come from strange orbs from the ceiling, are they perhaps magical dragon eggs? He sees tiny waterfalls appear and disappear when you twist a simple nob, very magical indeed, to be able to command something so powerful as the thing that grants life.
This reminds me of the law “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic” from Arthur C Clark. So is the light and water magic? Depends on who you ask if this is the definition you subscribe to. When the term “magic system” was coined however, a very different definition is being used. Some magic systems are very rigorously understood and defined, that’s what makes them a “system”. So if you have a perfect understanding of these magic systems, do they lose the magic? In some ways yes, but the definition of magic here would be more like what laws (or absence of laws) are different from our world, whether they be understood or not.
Magic in the most real sense, I believe is the breaking of natural law. Things like Prophesy could easily be called magic if you subscribe to “what we don’t yet understand” or “different laws” if your an outside prospective, but the reality is Prophesy isn’t magic, because it is natural law, though it is of a higher law. I think this is more akin to what you were saying concerning your magic system.
So ultimately, whatever is going on in your world be it called magic, gifts, ect, it is all a magic system if you accept the definition the term magic system was originally and currently used to mean. However, in world, that definition can go completely void, and you can arrange things however you want to, and I think you made a very good arrangement. It focuses on a few key ideas of what magic is, and there’s a lot of potential themes you can get into with that. There is the way things were made, then there’s the way things just became, I like that. I do have a question though if you don’t mind: If the Light One created magic, and magic is what makes things behave as they weren’t originally created to behave, what about magic itself? If magic is part of creation, can magic make magic behave in ways it wasn’t created to behave like? This may be a silly question, and you can simply say magic can’t act on itself, but if it can, there could be a lot of very intriguing possibilities.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
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@godlyfantasy12 I’d probably just second what everyone else has said 😅😂
It sounds really cool tho! 💕
@godlyfantasy12 Oooh!
This’ll be fun.
Whenever I see it in other stories, powers/gifts/stuff you were born with and “magic” that you learned are usually separate. In my own stories, that’s kinda hard to distinguish.
Snake, for example, who you’ve met in one of the RPs, was born with what’s called “magic” in his story. He can manipulate virtually any object to do whatever he wants–but possibly at the expense of his own sanity if he does it wantonly. It’s not normal, but it is genetic. I guess you could call it a “gift” by your definition if you want.
Or, I haven’t done this yet, but I sometimes wonder whether could go the way Keeper of the Lost Cities and Wingfeather Saga do and call it all “the way the world works.” WFS did this quite well, but I think that was one element of the worldbuilding that KOTLC kinda fell flat on, since they were blatantly denying all of science and natural law with no explanation, while simultaneously claiming it’s not magic either.
@thearcaneaxiom Can the magic act on itself? I’ve seen instances where that does happen–for example, a character in one book I read did something that would protect him from the possibly dangerous effects of his power, but would also restrict him from using it in way that would affect other characters’ free will. Another character used her power to eliminate the magic from all current wielders because she was afraid of her own power and thought it would be better if there was no more of it for the rest of her life.In those two instances, the magic acts upon itself, and this system was what I modified my own system from, so I’d suppose the same thing would happen in my world, but no one there has tested it.
Where'd I get ya this time? The liver? The kidney? I'm runnin' outta places to put holes in ya.
Gotcha, I see 😉
I agree and am fully interested in literally everything you said XD And it is certainly interesting when magic acts on itself; I can’t say I’ve seen it too often, but I get what you’re going for.
@everyone
I had a kinda-idea once, branching off a book I once read – what if the magic was a being? Like a force which presence moves from here to there; a source of energy with opinions and personal preferences, even if they make literally no sense at all…
That’s it. I convinced myself – it’s going into my notebook, guys.
“Everything is a mountain”
I love the idea that “bad magic” is essentially rebellion against the Light, manipulating what was originally made to be a beautiful thing into a dark and twisted thing. It’s very good. If you’ve ever read Jack Zulu and the Waylander’s Key, you will have read one of my recent favorite books that addresses this in it’s themes. At first I was a little concerned when S. D. Smith brought up “magic” in our world (what you said yours wasn’t), but then I was blown away. He entwined Biblical principles into his magic system where there were enchanted swords and gates to other worlds, but when this beautiful magic was manipulated by the villain Rancast to rebel, ultimately, against God, then evil things like monsters and twisted power happened. (Then he connected it with when people try to find power outside God.)
So, it was rebellion, just like the Bible says.
Anyway, long rant, but I’ve been wanting to rant on that for a while. I actually have another couple pages of mental notes, but that’s probably enough. (Hopefully it made sense.)
I also love the gifts. It’s like in WFS when the world itself is wonderful. Why should it go by the same laws ours does? That’s just boring!
I will confess though, it does bug me to use the term “magic”. I prefer the miracles to be acknowledged as such. However, I don’t mind when it’s like WFS or Narnia, or even LotR (books). Yours sounds good. It might have to join the list. XD
You have listened to fears, child. Come, let me breathe on you... Are you brave again? -Aslan
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