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No typos, victory! Seriously, I stopped studying spelling at seven and have only been improving by seeing the corrections on spell check a million times in a row.
Does God permit unrighteous people to do what righteous people cannot, so that His will may be fulfilled? Well, it would appear so. That’s all I have to say.
Thanks for the great discussion.
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Haha, so in other words, ‘I’m starting to grow a tad bit weary of wrangling over this topic and would appreciate it if someone would start a new one’. I feel for you, believe me.
But allow me to clarify one thing: my question was not does God use such people, since duh, obviously He does, but is it somehow okay (morally right) for them to lie because they are unrighteous, and have already dabbled in wickedness?
And yes, whoever invented spell-check was a genius, and will have my undying gratitude forever, which is a long time, you know. 🙂I don’t think something which is a sin…lying, in this case (setting aside, for the moment, different views about lying/spying) is somehow right because it is an unbeliever/unrighteous person performing the action. But it is true their punishment might not be as great as someone who knows it is wrong and does it anyway. In Luke 12:47-48, Jesus says ‘And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.’Also, thanks everyone for making this discussion possible…and carrying most of the weight of it. 😉 I have a feeling some of these arguments will appear in one of my books someday. 🙂
INTJ - Inhumane. No-feelings. Terrible. Judgment and doom on everyone.
Hey, I enjoyed it immensely! Thanks for starting this topic, Hope. I love discussion. (I’m sure you couldn’t tell). 😉
Was gonna answer but then realized the answer was already given. Kudos to the ya’ll
I blog on story and spiritual things at mkami.weebly.com
@Daeus flipping through old topics and I just thought I’d drop you a line and let you know your argument makes more sense than mine looking back. I agree. 🙂 Duty is ours, consequence is God’s, and better to follow what the Bible commands than what it possibly does not condemn. ‘Preciate you being patient and gracious through the intricacies of this discussion. 😀
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Okay, I know I’m late in this discussion. I read it a while ago and didn’t have anything to say. But I was thinking last night and came up with something else. Now, I’m not saying I agree with what I’m about to say, I’m just throwing it out there.
Does the Bible ever say not to lie– ever?
The commandment that we all associate with “Do not lie” actually says “Do not bear false testimony against your neighbor.” I think that word against is key. In other words, do not lie with malicious intent.
Other passages, like Colossians 3:9, which says, “Do not lie to each other,” could also be interpreted as “do not lie– ever,” but what if that passage simply means, “Do not lie to other believers. You have no cause to lie within the church,” since Paul was writing specifically to a church? And really, why would we lie to other believers?
And the passages in Proverbs and other places that say, “The Lord hates lying lips” or “the Lord hates a lying tongue”– do they mean that the Lord hates a tongue that told a lie or that the Lord hates the tongue that tells lies on a regular basis? What constitutes “lying lips?” I mean, you can’t really call yourself a pianist if you’ve only touched a piano twice. Can you say you have “lying lips” if you’ve only lied once or twice to save someone else?
I don’t know if any of these verses apply to lying in war. Maybe they do– I don’t know. I’d love to hear what you all think.
@daeus @kate-flournoy @hope-annYA Fantasy Writer
Obsessive Character Namer
Find me at hisinstrumentblog.wordpress.comHmm, yes. Lying is certainly a bigger subject than is just covered in one verse.
If you’ve never used this site, you need to check it out. https://www.openbible.info/topics/lying
I think some of the best references in this list are Psalm 101:7, Proverbs 12:19, John 8:44, Proverbs 13:5, Psalm 34:13
Also, a note on the verse about the lord hating the lying tounge. It seems very doubtful that this would refer to only tongues continually lying because 1. Where would you draw the line between a little lying and too much 2. all the other sins in this list are things that we would consider being wrong all the time.
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@His-Instrument great points.
First off, I don’t think the pianist analogy works in this situation. If you commit adultery once, you are still an adulterer. If you murder once, you are still a murderer. If you lie once, you are still a liar. You may not make it your profession, per se, but you are a liar in the sense that you have lied.
Secondly, the fact that lying is listed in with the seven abominations classes it in with all six others for me, and one could not make the argument that adultery is acceptable outside Christian circles, or that it’s fine for you to murder those who are not believers.And I think that covers it. Wow. Time was when I couldn’t have replied to an in-depth post with anything less than eight paragraphs. 😛 😉
@kate-flournoy and @daeus
Thanks for helping me figure that out. Your points make a lot of sense. Besides, I did a little more searching last night, and I found a verse in Leviticus that just flat-out says, “Do not lie. Do not deceive one another.” So that’s that.
I just really hope I’m never placed in a situation where lying seems like it would save someone’s life, because I think it would be really hard to have the faith not to. Although it worked out for Corrie ten Boom’s sister (has anyone read The Hiding Place? Great book).
And way to go, Kate, on your concise answer! I stand in awe.YA Fantasy Writer
Obsessive Character Namer
Find me at hisinstrumentblog.wordpress.com@his-instrument Yes I’ve read that book. And that’s what I thought of when I was reading through just now.
And just to add my two bits worth, not sure if it’s on topic. But you can never lie just once.
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