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So recently I have thinking about something, and want to see what you all think about this or if I am too finicky of a reader. So I read this book set in the real world but in the book there is a second world/dimension that was created by the the villain. Through this second dimension, he can basically hack computers and control things with his mind. The hero of the book enters this parallel universe and has to stop the villain from hacking US security and blowing up the nation. In the universe there are different creatures/robots created by the villain to guard his fortress. At the climax of the book, the hero is trying to destroy the fortress, but has to get past the guards. Through the book, he has been told his “spirit” has power, but he doesn’t know what that means yet. All of a sudden, he figures out he can morph himself so he can look like the guards. Using this, he gets past them and saves the world. Now, onto what I have been thinking about. I felt like the author wasn’t quite fair. He got his reader all tense and worried about how the hero was going to do it, then all of sudden he can change into whatever he wants. We assumed the rules were the same as the real world because we weren’t told different. So from our standpoint, the author broke the rules in order for the hero to survive. As the reader, I almost felt cheated. So, if you understood any of that, what are your thoughts?
@jadamae Yes. You were cheated. I’m so sorry that happened to you. The problem isn’t so much that the victory was simple, but that the victory had nothing to do with the plot. I was actually just thinking about how the climax in pride and prejudice was actually incredibly simple. Elizabeth figures out that she has been mistreating Darcy and she apologizes. End of climax. That’s not a problem though because the climax was built upon the whole book. In the book you read, however, the climax has might just as well have happened in the first chapter. The rest of the book was a waste of time that brought the character nowhere. The only thing I can think of that would have made that book work with a climax like that at the end would be for the character to be incapable of using his power in the beginning because he wouldn’t. In that case, you’d have to have the whole rest of the book showing how he slowly changed his mind. There would have to be very strong reasons why he wouldn’t at first that he would have to come to grips with.
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No. That’s not fair. I totally agree with everything @Daeus said. You have my sincerest condolences and sympathies, @Jadamae.
The solution to the climax of every single book should exist from the very first page— and we need to have some sort of inkling of what it is from the very first page. It doesn’t have to be obvious. But it has to be there. Only once the huge obstruction(s) standing in the way have been cleared should it be fully revealed, but it has to exist from the beginning.What book was that? Tell me so I can avoid it. 😛
we need to have some sort of inkling of what it is from the very first page.
*Scratches head* @kate-flournoy Perhaps you’d either like to remove that statement or expound on it’s hidden brilliance.
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@Daeus good idea.
That is, it would be if I even remembered what I was thinking when I wrote that. I am currently operating on the mental capacity of a baked potato.
I believe, however, that I was referring somewhat to foreshadowing.
And for the rest, I simply meant that the beginning should set up the ending. I should have clarified that— I repent. In dust and ashes.
I think I phrased it that way because when I read, I can usually tell the direction a book is going from the first chapter. (If the book isn’t planning to cheat me 😛 ). Which is kind of annoying. But I suppose it’s the price all writers pay.
So I guess I wasn’t talking about a physical inkling. Like, a hint in so many words. But the ending has to flow logically from the beginning. Thus, it follows, that if you are a logical person (well versed in writerly tricks) and the story is properly constructed, you should be able to have some sort of (extremely subconscious, most of the time) inkling as to where it will end up.Does that make sense?
Oooh, yeah, that’s great @kate-flournoy.
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@Daeus and @Kate-Flournoy Thank you for your sympathy. 🙂
In all fairness, there was a little more to the climax, but it wouldn’t have been possible if it weren’t for his newfound capabilities. If either of you read it, you would probably realize it wasn’t terribly done, but it stuck out to me, and I wasn’t even really trying to evaluate the plot as I read. The book was the first one in the Mindwar Trilogy by Andrew Klavan.The solution to the climax of every single book should exist from the very first page— and we need to have some sort of inkling of what it is from the very first page.
I really like that. 🙂 I guess this sort of all turns into once again, how important it is that your theme and plot work together seamlessly. I don’t exactly know how I got that from this conversation, but I did. 🙂 Maybe because if you are writing a book about pride going before a fall, you know the climax would involve a fall, or a decision to not be prideful.
@Jadamae I’ve read those books. They’re not my favorite books, but I didn’t think they were too bad.
I didn’t mind him changing shape because it is in a different dimension, so different rules likely apply. And it’s not as if he does it with ease every time. He does have to fight at times, and sometimes the disguise slips because he’s not strong enough to hold it together. And, quite frankly, he’d not have got very far without some sort of disguise, though of course that is true of every hero and the reason for reading is to figure out how he gets through the danger even though it seems impossible.
It’s been awhile, and I think the shape shifting could have been mentioned early on, or at least hinted at better even if he isn’t able to do it until the climax. But as for the skill itself, I don’t have a problem with it.
INTJ - Inhumane. No-feelings. Terrible. Judgment and doom on everyone.
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@Hope I think you might have misunderstood me. I have no problem with him shape shifting. It is actually a cool facet of the Realm. The part that got me was that we didn’t know he could do that until he did, in the climax in the book. 🙂
@jadamae I honestly don’t know if I have much to say that hasn’t already been said but I’m gonna give this a go.
First of all::: yes. You have been cheated.
Second of all:::I personally think shape-shifting is a power which would be epic to have so I’m glad that you don’t have a problem with it. We’d have to have a talk.
Now that we’ve got that out of the way, here’s what I want to expand upon; @kate-flournoy said“The solution to the climax of every single book should exist from the very first page— and we need to have some sort of inkling of what it is from the very first page.”
While, I think that can be true. Totally. If Katniss just randomly picked up her archery abilities a week in to the Hunger Games there would have been nothing convinving or special about her talent.
However at the same time, I think that “first page” is kind of an exaggeration. I think that a solution to the climax can be unapparent until chapter 15 and still be convincing. There’s nothing wrong with a character not realizing he can shape shift til later in the book. This doesn’t mean it’s fair of the author to just say “Oh guess what I forgot” There has to be some sort of build up to him discovering his powers. But that doesn’t mean he has to discover his powers in Chapter 1 and then learn to control them by Chapter 7 in order for you to convincingly resolve your climax. Does that make sense?This may just be me nitpicking, but that just my two cents.
@Jadamae I see what you’re saying. It’s been a bit…I couldn’t remember when he discovered it the very first time.
INTJ - Inhumane. No-feelings. Terrible. Judgment and doom on everyone.
@Adry_Grace yes, you’re right. I totally agree. When I said first page, I meant it more figuratively than literally. 😉 First page as in the beginning— the first chunk of story we get.
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@Hope I do agree that they aren’t terrible. He did a great job of making you want to keep reading. They were hard to put down. 🙂
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