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I’ve read the first Crown and Covenant book, and here are my thoughts:
It was all right. It’s not the most polished book (I take it the ending was written the way it was to foreshadow Angus being the main character in the second book? I also did find some of the point of view changes wierd), but still, it was a fine story. I think my favorite characters were Sandy, Fiona, and Jamie. The writing style reminded me of your own. Are these books one of your inspirations?
As for the fighting, I’m still not convinced. But I liked the way the Christinas disagreed on the issue, showing it as something where there is some grey area in. I think all the different perspectives, from Ian to Ancient Grier to Sandy, helped Duncan better understand the issue for himself. This led him to learn to love his enemies. I was kind of hoping it would get more into the discussion than it did. While I don’t agree, I respect the position the characters took.
Anyway, I might go and check out the second next Sunday.
Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to see the stars.
Oh cool!
Really? The style makes you think of mine? That’s a great complement because I really look up to him.
Lol, yeah, it might not be super polished, but they are still historically accurate (a huge plus for me) and I love the author.
Yes, Angas is the next MC, and he also has to wrestle with this (the book being titled The King’s Arrow, and the question being, can he shoot at the enemy in the name of the King? i.e. God)
Ah yes, Jamie is one of my very favorites! i loved him. As for hoping it would get more into the discussion, I believe the author felt it best to spread the discussion over three books instead of quickly trying to deal with it in one, so like I said, they get more in depth as the books go. In fact, I was flipping through the last one the other day and spotted a place where two of the MCs were having a discussion about it. Plus, the author grows the characters in a really good and really fun way. I love watching their arcs continue through the books.
Please let me know what you think of the others. I would love to hear.
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
Yes, Angas is the next MC, and he also has to wrestle with this (the book being titled The King’s Arrow, and the question being, can he shoot at the enemy in the name of the King? i.e. God)
Please let me know what you think of the others. I would love to hear.
Okay. Will do!
Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to see the stars.
I’ve read King’s Arrow now!
I liked this one a lot more than the last one. Angus was a much more relatable and interesting character to me than Duncan. Like him, I am more divided and thoughtful, unlike Duncan’s more straightforward approach to things. Angus also had a lot more interests that came to play in the story (chess, archery, Pilgrim’s Progress), which made his character more unique and outstanding from others in the story. I also like his bird, Fletch. Angus might be my favourite character in the series so far.
I also found myself more engaged in this story. Possibly because the tension of the question ‘Is it right to fight?’ was higher. This was especially true of the scenes where Angus plays chess for his sister, and in the climax, where he shoots the soldiers. While I don’t agree, I appreciate that Doglas Bond is taking time to explore this question, and the characters are continually thrown into doubt about their conclusions on the matter. In fact, even though I take the opposite side, this is just how I feel; I’m never sure if my decision not to fight physically is the right one or not. It is a grey subject that the Bible isn’t clear on, and he treats it as such.
Oh, that moment when Angus realizes the soldier he didn’t shoot was the coperal that had saved him and his father, that was a good one with chilling implications. Definitely something to think on.
I’ve just started Book III. Not too far into it at the moment, but I will let you know when I am done.
Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to see the stars.
Ooo cool! Yes! Angus is my favorite character… though I also LOVE Jamie. Rebel’s Keep may be my favorite, (the third one). In fact, I think it is. But there are some pretty amazing scenes in King’s Aarow. Especially the ones you mentioned.
I almost feel like the series got better as it went, like Bond got to know the characters a bit more. I’m glad that you are enjoying these, and I can’t wait to hear what you think of the last one. YES! The scene with the officer is a great one.
Is Duncan married in King’s Arrow? I can’t remember. Anyways, I think I like him best at that stage more than as a boy. Anyhow, can’t wait for you to finish the last one!
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
I almost feel like the series got better as it went, like Bond got to know the characters a bit more.
Yes, it does feel like that.
Is Duncan married in King’s Arrow?
Yes. And he has an 8-year-old son. I think Rebel’s Keep takes place immediately after King’s Arrow.
Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to see the stars.
Okay yeah, I was pretty sure it came right after, but I wasn’t sure if there was a another time jump. Yeah, I like Duncan better at this stage, especially in contrast with Angus. They make a good team. XD
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
Okay, I have finished the series now.
I think the 3rd book was my least favourite. Part of this was due to the story was more of a flat arc instead of a positive arc, which is alright, I just prefer positive arcs. Also, with all the time jumps, the events of the story felt more separated as opposed to one continuous plot. (Yes, they were all connected, and in ways did build on each other, but it wasn’t as streamlined as I would have liked.)
The characters in here, being covenanters, followed a covenantal theology. I noticed more it in this book than in the previous ones. Come to think of it, there was not much talk of Duncan, Angus, and Malcom being saved. It feels more like they inherit their parents’ faith instead of coming to it on their own accord, and it is assumed that children in Christian families are saved. This was especially apparent to me in the baptism and death of Ian Law. Many of the arguments for why Christians should fight were based on this theology or logic. I’m not sure if you follow Covenantal theology or not, but I believe New Covenant Theology is what the bible teaches. So the arguments in this book for why we should fight didn’t really convince me. In some ways, I feel even more convinced that it isn’t right for Christians to fight, and especially kill.
I think another reason I didn’t like this book as much is that the characters in this series have now been convinced that there are times when they need to kill enemies. Due to this stronger conviction, the topic had less grey area in this book. It seemed that most scenes took the approach of ‘kill or be killed’ with the characters putting little thought and prayer into finding alternative ways to save other believers. Regardless of how I end up landing on the issue of whether or not Christians should fight, God wants us to first and foremost seek to witness to our enemies. I’m not saying this is always possible, but I wish at least that the characters had prayed for their enemies’ and nations’ salvation.
Now, with all that said, I am still not entirely convinced that God wants His children to be pacifists. This series did give me some things to think about. And while the arguments are based on different theologies or logic, they do raise some good points. (I was also discussing this with some others, and they gave me some other things to think about, like why did Jesus not condemn the Roman centurion for being part of the army? Or why does Paul use being a soldier as an example so often?)
Not that the series was entirely like that, such as the scene with Marely Peebles’ salvation, or even in the first book with Lindsy.
The final reason I don’t think I liked this book as much is that it was more grim. Though I do relise that it is just showing what things were like then, and it wouldn’t be the same without it. I did appreciate that it took some moments to lighten things up every once in a while, like when Malcom learns to ride horses.
Thank you for recommending these books to me. Despite not agreeing with their conclusion, I did enjoy reading them and seeing the characters develop. Angus is still my favourite. I like Malcom as well. The deaths in this book were sad. There were many scenes that were tense and thrilling and held me in, like Malcom and Angus in the tree. If you have any other book recommendations, even if they don’t have anything to do with this discussion, I would be happy to check them out!
Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to see the stars.
ACK! KP decided not to notify me.
Okay interesting! I may have to re-read those scenes you mentioned a little closer about children inheriting their parents faith, which I don’t believe.
I always liked the last one best because of Angus’ capture. (typical me) still that whole section had some of the BEST lines! Especially the “my end is sure” section. Literal chills. And I forgave him for not killing Angus because Angus was actually rescued in a reasonable way. Not by plot armor.
One thing that I do have to say about the fighting thing is this. In the old testament, God was commanding them to fight and actually drawing up their battle plans in many places, or fighting on his people’s behalf. Unless you believe that the God of the old testament is not the same God in the New, or that Jesus and God believe differently, I find it hard to just discredit all of that.
Anyways, that;s my two cents. You don’t even have to answer that if you don’t want. Just something to think on.
Hmm, more book recommendations! Do I ever! Well, there is a part two to the series you just read called Faith and Freedom about the revolutionary war. (it follows Malcolm’s Grandson, Ian M’Kethe.) So if you wanted to see a little more with these characters, that one’s fun. I remember it less than the others, so I can’t say for sure if it goes over the same issues, but I am inclined to say it does not. It also follows Gavin Crookshanks…. (who I won’t say much about because it’s a plot twist) and he’s a British soldier conscripted from Scotland. Gives a cool look at the War for Independence.
Also by Bond I would recommend The Resistance. It’s WWII and follows an atheist, a Christian, a catholic, and a communist and some others, who all get tangled up trying to survive together. Very interesting and fun to read.
If you want to branch out and try a new author, (if you trust me, lol) I would HIGHLY recommend The Heartmender, by Andy Andrews (I know, poor kid. What were his parents on when they named him? lol) Anyways, it is an AMAZING story and a true one. It starts when the author finds buried photos of Hitler, Nazi soldiers, uniform buttons, meddles, and some other things, in his back yard. And he lives in America. He journals his progress as he hunts down the answers to this mystery. Then, he stops the journal when he finds the answer, switches back in time and tells you what happened in story form, and then in the end finishes up the journal. It is SO GOOD! The cover is a little lame, so don’t let that throw you off. It is an AMAZING story of redemption. One of my very favorite books.
Another great one is Leepike Ridge by N.D.Wilson. (he does some fantasy as well, but this one is not fantasy) It follows a boy named Tom who’s father is dead, his mother is being pursued by a guy he hates, and then he gets swept down an underground river. It’s a mystery, it’s redemption, and it’s really good.
I have hundreds more, but I’ll leave you with those few. Unless none of them sound interesting and then I’ll give you some more.
Let me know what you pick and what you thought of it when you are done!
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
@ellette-giselle
No worries, I kind of suspected that Kingdom Pen didn’t let you know about this.I always liked the last one best because of Angus’ capture. (typical me) still that whole section had some of the BEST lines! Especially the “my end is sure” section. Literal chills. And I forgave him for not killing Angus because Angus was actually rescued in a reasonable way. Not by plot armor.
It helps as well that this was based on a real, historic event.
One thing that I do have to say about the fighting thing is this. In the old testament, God was commanding them to fight and actually drawing up their battle plans in many places, or fighting on his people’s behalf. Unless you believe that the God of the old testament is not the same God in the New, or that Jesus and God believe differently, I find it hard to just discredit all of that.
“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.” – Hebrews 8:13 (ESV) I am by no means saying otherwise. Neither can Jesus disagree with God the Father (John 14:9). But some differences between the Old and New Testaments are hard to ignore. For example, the Old Testament focuses on Israel, but the New Testament switches to the church. The question is what does this all mean and how does thi fit together?
Mind if I go into a quick Theological lecture/rant to explain my position?
From what I know, there are three major ways Christians can look at the differences between the Old and New Testaments. (I would say all three groups are Christians, but the view you land in can change the way you view Theology signifigantly.)
- Dipansasinolism
- Covanentalism
- New Covenantalism
The first, Dispensationalism, teaches that there are different “dispensations” in which God interacts with humans differently. This teaches that the church is completely separate from Israel, and some verses of the Bible only apply to Jews. (e.g. Jeremiah 29:11)
Because of verses like 2 Timothy 3:16 (All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, (ESV)), I don’t believe this is how God wants us to interpret scripture. All of it is for the believer, not just some, and we should not ignore portions of the Bible addressed to Israel.
Second, we have Covenentalism, which is what the characters in this the Crown and Covanent series believe. This view teaches that God makes one covenant with man, and reestablishes it with different generations. So the New Covenant is a reestablishment of the Mosaic Covenant, and the Mosaic Covenant is a reestablishment of the Abrahamic covenant, ect. So the Christian is called to follow the law as Israel did, with the exception of the ‘ceremonial’ law.
However, this doesn’t really make sense to me. I believe your friend who wrote the essay on whether Christians should be violent or not leans towards a branch of Covenentalism, and he pointed to Matthew 5:17-20 to support this. But this just left me confused. What does Jesus mean that we should keep and teach the ‘least of these commandments’? He seems to be implying that we should keep every single commandment here, but what about ‘Rise Peter, kill and eat’ (Acts 10:13) or what about Paul saying circumcision is nothing in 1 Corinthians 7:19? Wasn’t Moses almost killed in Exodus 4:24-26 because he didn’t circumcise his son?
The explanation of Cerimonial Law wasn’t making sense to me. It didn’t make sense when put with Matthew 5:17-20. Wanting to know the answers, I read a book called The Law of Christ by Charles Leiter, which teaches New Covenantalism.
New Covenantalism finds the middle ground between the other two. It teaches that the whole Bible is profitable to the believer, but the believer may find a deeper and more spiritual meaning in the texts. All prophesies, types, covenants, sacrifices, and laws are centred on Christ. For example, Abraham was promised a seed, a nation, a land, and a blessing. This was initially fulfilled in Isaac (seed), Israel (nation), Canaan (land), and Material Prosperity (blessing). It is ultimately fulfilled in Christ (seed Galatians 3:16), the Church (nation 1 Peter 2:9-10), the New Earth (land Hebrews 11:13-16), and Justification and it’s fruits (blessing Galatians 3:13-14). Covenants are separate and are all fulfilled in Christ. Israel was called to follow the law as we read it, but the law was never meant to save, and the true Jew is the one who trusts in God and his promises. (Romans 2:29).
This view seems to fit with what I see being taught in scripture. The Christian still follows the law and all of its commandments, even the least of these, like Leviticus 19:19, but he does so in a deeper, more spiritual way (See 2 Corinthians 6:14), and he does so from the heart. This is what Jesus is doing in the Sermon on the Mount: he is moving our focus from the physical to the spiritual, showing us the deeper meanings behind the commandments. He is not changing the Law or disagreeing with The Father, rather he is showing us the deeper meaning behind it that was always there. This is how Peter can eat unclean animals and how Paul can say circumcision is nothing!
Now we don’t know what the deeper meaning is behind every commandment in the Old Testament, and sometimes it is unclear how we are to follow it. Sometimes the spiritual meaning extends beyond the original commandment, as in the case of ‘Do not Murder’, sometimes it can be completely different, as in the case of avoiding eating unclean animals. It is only by the power of the Holy Spirit that we can come to find the deeper meanings, and God writes His law on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:31–33).
I believe, because of this, that we shouldn’t take something taught in the Old Testament and say that it ought to teach this and that, lest we miss the deeper meaning behind it. Rather, we should get our final interpretation of the Old Testament from the New. This is why I am hesitant to accept arguments for why Christians should fight based off of logic and the Old Testament.
Israel was a physical nation in a physical land. Following the law as they were given it only resulted in physical blessings, and breaking it resulted in physical curses (Deuteronomy 28). The wars they fought were physical ones, for their physical kingdom. But the true Jew, the ones who God has saved, both Jews and Greeks, are called to look to spiritual things. And as the New Covenant is established, I don’t see any call for the Christian to fight physical battles, only spiritual ones.
So this is why I am hesitant to believe it is all right for Christians to fight. Like I said, I’m not entirely convinced it is wrong, but the arguments the Crown and Covenant series gives don’t make sense to me.
…
I suppose that took more paragraphs than I thought it would. I guess that was more than my 2 cents (maybe more 2 loonies) for you to think on. Anyway, I highly recommend you read The Law of Christ, which will explain all of this in much more detail. And the main purpose of the book goes far beyond the discussion of how to interpret the law. It is one of the books that my Dad believes every Christian to read.
Thank you for your book recommendations. Our church Library has several of Bond’s books, so maybe I will go take a look through them on Sunday and see what I find. I know he has one on C. S. Lewis, maybe I will check that out. The Heartmeander sounds interesting. I might try our Leepike Ridge as well. I do enjoy redemption arcs.
As an aside. Do you have any theology book recommendations? I’m trying to read more of those books right now. I’m going through The Fruitful Life by Jerry Bridges with my friends right now. If you haven’t read any of his books, I highly recommend those, they are easy to read, convicting, and have helped me to see more of God. Redeeming Productivity is another one I suggest you should check out, especially if you are wondering how you can get more done with an addituted that is glorifying to God.
Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to see the stars.
lol. Two giant sized cents I guess. XD
No prob. Sometimes just writing things like this out in conversation helps me to get it all organized in my mind personally, and I also found it interesting to read your thoughts,
I may have to say, now that you’ve explained it, that I lean slightly more toward Covanentalism… but maybe even between that and new covenant. idk at the moment. Because I disagreed with things in both and agreed with things in both.
Take the circumcision thing. It was always to be done as an act of the heart from the beginning, and that’s where people started getting things wrong was when they started living the letter of the law. Like the fact that you aren’t allowed to walk (a mile I think) on the Sabbath, but if you left your donkey tied up past that then you could go walk there to feed it and/or bring it home, so then the pharisees started leaving their donkeys places they wanted to go. etc. What Paul said is it always was a matter of the heart to begin with, and now the physical act has been removed but the heart act is still there. I don’t think that’s changing it so much as showing the truth of it.
idk. Anyways.
Hmm. Theology books. Well, I read a lot of… hmm… what are they? idk what is classified as a “theology book.” lol. I’ve read several on womanhood and purity… but I doubt you’re looking for those. XD
Okay, let me just recommend some non-fiction books written by Christians and you can see if that’s what you’re looking for.
What on earth am I here for: the purpose driven life
One of the few by Jason B. Ladd.
(really liked this one because he was an atheist and goes about sort of trying to disprove God, and that doesn’t really work out. He was a soldier, a SEAL of a Marine, forget which, so he also compares a lot of the physical battles he fought to ways we must spiritually fight and how you can’t be a passive Christian)
Case For Christ By Lee Strobel. (I really like the movie too. It’s just really, really interesting. If you haven’t seen/read it, it’s a case lawyer trying to disprove God the same way one would solve a police case.)
Wrestling Prayer Eric Ludy
When God Writes Your Life Story Eric Ludy
I also have read tones of per-marital books but idk if you are interested in those. lol.
One disclaimer is that I have never really read a non-fiction book like these where I didn’t disagree on one thing or another here or there, but they were small enough things and weren’t big (like salvation through infant baptism, etc) that I still got a lot out of the book, if that makes sense.
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
Take the circumcision thing. It was always to be done as an act of the heart from the beginning, and that’s where people started getting things wrong was when they started living the letter of the law. Like the fact that you aren’t allowed to walk (a mile I think) on the Sabbath, but if you left your donkey tied up past that then you could go walk there to feed it and/or bring it home, so then the pharisees started leaving their donkeys places they wanted to go. etc. What Paul said is it always was a matter of the heart to begin with, and now the physical act has been removed but the heart act is still there. I don’t think that’s changing it so much as showing the truth of it.
I believe I agree with everything you said here on this. I hope it didn’t seem like I was saying that Israel was just supposed to follow the physical law. And even in the law itself, we can see the spiritual side of it as well (Deuteronomy 6:5).
Hmm. Theology books. Well, I read a lot of… hmm… what are they? idk what is classified as a “theology book.” lol. I’ve read several on womanhood and purity… but I doubt you’re looking for those. XD
Yeah, don’t think I need to read any books on how to be a godly woman, ha ha. Kind of nby theology books, I meant Christian books that aren’t stories and encourage us to live a more Godly life while teaching us more about Him. I would like to start a forum on here eventually for everyone to share books like this that they have read, like this, as they can be quite beneficial to us (though they should never replace the Bible, of course). The books you did mention seem to fall into those categories, so I’ll put them on my list of books to check out later. I recognize a couple of them. One of the Few seems like an interesting and convincing book. I find it easy to cower and hide my faith at times, so I feel that would be a good one for me to read. I will let you know my thoughts if I do get to any of them. Thank you!
I would encourage you again to check out Jerry Bridges. My mom and sisters don’t read a lot of theology books, but they do enjoy his stuff. He is easier to read than some other books, and his books will give you a lot to think about and push you to pursue a Godly lifestyle, and he shows us more of how God is working in our lives. You could try The Pursuit of Holiness, The Discipline of Grace, or Respectable Sins.
Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to see the stars.
I believe I agree with everything you said here on this. I hope it didn’t seem like I was saying that Israel was just supposed to follow the physical law. And even in the law itself, we can see the spiritual side of it as well (Deuteronomy 6:5).
perfect.
okay then, those books fit the category.
i will check them out. im in an airport at the moment, so it will have to wait. 😉
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who couldn't hear the music
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