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@Daeus @Dragon-Snapper I think it would be better for just avoiding any confusion if those similes weren’t used at all. I know one can’t always (nor should necessarily always) avoid everything that could potentially be confusing, but it would perhaps be better to just use different similes.
I don’t think it’s wrong to use them though, as far as I’ve thought out which isn’t much.@Kate-Flournoy We’re good. 😀
Thanks everyone for the great input.
I thought I’d start off by addressing the big point everyone had about not causing a more sensitive reader to stumble. I agree. Infact, I’ve got about 7,000 words worth of two articles on the subject that I’ll hopefully get published here as soon as I get around to the last revisions and submission. As I’ve been thinking about it though, I’ve realized it’s practically impossible to write something that could never cause anyone to stumble. I mean, take away all language, violence, and anything even vaguely romantic and some reader will still be turned away because they thought the way you represented a character was disrespectful of the archetype. People are just so different in the way they view things. My conclusion therfore has been that it is a writer’s job to keep their own conscience pure even on the safe side, but that they’re not responsible for the inevitable temptation somebody is going to receive just because humans are prone to sin. It is however their job to do all they can to prevent readers who might be turned off by their content from reading that content. For my own books, I plan to utilize a content advisory, specifically mentioning any possibly objectionable content and their specific location in the book so that the reader can either decide not to read the book, or skip over anything they don’t want to read.
As for your Ephesians 4:31 point, @dragon-snapper, I agree with that in regards to speech, but I guess I have a different understanding of technicalities of story. As far as I understand, there’s no major difference between swearing and any other sin which a character might commit that different. What I mean is, if a character lies, runs away from their duty, or assassinates a political opponent, I don’t see how you aren’t responsible for that, but you are if your character swears. Which doesn’t mean you should treat it with impunity. Any of those other sins I mentioned could leave a terrible impression if they were used too much, just for shock value, or treated from the wrong worldview.
@emma-flournoy I appreciate that point. While I doubt most readers out there would think that way, I do care about the minority, so I’ll give it some more thought.
@christi-eaton I have read the article, but I think I’ll read it again.🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢
This is one of the three biggest areas of caution when it comes to any form of entertainment, art, or media. And I think that’s because, as others have stated, God takes what comes out of the mouth very seriously.
But we question if when writing if it’s okay to show that “A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.”I not only consider the reader when thinking about course language (I agree with what @Emma-Flournoy said about this, that when I read books and come across course language I automatically assume that the author is alright with the word, just something natural that happens 🙂 )
But I also consider all the years my parents taught me that I shouldn’t use course language and I shouldn’t read it! So again it also comes back to an honoring my parents in this area. (which ultimately honors the Lord!)
So for me, would a course word show how evil my bad guy (or even how human my hero having a tough day) in a very real and dramatic way? Yes of course! But I’m an artist right? That means I am creative and should certainly be able to think of a way to show how evil my character is without having to risk my testimony, or compromise an existing principle my parents taught me.I may come back with thoughts on the similes 🙂
https://rolenahatfield.com/
Alright, here we go…
First things first. We all agree that coarse language is to be frowned upon, so I have a few questions.
1. How necessary is it to your character portrayal? Is it something that your villain would totally unravel your villain’s portrayal in your story?
2. What words are you using? The D-word, or something worse? I would say that the D-word is the one word that is the least bad of all the cuss words that exist (not saying that it’s right, but that it is not as terrible as saying the S-word or something).
3. Is there a way to make your villain evil, etc. without using a cuss word? In my writing, I resort to dramatic dialogue and some insults on someone’s honor (for a fantasy/medieval piece, of course).
Feel free to ask me to clarify anything. My opinion is that cussing is not a good thing—but that it is a twisted part of the world that will be there until Jesus comes back.
Any thoughts?
Jackson E. Graham
http://jacksonegraham.wixsite.com/jackson-e-graham@Daeus that’s a good idea about the content advisory.
I don’t quite agree with comparing curse words to romance or violence or any other more ‘normal’ sin, as their crime is not their existence, but spelling out their filthiness on the page. With ‘romance’ and violence, you can put as many or few details in as you like. With a curse word, it’s just there and there’s nothing you can do to make it less disgusting because it itself is the problem. But otherwise I agree with everything you said, and the disagreement is not that big of a deal for me. I can see both sides.Great points, everyone. 😀
@warrioroftherealm For question one, I’ll answer for the two that I that I feel are important. The other’s I can probably whip up a replacement for. The first is from an antagonist, though not quite villain. He curses another man. It’s not at all necessary to make him appear bad, but it does play an important role as a foil and, more importantly, as a major set up piece for a plot point. The second instance is at a climatic point in my story where basically my character’s whole world is turned upside down in a single second. To replace the word might make it humorous which is the last thing on earth that I want, and to just remove it — well, it would be an empty hole.
For points 2 and 3, yes the language is all mild and none of it is to make any character look nasty.
@kate-flournoy Yeah, language is an all or nothing subject, unlike the others. The point was that it’s not the same as if the author said it. And, just to be technical, “their crime is not their existence, but spelling out their filthiness on the page” is a self-contradiction, since, in literature, spelling something out is the only way it can exist and always makes a thing exist whether you like it or not.🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢
@Daeus true. I guess I meant more that to acknowledge their existence by saying ‘he cursed’ is not the same as actually putting all the lurid details down on the page.
@kate-flournoy True.
Now, here’s a related question I’ve struggled with. Is it ok to read curse words from a script? I’m thinking in a play particularly. The trick is, they’re not your own words, they’re the words of a non-existent character, but you’re speaking them out of your own mouth. I know I did a small study in theater during high school and I would pretty much read anything that was written on a script, but now, I think I’d avoid that just because I’m not sure what to think and wouldn’t want to walk out on a limb that might be rotten. It’s a tough question though, and a great thought challenge.
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@Daeus hm, yeah. That’s a puzzler. I would probably not do that, for the sake of my conscience and because I wouldn’t want to get accustomed to having bad words on my lips, even if they aren’t mine.
@daeus That’s another great point. I know I wouldn’t want to use a curse word from a script. The only time I’ve used what might be considered a curse word in a script was the d-word, but the context it was in wasn’t so much cursing, if you know what I mean? I’m not sure how to describe it, but if I had felt it was cursing, I’m fairly certain I wouldn’t have said it (it was Shakespeare and we were revising our own parts, and I ended up cutting that line out anyway) But again, I reckon it has to do with the actor’s personal convictions as to whether or not they say the words.
Currently reading Les Miserables
Rereading the line, the way to describe it was that it didn’t seem frivolous or just thrown in there for the sake of a curse word, but it was actually describing something, in this case, dead spirits returning to the graveyards (see why I cut the line? 😀 )
Currently reading Les Miserables
“The first is from an antagonist, though not quite villain. He curses another man. It’s not at all necessary to make him appear bad, but it does play an important role as a foil and, more importantly, as a major set up piece for a plot point.”
I’m not sure I understand how you are going to use this cuss word to be a foil. Can you expound a bit on that?
“The second instance is at a climatic point in my story where basically my character’s whole world is turned upside down in a single second. To replace the word might make it humorous which is the last thing on earth that I want, and to just remove it — well, it would be an empty hole.”
Would it be possible to say “He cursed under his breath” or something like that? If not, then try to just show the emotion on the character’s face. If he/she has had their entire world turned upside down in a short amount of time, they probably would be too shocked to even speak, and maybe spend time alone with themselves (you could end the scene with them walking into the woods or something similar).
Does this help?
Jackson E. Graham
http://jacksonegraham.wixsite.com/jackson-e-grahamOk, so for the first one, basically I’m setting up the difference between my MC and this other character (I’ll call him character A). It’s very important that this group of other characters come view my MC as representing their interests and character A as being against them. The impression needs to be very strong so the contrast needs to be stark. I also have very little time to make this impression, so it needs to be quick and decisive.
As for the second one, none of those other options would work with the situation, but maybe there’s something out there that would. I don’t know.
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“”2. What words are you using? The D-word, or something worse? I would say that the D-word is the one word that is the least bad of all the cuss words that exist (not saying that it’s right, but that it is not as terrible as saying the S-word or something). “”
No, it’s not right, and it’s not as harsh as other words, but regardless, it’s still against God.
James 2:11-12
For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” For if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.
@daeus No, I don’t think it’s alright to read it from a script, regardless of whether we wrote it or not. They may not be our words in particular, but as Christians, we are to be lights and set apart from the world. Allowing ourselves to say that is compromise to God’s commandments. By refusing to say such, we show that we are different.
1 Timothy 4:12
Let no one despise your youth, but be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity.And about Ephesians 4:31 @daeus I disagree with what you said. Although they are all sins, cursing, assassinating, running away, or all that you mentioned, there is meaning to each. To propel the story forward, we need to have assassinations or forsaking duty, but cursing has nothing to do with the plot. It’s simply a piece of dialogue that can be replaced. I remember one of KP’s articles, How Can I Write For The Kingdom, made it clear that we can have conflicts, but as long as we make it clear that its wrong and an abomination before God. Cursing has nothing to do with our plot, does it? By using an unnecessary word and never showing that it’s bad, readers may get the wrong idea and think that the author is saying its okay. That could cause them to rationalize by saying, “Oh, author used it, so can I.”
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