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@hannah-c Yes, very nice.
Okay: prose is definitely NOT what you say it is. Prose is something entirely different. It would be better if things were used in their proper places so that we could hold a logical, systematic, whatever-it’s-called conversation. (No offense, or anything. XD)
Okay: well first of all, when people refer to that sort of thing as “poetry”, they aren’t called it poetry in the sense of written, metrical, rhythmic verse. They are likening that piece in the prose to the emotional impact or whatever that poetry gives. Among other things, I’m sure. But that’s usually the general gist.
Yes, true, etc. There are many types of poetry, and yes, large sections of the Bible are in poetry. A psalm is a distinct poetry form, actually. That’s why they are called The Psalms. Many of the prophetical books are in poetry, also as various others in the Old Testament are in poetry. There are definitely many different forms of poetry, not all including rhyme and rhythm. Rhythm is more defining than rhyme, though.
Poetry can be defined. It can be set apart from other pieces of writing. And there is a distinct line between “poetry” and “prose”. Those are two very different writing forms.
“…Well, that is just an opinion that my opinion was just an opinion. 😜 But as you said, its a free country…”
First of all, going off of this quote of yours — NO: it is not just my own opinion that your opinion is indeed an opinion. I know for a fact that it is an opinion, and there are numerous amounts of people who are knowledgable in the realms of poetry who would agree with me. It has been studied, this art of poetry, and there are certain things that are called truths of the craft. Things that are true in accordance with poetry: things that cannot be changed, because that would make them untrue. They are true, and thus they stand.
Like I said before, rhyming can be a great tool when used in poetry to create a dramatic feel or make a point. BUT: it is not the only way to do so. There are numerous other ways to do this. All the tools of actual, correct poetry have a place. And, while they can be used to a great extent together, there is a distinct difference between them. They each have their purpose. And their purpose does not change.
“Rhyme adds a happier feel to a poem…” You quoted me here, but you did not quote all of what I said. The rest of the quote goes as follows: “Rhyme adds a happier feel to a poem (among other things).”
I said “among other things” for a reason. I did not say only that rhyme adds a happier feel to a poem. In many cases it does. But also, among other things, rhyme can add something different than a happier feel to a poem. I never said it couldn’t. BUT: so can many other tools of poetry. Just because rhyme can, doesn’t make it the best choice to do so. It is still a tool, and that, to be used appropriately.
Very nice: you write poetry. But just because you write by feel or how it comes to you, doesn’t make it anything less than poetry. It doesn’t make it any better, either. Unless there is a certain clarity in the punch of the meaning that shows actual emotions. So, although you say it might not be proper, it may as well be. I write that way all the time. In fact, that’s the main way I write poetry, whether that means through rhymes or otherwise.
That’s true: modern poetry isn’t great at all. The idea nowadays, is that “anyone can be a poet”. Well, I got news for you, people! XD That ain’t true. Sure, maybe anyone is able to write something that resembles poetry. But it may not be actual poetry.
Poetry is, as defined by Noah Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language, to be “metrical composition; verse; as heroic poetry; dramatic poetry; lyric or Pindaric poetry.” Also: “The art or practice of composing in verse.” “Poems; poetical composition.” “This term is also applied to the language of excited imagination and feeling.”
So: people may think they are writing poetry, but they may be writing something totally different. It’s not just all about form. It’s about meaning, and expression of emotion through good form. Whether free verse or otherwise.
That’s the kind of poetry I like: actual poetry. While decisively “modern” people write emotions or whatever, they don’t write in good form. They write just a bunch of letters in the form of a literary scrambled eggs. And most times, it doesn’t convey any sense of emotion. One has to know one’s craft in order to practice it.
@Leon-Fleming well I said it probably wasn’t the correct definition. Ok so that clears things up a bit. Personally, I still wouldn’t class it as poetry but until I become president of some world wide literary organization something-or-other, there isn’t much I can do about it. XD
I really think that we are saying basically the same things, but through the filter of our own biases. 😜 If I am not very much mistaken (and I am sure you’ll tell me if I am, ha!), you lean more toward prose and free style verse. I lean more toward rhyming poetry. I agree, as I have already, that each has its place. Which lends a more dramatic or happier feel is perhaps personal taste. I could write something very dramatic in rhyme which to you might appear amusing. Just as you could write something in prose and free verse that jests about the woes of life and I could read it as a rather depressing stanza of someone writing their thoughts in the same format as poetry. I think a lot of this really depends on how the person reads it. True, there are certain undeniable truths of the craft which do not change. They are solid. But, the way a writing is read changes, not the way it was portrayed, but the way it is understood from person to person. If that makes sense.
Yes, you did say “among other things”. Perhaps I should have quoted that part as well but I was mainly focusing on the first part. So yes, its a tool and used appropriately it can work either way. We agree.
When I say I write as it comes to me I basically mean that I don’t necessarily set out to follow any set meter. I do, however, take great pains to arrange my words to be clear and concise and to flow smoothly.
It could be that the majority of prose that I have come across is modern day so that could explain why I am not overly fond of it. On the whole I find it rather disjointed and depressing, not to mention confusing. I agree that just because you can put words together on paper, doesn’t mean you should. Literary scrambled eggs is a good way to put it. I, too, like poetry that makes sense and conveys feeling in good form. I have see quotes from different people that, while not poetry or even rhyming, seems like poetry because of the form and flow. As I said, I think essentially we agree on things, or rather, we agree on the essential things. 😉
“One has to know one’s craft in order to practice it.”
Yes, quite quotable.
Just to satisfy my own curiosity, do you mind if I ask how old you are?
@Hannah-c Okay: so not classifying it as poetry, is like not classifying a salmon as a fish. XD Just a note.
[quote quote=83191]I really think that we are saying basically the same things, but through the filter of our own biases. 😜 If I am not very much mistaken (and I am sure you’ll tell me if I am, ha!), you lean more toward prose and free style verse. I lean more toward rhyming poetry. I agree, as I have already, that each has its place. Which lends a more dramatic or happier feel is perhaps personal taste. I could write something very dramatic in rhyme which to you might appear amusing. Just as you could write something in prose and free verse that jests about the woes of life and I could read it as a rather depressing stanza of someone writing their thoughts in the same format as poetry. I think a lot of this really depends on how the person reads it. True, there are certain undeniable truths of the craft which do not change. They are solid. But, the way a writing is read changes, not the way it was portrayed, but the way it is understood from person to person. If that makes sense.[/quote]
RIGHT: Let me dissect this a bit, if you will. Or not, it really doesn’t matter! XD *cough* okay, anyways.
Your first sentence is wrong because I’m not looking through the “filter of” my “own bias”. I’m simply stating what’s true.
Your second sentence also is wrong because, although I do enjoy both prose and free verse, I also enjoy many other forms of poetry, including poems with rhymes in them. In fact, I love both writing and reading dozens of different poetry forms. Just because I’m arguing that rhyming isn’t the element that defines poetry, doesn’t mean I don’t like it.
BUT: I don’t lean towards any particular type of poetry or any poetry tool for that matter: I lean towards poetry.
The idea of one thing relaying a more dramatic or humorous feel over another is not a subject up for debate, simply because both poetry and prose can do both of these things and more to a tremendous literary distance.
As for that point you made on “how the person reads it”: that is silly and irrelevant. The reader can read something any way he or she likes. But, getting down to it, there is authorial intent. Meaning, the things the author wrote, are written for a reason and express one meaning through the words. There are cases where it is debatable what the author meant, mainly because either the author didn’t make himself clear, or he stated his opinion/etc in such a way that it could be interpreted many different ways. In poetry, this idea varies. I write many things that mean something different than their outward appearance, but those are representations (there’s a more technical term for it) for actual events. BUT: those are still great descriptions of things, besides the point of the actual intent. Only I, as the author, knows that intent, and I usually leave it that way. The poem still works though, because I can mean its outward appearance as well; at the same time.
There is a reason for everything, even if it is a mistake.
[quote quote=83191]But, the way a writing is read changes, not the way it was portrayed, but the way it is understood from person to person. If that makes sense.[/quote]
If this is so, then why do so many readers understand what authors wrote in their books? If you are stating this as a universal truth, then what’s the point of writing if the author will never be able to portray his point? It’s pretty obvious in most cases what an author means when he states something.
For example, when an author says this: “The boy walked nonchalantly towards the staircase.” Guess what he means? He means that the boy walked nonchalantly towards the staircase. Just because he COULD have stated that the boy watched a fly rubbing its legs together on the wall to his left, doesn’t mean that the boy actually did. If the author wanted this to happen and to be noticed, he would write it in as such. But the author didn’t: he merely wanted his readers to know that “the boy” walked nonchalantly towards the staircase.
So: after clearly dissecting that first paragraph of yours, I shall move on. (XD)
[quote quote=83191]Yes, you did say “among other things”. Perhaps I should have quoted that part as well but I was mainly focusing on the first part. So yes, its a tool and used appropriately it can work either way. We agree.[/quote]
Well, you can’t focus on one point of what I say unless you take into context the other things that I say. This just complicates and confuses things. For example: If you said, “I will burn your books when you give me a million dollars.” I could take this: “I will burn your books” and get angry at you for saying that you’ll burn my books. “My books” generally refers to ALL of my books. Which would definitely make me quite irritated. Though I’m sure you would have a rational reason for doing so…(XD)
You see what I mean? So, although we NOW agree on THAT point, it would have been a lot easier it you had just asked for clarification concerning what I mean by “among other things”.
[quote quote=83191]When I say I write as it comes to me I basically mean that I don’t necessarily set out to follow any set meter. I do, however, take great pains to arrange my words to be clear and concise and to flow smoothly.[/quote]
Very nice; I usually wait for…something. I won’t tell you what; then I take it and begin writing down the flow of thoughts as they come to me.
[quote quote=83191]It could be that the majority of prose that I have come across is modern day so that could explain why I am not overly fond of it. On the whole I find it rather disjointed and depressing, not to mention confusing. I agree that just because you can put words together on paper, doesn’t mean you should. Literary scrambled eggs is a good way to put it. I, too, like poetry that makes sense and conveys feeling in good form. I have see quotes from different people that, while not poetry or even rhyming, seems like poetry because of the form and flow. As I said, I think essentially we agree on things, or rather, we agree on the essential things.[/quote]
Hey, not being fond of prose, is just fine. Have you read Jane Austen’s Pride and Prejudice? Or Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings? Or Charles Dickens’ Great Expectations? Or Agatha Christie’s The Secret of Chimneys? All of these novels show expertise in the craft of prose and are (how coincidental) not modern novels. XD Although many modern “authors” write terrible prose, there are a few who write great prose. I tend to stray to the older authors and poets when looking for a book with great prose/poetry and variance of vocabulary. Nowadays, vocabulary has virtually deteriorated. Which is very sad. Vocabulary and the English language was once in of itself a work of art. So was the cloths of back then. Especially those of the Pride and Prejudice era.
As for your note on some selected pieces of prose sounding like poetry, I would agree. I love reading pieces like this. Off the top of my head, the only book where I see this happen is The Lord of the Rings with the character of Tom Bombadil (one of my favourite characters). Those scenes concerning both him and the river woman’s daughter, Goldberry, are definitely some of my favourite.
I don’t at all mind answering that question at all. Providing you give me your age as well. XD I’ve had many people on many different occasions question the authenticity of my profile picture and also my age. As of now, I’m not sure why…to some small extent. Currently, I am five and ten years of age, turning sixteen late this year. And just if you were wondering, that is me in my profile picture. XD
Crumbs. None of my quoting things worked. Oh, well.
@Leon-Fleming upon further reflection, I realize I must apologize. I have been arguing for the sake of it and not because I have something constructive to say. And you are correct that I have been stating opinion as fact. You clearly have me beat on your knowledge of poetry and I really don’t have a leg to stand on so I concede to you. Yes, all poetry us useful but not all of it is to my taste. You have made some very well reasoned arguments and it has been fun discussing with you even if I didn’t know what I was doing. 🙂
I am in complete agreeance with you about modern authors and vocabulary. Nowadays writings lack a certain character and dimension which classical writings possessed. It is sad about vocabulary because there are so many wonderful words and ways to string them together.
Ah, all the more impressing that you craft such cohesive arguments. I am an elderly lady of 22 and those are indeed my boots in my profile picture. XD
@hannah-c 🙂 Apology accepted! I feel that I, too, must apologize, for at times it seems like I was probably too argumentative. My bad; true, also as not all poetry is to my taste either. Some forms can be quite hideous.
It’s been fun talking with you as well, for I’ve been able to get out large amounts of my thoughts concerning poetry (which I’ll probably end up using in later writings). So, thanks for arguing, it helped. XD
Unfortunately, yes, this is a sad world we live in right now. But then again, hasn’t it always been. There are some, though, who do write quite well compared with modern day writers. I’m looking around for those.
XD Yes, I wondered whether those boots were yours. Are you on Story Embers by chance?
@leon-Fleming that’s very good of you. Likewise, your apology is also accepted. Yes, some forms of poetry can be quite hideous.
Ha! Well if my arguing was of some use than I am glad. I also find it is easier to figure out your own thoughts on things if you write them down.
No, I am not on Story Embers.
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