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@sarafini
The Trinity is such a beautiful and essential thing, which… really, is still a bit of a mystery XD I believe the Trinity is Three in One, Three Persons, One God, equal in power and glory.
I can’t think of a bunch of verses off the top of my head. But a proof I love is in the very beginning!
Genesis 1:26: Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.”
Verse 27: So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him,
male and female he created them.
Three, but One! Isn’t that so cool!?
“Everything is a mountain”
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Oh yes! For sure. My tiny human brain still cannot comprehend that tho. Lol
I wanted to add some thoughts on the question of discerning truth. I agree with Whaley’s assessment, because if we are constantly making decisions based on how we feel, we’re headed down a dangerous path. Feelings and emotions don’t last; we may feel something one day and the next day have a totally different feeling about something, or as we gain a new revelation about something our feelings change about it. I once heard a pastor say, “Feelings are a great servant, but a terrible master.” I’m not saying to ignore feelings- it’s definitely important to take them into consideration, because they can be indicators, but discerning truth based on feelings is never going to stand because feelings aren’t a solid foundation.
That being said, there have definitely been times where I’ve gotten an impression or feeling from the Holy Spirit that was right- but unless it’s something insignificant that’s not going to affect your life, it should absolutely be backed up with the Bible.
"Real love is for your good, not for your comfort." -Justin Whitmel Earley
Wow, a lot of sudden activity in the short time I was gone😅
It’s been going really well! I’ve been working, doing some writing (obviously,) and preparing for a two year mission that will hopefully start earlier next year. How have you been?
I was just catching up on the most recent posts on this Apologetics forum as there always seem to be interesting conversations brewing here.
I’m totally down to continue our previous conversation or move to a new one (the questions you asked in your most recent posts are quite fascinating) do you have any preference? Because either way, I’m sure it would lead to an interesting discussion.
Yeah, I really enjoy the discussions on here, it’s sometimes hard to trigger peoples curiosity though, and it’s been inactive for a while, glad there’s the sudden saturation!
I’m happy either way as well, you said that you would have more questions, and I was intrigued by where the conversation was going, but I’m always very eager to explore other different subjects as well. I would even be happy to explore both if you up for it, so whatever is tickling your interest the most right now.
@sarafini
Um… you ask super deep questions and I’m a new Christian. Also I’m a Reformed Baptist just for clarification. 😉
To your latest question: When solving dilemmas not spoken of in scripture, I pray for starters and then ask trusted older people who know better than me for advice. Such as my parents, Sunday school teacher, Pastor, ect.
That’s definitely a good way to handle personal questions! Pray first and foremost. If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God! What I’m referring to more specifically though are the questions that are bickered over between denominations and pastors. You should always consult those of higher knowledge and authority, such as your parents or pastor, but you have to be aware they they are still people with flaws and opinions that may or may not be correct, especially with the topics that no one can seem to agree on. In the end though, I think you hit the mark when you said to pray first.
Love your tagline too. It’s so true!
Thanks😅
The answer is simple enough. We discern truth based on the truth God has revealed to us in his Word. He tends to be both logical in the Bible – I believe strongly in Sola Scriptura – and appealing by his Spirit. When you’re a Christian, those two ideas don’t contradict. They both drive you by the same truths and goal.
I agree. Though I do have issues with Sola Scriptura, I do believe that the Bible is the word of God that he preserved, but I also believe that God has not stopped speaking to his children. Again, If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. I just find it odd, because so many I’ve spoken to recently, seem to have this extremist view saying that any feeling you have that feels like a direction to do something, is simply Satan leading you astray, and the only safety is to live by the Bible word per word. I do not deny that Satan does actively try leading us astray, tempting us to do wrong, but I always thought it a basic component of Christianity that the Spirit guides us. It’s a matter of telling which is which, not blocking out all spiritual connection. I do not believe that God will contradict his own doctrine, but it feels like people have attempted to tie his mouth shut for fear that he might.
What do you mean by REALLY? XD
Ok, so for example, some people say that killing at all is evil, but there are cases that killing had to be done for the greater good all throughout scripture. Some say that it is just anything God does, but if that’s the case, good and evil looses meaning, because it’s completely arbitrary to what He feels like doing (I’m actually not sure where you would stand on this Whale, because I think you would stand on the theology that it’s just anything God does, but you also talked about how we could write stories about principles of right and wrong without needing to address God deliberately, suggesting some sense of right and wrong, and therefore not a whatever God feels like thing.) Others say that it has to do with intent, others refute that, pointing out that good things have come out of bad intent, and bad things have come out of good intent, but that point also is self referential, talking about good and evil. So we as humans can often know it when we see it, but there’s other situations that are more fuzzy, and we get philosophical about it, but we can’t seem to understand the fundamental qualities that define right and wrong. So what is good and evil really? I hope that clears up the question.
There are many interpretations out there, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a right interpretation.
I think there are elements in the Bible that can be heavily discussed, and we can only come to strengthen our opinions, since we can’t know we’re right.
In that case, I can’t tell you the answer, except that we need to look at everything with an aim towards the truth, unfazed by distractions or personal fulfillment.
But there are some which are essential to salvation, and with the aid of God, we know they’re true. There are fundamental truths which you cannot be a Christian without. In that case, you know.
I honestly believe that the Bible is amazingly consistent, if you study the overarching story, the microcosms, all of that AWESOME stuff. (Which I want to talk about someday on here!!) So another thing you can remember is that God is always right, always perfect in his communication, even if we get it wrong.
Wonderful points! I agree that one can draw a lot of truth from looking at the same scripture in different ways, and therefore getting different interpretations from it, however I make reference to when different people appear to draw opposite conclusions from the same thing. Let’s consider baptism for example, some people say it’s necessary for salvation, while others don’t. Those who say it’s necessary point out that Christ was baptized, even though he never needed to, because he was perfect, yet others point out that we don’t need it, because Christ took care of it all on the cross. So these are clearly two different interpretations that lead to drastic decelerations of what will and won’t save you. I agree that the Bible is consistent, but because we aren’t, we seem to get caught up still confused about what we’re supposed to do or not, bickering with one another over it. Even dare I point out “There are fundamental truths which you cannot be a Christian without.” can be regarded as an interpretation as far as what those truths are. Like many say that I cannot be a Christian, because I’m non-trinitarian, but I read and believe in the Bible, I try to have a personal relationship with the same Christ that is in the new testament, yet because I interpret a few things like that differently, many shun my faith, going as far as calling it a cult, and spawn of the devil. But these statements, if grounded in anything at all, are again, interpretations, they could be right, but how can you know, who but God has the authority to say that is correct? I got into a few heavy notes with that one, we don’t need to get into the specifics of what we individually believe(unless we want to), that’s not my purpose, but I think it gives a good idea of what I’m trying to convey about how people seem to see the same thing differently, and so who’s to say who’s right but God? I understand that the points I’ve made may simply be blasphemy to some, as it essentially attacks the idea of Sola Scriptura specifically, and I accept that, but I think it is something that should be more openly discussed, because we bicker about the interpretation so much, that I think it healthy to step back and think about where those interpretations come from and why.
Oof, I love this question, because when you dig down to the foundation of Christianity, you begin to realize God’s unique perspective can be compared to any other perspective, with enough context. It’s all about knowing what those foundations are. (I love the word know so much right now XD) You have to boil in those truths for a while – and I’m honestly still new at displaying them with certainty, so keep that in mind – but I would promise to anyone it is so worth it.
Yes, ultimately, I think that everything can be correlated with scripture in some shape or form. However some have taken modern issues, and have applied scripture wrongfully to do great atrocities, indeed abominations before God. However, it’s easy to tell when one is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and saying it works, obviously justifying their own will to do something, and not an honest desire to follow God, but what about the slightly elliptical pegs that look like they fit to the round hole, and you falsely assume it works, unaware that your off course, even if it is subtly. I think more often than not scripture can be accurately applied, but I do think those more subtle instances can occur.
I wanted to add some thoughts on the question of discerning truth. I agree with Whaley’s assessment, because if we are constantly making decisions based on how we feel, we’re headed down a dangerous path. Feelings and emotions don’t last; we may feel something one day and the next day have a totally different feeling about something, or as we gain a new revelation about something our feelings change about it. I once heard a pastor say, “Feelings are a great servant, but a terrible master.” I’m not saying to ignore feelings- it’s definitely important to take them into consideration, because they can be indicators, but discerning truth based on feelings is never going to stand because feelings aren’t a solid foundation.
That being said, there have definitely been times where I’ve gotten an impression or feeling from the Holy Spirit that was right- but unless it’s something insignificant that’s not going to affect your life, it should absolutely be backed up with the Bible.
Yeah, excellent point. My particular theology put’s high emphasis on feeling the Spirit, which is separate from the simple feelings. However it can be hard to distinguish between the Spirit and your own thoughts. We are very detailed about how one can tell it’s from the Spirit or not, for one we usually ask whether or not it bears good fruit, for all good things come from God. Feelings compel you to do what you want, the Spirit compels you to do what God wants. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t confusion, telling the Spirit form one’s own feelings is difficult. The Spirit should be present when one studies the scriptures with humble desire as well, so I believe that they really function in tandem. It’s an excellent point your pastor made, feelings themselves are indeed good servants, as well as our mind as a whole, but I think our feelings is separate from the Spirit, and if you have a strong enough relationship with the Spirit, then it can be the very greatest master.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
Yes, I agree with that as well. I’ve grown up in a charismatic church, so I also believe Holy Spirit still speaks to us today, and I do agree that feeling or sensing the Holy Spirit is different that our own emotions and feelings, and yes, it is a process of discernment to distinguish between the two.
And going back to the subject of Scripture, I’ve seen a lot of leaders and pastors take the Word of God and cherry-pick it so that it conforms to their worldview, and I think that’s where a lot of wrong interpretations come from. (Also, there’s the fact that we’re humans and we’re going to misunderstand things, and that’s also a valid reason for misinterpreting Scriptures) But I think the approach we ought to take when reading the Bible is asking God how our worldview needs to change based on what He’s saying, instead of trying to change His Word to fit our worldview. I think that’s pretty much what you were saying as well, in different wording.
"Real love is for your good, not for your comfort." -Justin Whitmel Earley
Yes, I agree with that as well. I’ve grown up in a charismatic church, so I also believe Holy Spirit still speaks to us today, and I do agree that feeling or sensing the Holy Spirit is different that our own emotions and feelings, and yes, it is a process of discernment to distinguish between the two.
And going back to the subject of Scripture, I’ve seen a lot of leaders and pastors take the Word of God and cherry-pick it so that it conforms to their worldview, and I think that’s where a lot of wrong interpretations come from. (Also, there’s the fact that we’re humans and we’re going to misunderstand things, and that’s also a valid reason for misinterpreting Scriptures) But I think the approach we ought to take when reading the Bible is asking God how our worldview needs to change based on what He’s saying, instead of trying to change His Word to fit our worldview. I think that’s pretty much what you were saying as well, in different wording.
Yeah! That is a wonderful summary! In the end, I think we can all agree that we should simply be humble, and have continual desire to learn with an honest and meek heart!
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
Here’s the apologetics page if your interested! It’s strayed from apologetics more and has entered general discussion on reality, so I thought you’d like to check it out.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
Thanks! Could you also link me to the page where I could share stuff about my WIP?
“You’re heavier than you look.”
“It’s all brains and muscle.”It would probably be best if you started your own page. You can do that if you go to Forums: then look for Critiques, then Novel Critique requests, then you should be able to make one. I hope that helps!
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
Hey Whale, just wanted to check in. I know you’ve been active, but haven’t made any response on this forum, so I’m perpetually worried that I may have offended you in any way by my words. If your not responding for any other reason, I completely understand, I just wanted to be sure.
I’m still awaiting responses from others as well, but your the only one that has been active and I said the most to.
Thanks for bearing with me!
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
You know what might also be interesting to explore since you’ve talked about your questions and issues with Joseph Smith and my Church as a whole, we can play the reversal game where I talk about my own questions and misunderstandings of Orthodox Christianity (Or whatever sect you subscribe to if any) if your comfortable. Trailblazer did an incredible job at explaining the necessity of the Holy Ghost within the Trinity to me, so it could be cool to continue down that road to see where it goes.
We could further discuss the nature of God’s being, getting into the ideas of the Omni-God view, versus others. we could talk about the History of Orthodox Christianity with the reformation, creeds, ect, since that’s more along the lines of our discussion of Joseph Smith. Or we could discuss anything else if your ever up for getting back into it.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
Sorry for suddenly going mia for a bit, one of my co-workers got sick so I had a few unexpected shifts this week and haven’t been able to get online until now!
Anyway, good to be back again, yet again!
It’s been going really well! I’ve been working, doing some writing (obviously,) and preparing for a two-year mission that will hopefully start earlier next year. How have you been?
A two-year missions trip is a pretty big undertaking! Are you excited? Anxious? How’s been the preparation process?
As for me, I’ve been pretty good. Right now, I’m working on future plans for what I want Kingdom Pen to be while also looking for a full-time job. I currently work part-time at a bakery/cafe, however, if I want to pay my car insurance making iced caramel macchiatos isn’t going to cut it lol. But either way, I’ve been having fun and doing well. Just haven’t been writing as much as I’d like, which I plan on changing very soon! Not writing is unacceptable! Outrageous even!
You know what might also be interesting to explore since you’ve talked about your questions and issues with Joseph Smith and my Church as a whole, we can play the reversal game where I talk about my own questions and misunderstandings of Orthodox Christianity
Great idea! As you probably can guess, I’m not the most literate or knowledgeable theologist by a long shot, however, I’m more than happy to answer any questions you have from my understanding as someone who grew up in a more Orthodox church.
And maybe your questions will spark more questions in me for you about the LDS Church and we can have more of a back-and-forth of questions and answers.
So yeah! Ask away! I’ll do my best to answer whatever questions you have, and if any more questions about the LDS Church pop up for me, I’ll be sure to send them your way. 🤠
Sorry for suddenly going mia for a bit, one of my co-workers got sick so I had a few unexpected shifts this week and haven’t been able to get online until now!
Anyway, good to be back again, yet again!
That’s totally fine, sorry if I was spamming you at all. Welcome back again!
A two-year missions trip is a pretty big undertaking! Are you excited? Anxious? How’s been the preparation process?
Very excited, maybe a little anxious, but I will go where the Lord takes me😁 So right now I’m just working to build up money for it, as well as taking time preparing myself spiritually, but when my Sister gets back from her mission, I’ll probably start the process officially.
As for me, I’ve been pretty good. Right now, I’m working on future plans for what I want Kingdom Pen to be while also looking for a full-time job. I currently work part-time at a bakery/cafe, however, if I want to pay my car insurance making iced caramel macchiatos isn’t going to cut it lol. But either way, I’ve been having fun and doing well. Just haven’t been writing as much as I’d like, which I plan on changing very soon! Not writing is unacceptable! Outrageous even!
Cool! I can’t wait to see how KP grows in your hands! I can’t really offer any comments or advice as far as finding a job, but I’ll give your prayers for that journey!
Great idea! As you probably can guess, I’m not the most literate or knowledgeable theologist by a long shot, however, I’m more than happy to answer any questions you have from my understanding as someone who grew up in a more Orthodox church.
And maybe your questions will spark more questions in me for you about the LDS Church and we can have more of a back-and-forth of questions and answers.
So yeah! Ask away! I’ll do my best to answer whatever questions you have, and if any more questions about the LDS Church pop up for me, I’ll be sure to send them your way. 🤠
Awesome! Yeah, a more neutral discussion is always better! That’s alright, I’m not a master theologist either, but I found that these conversations have been very helpful and informative for me to learn more about and challenge my faith in a more dynamic way that has helped me grow in a lot of ways.
Ok, so since we were talking about Joseph Smith for the most part, I wanted to focus on early Christian history. Although how we approach that changes depending on what denomination you subscribe to if any. At least whether your Catholic or some protestant offshoot. Based off our past conversation, I believe your the latter, but I’m not sure. I’ll ride that assumption if that’s ok.
So you mentioned in our past conversation that the story of a restoration nearly 2000 years after Christ seems odd narrative wise, pointing out that Christ giving his Gospel when he lived and we simply follow that for the rest of history is a much more symmetrical and straight forward. I would agree with this, but the issue is that restoration or not, the history of Christianity after Christ is unavoidably messy. Christ gave Authority to Peter to build the Church. Said authority is a stressed concept both in the old and new testaments. What develops eventually is the Catholic Church, which claims to have the same authority as Peter. If your not Catholic, then my question would be how do you regard the concept of Authority. By not being Catholic, you denounce their authority, but now where’s your authority? So my question would be, does what it means to have Authority perhaps different from what both Catholic and LDS faiths think? If you are Catholic, sorry for my assumption, and I have a different question if so, but I’d love to hear what your thoughts are on this either way.
He is perfect in Justice, yet He is perfect in Mercy, even when we fail Him. For this, He is good.
Hey Whale, just wanted to check in. I know you’ve been active, but haven’t made any response on this forum, so I’m perpetually worried that I may have offended you in any way by my words. If your not responding for any other reason, I completely understand, I just wanted to be sure.
I’m still awaiting responses from others as well, but your the only one that has been active and I said the most to.
Hi Arcane! I have been active, but mostly because my tech has been glitching and leaving my profile active on here when I’m not actually doing anything. 🤪
…The biggest reason I haven’t been on here is because my mum has been very sick over the past three years, and we’re in the home stretch in regards to getting diagnosed. She hasn’t been able to eat or walk much due to the nausea, and she can barely think. This last week she had to purposefully eat terrible food so she could get even sicker, in order to get the doctors to notice.
So although I have been commenting now and then, I really don’t have the mental energy to have a theological conversation. I’m sorry about avoiding the conversation, and next time I’ll warn you when I’m going to be “gone.” I guess I just didn’t want to explain.
I really relate to worrying you’ve offended someone, because I feel that way all the time. You have not offended me at all, just ruffled my Reformed feathers a bit 😂
Thanks for bearing with me!
Not at all! Thank you for bearing with me ❤️
“Everything is a mountain”
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