- This topic has 49 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Sup, KeePers?
It’s official, I’m stumped. I’ve been roaming the fields of my imagination in circles for months, looking for an awesome antagonist for my WIP (codename: Personification), but to no avail.
I’ve seen that same tree representing the power-hungry, stereotypical Overlord one too many times, and I think I have finally drained my creativity to the dregs. All the motives I can think of seem either too cliché or don’t seem strong enough to justify the villainous actions necessary to beat my protagonist into a pulp. (Well, you know what I mean. ;))I believe I am simply in need of some fresh perspectives on fictional baddies in general. So….*evil chuckle*
Who are your favorite fictional villains? What do you love about them? As a reader, what makes an antagonist intriguing to you?
And, on the more writing-related side of things….
I’ve heard conflicting reports on how to create antagonists. Some say they should be the mirror, of the protagonist, others say they should share key qualities with the protagonist. What do you guys think?
Also, should one avoid writing a villain who isn’t connected to the protagonist on a deep, personal level?I’m mainly just looking for a way to boost my imagination, and I hope to draw inspiration from just seeing what qualities you all appreciate in an antagonist. 😀 Oh, and real quick, I know I’m merging terminology by using antagonist and villain as if they were one in the same. I understand that there is a distinction between the two. I am speaking of villains who are also the antagonists exclusively.
Ta,
Gracie
@Kate-Flournoy @Ethryndal @Winter-Rose @Daeus @R-J-Wordsmith @That_Writer_Girl_99 @Jess @Emma-Flournoy @Dragon-Snapper @All-the-villain-lovers*is probably geeking out about something*
Oh my goodness! This is tough. I’ll have to think about it before I can respond properly. That okay?
Writer. Dreamer. Sometimes blogger. MBTI mess. Lover of Jesus and books.
@that_writer_girl_99 Errr, I don’t know…You see, this morning I was so sick of trying to fix my villain that I promised my brother he could burn my manuscript if I didn’t have a motive figured out by tonight….
Jk. 😜 Take all the time you need. At your leisure. 🙂
*is probably geeking out about something*
I don’t have the time right now to answer all your questions, but I will give you a quick list of some of my favorite villains, and I’ll try to think of a reason why I love each one! 😉
Ledroptha Curtain from the Mysterious Benedict Society- he’s an absolute genius who fits almost no cliche other than being power-hungry, which is simply a fact that fits most villains. It would be interesting to see a villain who wasn’t power-hungry at all… if they aren’t after power, what is their driving force? (and something besides revenge. 😉 )
Regis Blackgaard from Adventures in Odyssey- he’s a gentleman villain. I’ve seen only a select few of these, and they’ve always proven to be some of my favorites! By a gentleman villain, I mean he’s smooth, charming, and never gets his own hands dirty. He’s difficult to pin any crimes on!
Saruman from Lord of the Rings- another “gentleman villain.”
Kynlas from Shadows of the Hersweald- he’s cunning, bold, and not afraid to slit throats to get what he wants. While a truly despicable character, you can’t help but respect his abilities and the experience it took to get them.
I could list several others, but that’s all I have time for right now. I hope it helps! 😀
"Courage is action in spite of fear."
@corissa-maiden-of-praise Thank you! I didn’t realize how many questions I had asked till I read through it later. 😁 All those bad guys sound pretty good. 🙂 I think Ledroptha Curtain sounds most like my sad excuse for a villain. Maybe I can look at what makes L.C. great and take some pointers. I do know Saruman and vaguely remember Regis Blackgaard, but I haven’t read any of the others. Shadows of Hersweald is @Hope’s new book, correct? Thanks again. 😀
*is probably geeking out about something*
@graciegirl Hmm…villains. *que maniacal laugh*
@corissa-maiden-of-praise Umm…didn’t @hope write the Shadows of Hersweald? 😛
Anyway, my favorite villains are the following.
Bevin Conner from the False Prince: He has a calm demeanor and is very cunning, and will do anything to get what he wants. He doesn’t like to get his hands dirty. Also, his motives are less for himself, but more for his country. He’s a patriot, but a devious one.
Mother Gothel from Tangled: Her motives are true, not to mention she has a great singing voice and theme song. 😛☀ ☀ ☀ ENFP ☀ ☀ ☀
@graciegirl The way I see it, there are three different approaches you can take with villains: the foil approach, the tempter approach, and the testing ground approach. The foil approach is basically what you mentioned above: make the villain a mirror of the protagonist, or sharing similar qualities to the protagonist. Another way of putting it is that this villain should likely be an example of who the hero would become if the hero failed to grow in his character arc. So a good villain here should be very similar to the protagonist with some key differences. Think Gollum in LotR or Pharaoh in Prince of Egypt.
The tempter approach is basically what it sounds like: you use the villain thematically to try and tempt the hero to the wrong side. This will often share some similarities with the foil approach, but often it’s less necessary here for the villain to share the same character traits with the protagonist. Iago from Shakespeare’s Othello and the Joker from The Dark Knight are two good examples of this.
Finally, the testing ground approach is when the villain’s primary function is to be an obstacle that the hero has to beat in the plot/character arc. This is going to easily be the weakest approach for a villain, as it often means the villain isn’t developed, so you’ll often need to use multiple villains if you want one villain to just be a testing ground. Sauron from LotR and the Emperor from Star Wars both fall into this type.
In addition to that, I’d say the two most important rules for writing a villain is to (a) make sure he’s the best person possible to challenge your protagonist (stealing this rule shamelessly from Robert McKee’s Story) and (b) make him a complex blend of humanity and villainy. The best villains are those who are clearly evil yet also deeply sympathetic.
Editor-in-Chief Emeritus. Guiding authors at Story Embers.
Um… Okay. Thinking.
Luke Castellan from Rick Riordan’s Percy Jackson sereies–Luke is ruthless, but he’s also a devious little trickster. He had a believable motive, and his character developed well over time.
Paragor from Wayne Thomas Battson’s Door Within series: Paragor is just plain scary. He also has a backstory that reflects the fall of Lucifer from heaven. I don’t think he actually appears until the third book, though.
Also…Moriarty from Sherlock. He’s crazy. And awesome. He’s such a complicated character!
@graciegirl Those are my favorite villains. I’m not sure I’m cut out to answer your other questions.Writer. Dreamer. Sometimes blogger. MBTI mess. Lover of Jesus and books.
@dragon-snapper I forgot about Conner! Yes, he was a most satisfactory antagonist. And Mother Gothel, yeah, gotta love her them song! It’s so much fun. 😀 I really liked her as a bad guy too, I actually felt disappointed when she died. 🙁
Anyway, thanks for bringing these specimens to my attention! *rubs hands together evilly* 😉
*is probably geeking out about something*
@graciegirl Some of the most interesting villains (and the most dangerous) are the ones who honestly believe what they are doing is right and they are willing to sacrifice for their convictions. A villain who is off for revenge is all very well. A villain who is fighting for something he loves will be even more dedicated. Plus it is heartbreaking and has great thematic possiblities. 😉
INTJ - Inhumane. No-feelings. Terrible. Judgment and doom on everyone.
@That_Writer_Girl_99 Luke did have some good moments. I especially loved the twist where he was the hero in the prophecy. It put a fun spin on things. 😀
I haven’t read the Door Within series, but that is an interesting idea to study the origins of Satan and find the basis of evil.
Ah! Yes, Moriarty! He is one of my favorite villains of all time. I’ve actually tried to make Z (my antagonist) have a charm along the same lines. But I was always bothered by Jim’s lack of motive. I never saw any reason for his villainy beyond being bored and a bit of a psychopath. (Yes, I did my research 😉 ) Anyway, I tried to get Z like that, and it didn’t end very well. My plot wouldn’t accept it. *sighs* Perhaps another story…..
Thx for your thoughts on the subject!*is probably geeking out about something*
@Hope I think that may be where I’m working against myself. I have several plausible things for Z to believe in, and thus, plenty of motives, but because I don’t condone the extremes he will go to to achieve these goals, I have a hard time viewing his motives as believable. I’ve realized that I rely heavily on being able to relate to my characters, and (luckily, I suppose) I have a really hard time relating to Z. XD
Heartbreaking while relating to theme is the stuff of reader dreams, isn’t it? And it’s definitely something I’d love to strive for. With that in mind, I probably need to take a step back and reevaluate Z from head to toe. Thank you for the advice!*is probably geeking out about something*
@dragon-snapper Yep, that was @hope alright! She’s a pretty good writer. 😉 😀
@that_writer_girl_99 MORIARTY!!! YESSSS!!! I can’t believe I forgot about him. He is the best. Also, Charles Muntz from Up. He’s dedicated head to toe in the purpose of clearing his name, but he has a soft spot for his dogs. I loved the fact that he didn’t start out as a villain and he didn’t have a single sworn enemy. He wasn’t after revenge. In fact, I agree with his motives, just not his means. 😛 If a person’s name is falsely soiled they’ll obviously want to do everything in their power to clear it. This made Muntz a very relate-able character. 😀
@graciegirl Glad we could help! Can’t wait to see how Z turns out! 😀"Courage is action in spite of fear."
@Aratrea Zikers! Thanks for the rundown. 😀
I’ve noticed that there seems to be distinct types of ‘basic’ villains, but I’ve never been able to put my finger on the differences. It is very helpful to have it all explained so clearly.
Right now, Z (unfortunately) sounds like a tester, but from those descriptions, I like the sound of a tempter best. I think I could prod him in that direction. If, at his core, Z wants to protect someone or a group of people dear to him, I could easily have my protagonist relate to him on that level. She would do anything to keep her friends safe, from both physical and emotional hurt. Hmmm. The cogs of creativity grind once again. :p
I also have the second in command. He sounds like a foil, but he will eventually join the ‘good guys’ so I guess he’s not complete in the sense that he failed his character arc. Or he did fail, but had a Redemption Arc later on. Is that possible?Thx again!
*is probably geeking out about something*
@graciegirl Yes; you can definitely have characters who initially fails a character arc but later achieves it. We’ll actually be publishing an article sometime next month by @sierra-r that will be touching on how to do that effectively. 🙂
Editor-in-Chief Emeritus. Guiding authors at Story Embers.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.