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Hi guys!
I had a question about publishing and thought I’d post it here.
So, I’ve heard that agents frown upon debut authors sending full-on 120k or even 100k word long novels. It does cost a lot of money to publish books, and agents don’t want to take such a big chance on someone the book world hasn’t heard of before.
So I was wondering, is it a good idea to try to publish something smaller, like a novella, first? Like, is it wiser to submit a novella to an agent, and if you succeed in publishing that novella, will it increase your likelihood of getting an agent to publish a big novel?
I hope you understand my question. Not sure if I worded it to make sense, but if anyone understands and knows about this stuff, I’d appreciate some tips!
Thanks!
Joy Caroline
@joy-caroline I don’t know anything, but I was also thinking about this, and I think I’m gonna try to publish a 30k work before a 180k work. Hopefully someone else can provide some insight!
Lately, it's been on my brain
Would you mind letting me know
If hours don't turn into days@joy-caroline I’m afraid I can’t help you there. First off I’m not exactly well-versed in publishing at all. And secondly I’m going to be self publishing so I’m not sure about traditional publishing. I have heard Though that traditional publishers usually won’t publish a series at least not right off. Because most decide if the first has series potential before making it into a series. Although you can tell them if you’re trying to make a series that you think it does have serious potential. And I’m sure there’s some traditional publishers out there who will do that.
Also due to all the Covid stuff going on I’ve also heard that traditional publishing has slow down even more than it was before so if it all possible unless you just have your heart set on it I totally look into self publishing
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I’m glad to hear that’s a question you have as well! I was wondering if it made sense.
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Yes, I think it makes a lot of sense that publishers wouldn’t want to invest in a series unless they’re absolutely sure it’s good. Thanks for the insight on that.
It’s good that you have a goal for yourself, I commend you on that! It’s totally okay if you don’t want to take the traditional publishing route. For me, it’s my dream to get my books traditionally published, so that’s what I’m pursuing. But I totally have respect for the self-publishers out there!
@joy-caroline Well you go for it!!
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@joy-caroline (and @devastate-lasting) I’m so glad to hear that you’re pursuing publication! Of course, I’m probably the biggest advocate for self-publishing out there, but I do have a wee bit of experience with traditional publishing.
In answer to your question, I would definitely start with something small. Not only would that *probably* help you land an agent, it would also build your reputation and readership before you debut your novel. I would venture to say that most authors started out this way, although some of the bigger ones just dove right in. They would be the exception.
Here’s the thing, though. Novellas don’t sell as well as novels, on the market and to publishers. If you did a novella collection, you might have something going for you. But most agents and publishers don’t want to sign with someone who’s only bringing a small work to the table. I would go for a shorter novel (50-75k) rather than a novella or a longer (100k+) novel.
In the end, it’s not the size of the work that matters. It’s how marketable the material is. Some writers can sell novels more than 200k words, while others can make it with short stories. Why? Because of what they’re writing. It’s the quality, not the quantity, that counts. Likewise, some authors only publish one or two novels (like Margaret Mitchell, for example), but go on to become legends because of what those one or two novels were.
If you can pitch a book that’s unique in tone but similar to other works, enough to already have a reader basis but to generate new thoughts and opinions, that is well-written and thoroughly edited, you’ve got a great chance of getting picked up by an agent. But if your book leans too much to one side or the other, then you’ve got a problem. It’s less the size of the book that costs money and more how many people would buy it, regardless. If it’s too unique, no publisher will take a chance on it because they don’t know if readers would. If it’s too similar to other books, publishers will be sure that readers will automatically stereotype it as a “This Popular Book” rip-off. You’ve got the find the balance. Once you do that, you’ve got to find the bait. Find what makes it relatable to readers and intriguing to agents/publishers. Once they’re hooked, length won’t matter. They’ll know people will buy it because of the content, thereby paying for the printing cost.
In the series realm (gonna throw in @godlyfantasy12 here), the best thing to do is publish a standalone novel or a novel with a sequel *possibly* in the works (something that could work as a series or a standalone, depending upon its success) before publishing a series. Once you’ve generated readers, reviews, and a reputation, you can move onto something bigger. I didn’t do this–even though I probably should–but I self-published my series, so it should catch on.
As for self-publishing, I understand you, Joy, don’t want to go that route…but I would like to make a suggestion. Start by self-publishing short stories, novellas, short novels, etc., and see what happens. Generate a readership. Get reviews (even the negative ones count). Market your book(s) until you can’t market them anymore. Watch as you grow exponentially until the point that agents want to reach out to you. Get a foundation and readers who will follow you before you embark upon the traditional publishing journey. I know a few authors who have done this or plan to (I’m one of them, partially). Best-selling author Roseanna M. White self-published her first novel in her basement with her own newborn publishing company. Now, she’s published multiple novels through Bethany House and has published books by popular writers like Melody Carlson through her own company. Several of my favorite authors (who are also best-sellers and award-winners) have actually started shifting into the self-publishing stream after years of traditional publication.
Just a suggestion! The traditional publication route can take years. If you have stories you want to tell now, self-publishing would be a great way to do so!
Anyway, I hope that helps! Let me know if y’all have any more questions!
@gracie-j Hmmm…thanks for your input! What would you define as a novella collection, and how would I query it? I’ve read somewhere that if you want to query a short story collection usually you have to have a novel out first. Should I work on my 70-80k work then and try to get that out first?
Oof…having similar content, haha…I don’t read enough to know what’s all the rage these days. I only write and hope that it’s distinct.
I have tons of webnovel ideas that I’ll probably get to working on this summer…I’m hoping that if I sign one deal with Webnovel (even though it’ll mean I’ll sell my rights to that work) I’ll be able to hit it big. And then perhaps publishers will want to see my stuff.
Ah, that was my plan before I got ideas for shorter length novels/novellas that I want to try my hand at traditional publishing. I’ll probably be working on those this year, maybe start querying next year since I’ll be out of school by then?
I mean, I don’t mind waiting, as I’ll be continuously writing (hopefully) throughout all that time…
I really don’t know. I guess I’ll keep on working and praying about. Thanks for your insight, by the way!
Lately, it's been on my brain
Would you mind letting me know
If hours don't turn into days- Rank: Eccentric Mentor
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@gracie-j
Oh my goodness!! Thank you SO much!!! So much wisdom in this reply XD
You’re totally right about those authors that become so famous just because of one incredible work! My favorite fiction book is To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee, which is the only book she ever published (except for Go Set a Watchman, which was the first draft she wrote of Mockingbird before changing the plot entirely), but which skyrocketed her to the status of a legend because that book is INCREDIBLE! I mean, it’s won so many awards, including the Pulitzer Prize.
Thank you so much for all the tips! I will take your advice to heart. Ooh, you’ve self-published a series? May I ask what it’s called?
I actually have an idea for a novella, which is why I used that as an example. The novella is actually connected to my novel WIP, The Apostle’s Sister. It would tell a later portion of the novel, towards the climax. I wanted to tell it from the perspective of Paul’s youngest nephew, his sister’s adoptive son, because he quickly became one of my favorite characters to write about in the novel. I actually wrote a few words of the novella and have lots of ideas for scenes, and was getting kind of excited. I first got the idea because I thought it would help me with the character development for the novel, which I’ve been kind of struggling with. I find that writing from the perspective of someone other than the protagonist really helps me.
Anyway, the novella would center around the climatic events of The Apostle’s Sister, and would include scenes the novel didn’t. Though it would include a lot of scenes from the novel, just from the nephew’s perspective instead of the sister’s. He’s seven years old during the events of the climax, and I find writing from a child’s point of view really enlightening. I wrote a narrative poem from his perspective and it inspired me, which is how the novella idea was born.
So basically this novella idea was just something I originally wanted to do to help me with the novel. I wasn’t planning on showing the novella to anyone, but then I started thinking about potentially publishing it. If I can’t get it traditionally published, I could take your advice and self-publish it. I was wondering if I built a group of readers who enjoyed the nephew’s story, people would be more interested in reading the 120k novel from the sister’s perspective. Then maybe that would get an agent more interested in taking a look at the 120k manuscript.
But those are just thoughts. It’s pretty likely I’ll just write the novella as practice for myself and not publish it at all. I thought of maybe sending it off just for kicks, hoping it would generate more interest in The Apostle’s Sister. But if it won’t improve my chances, I’ll just write it for myself.
Again, thanks for the tips! Everything was so helpful!
@joy-caroline Well, u know some ppl write books, and then create novellas or short stories for other characters within those! Like the nephew in ur book! So u could definitely do that!
Honestly, I’m not very skilled in publishing, but imo I’d prefer to publish the book before a novella from someone else’s POV (because it’s literally related to and following some of the same story) does that make sense? But that’s just me. I suggest doing some research and seek out some ppl who can help u.
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True! Maybe what I should do is just hang on to the novella, and then it would probably have a better chance if I succeed in publishing the novel first.
Thanks for the tips!
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@devastate-lasting You’re welcome!
My definition of a novella collection would be three or more novellas in one book–usually tied together with similar characters or setting.
Yeah, I would definitely go with your 70-80k work. That’s the average length and probably the easiest to sell.
Actually, signing with Webnovel first sounds like a great way to get started! That should really give you a boost into the publishing eye, if you know what I mean.
Also, another great idea! Definitely keep praying about it, though. Let God guide you, because–trust me–He always knows the best way! Sometimes you won’t even see it until He’s led you there.
@joy-caroline I’m glad I could help!!
My series is called the Daughters of the Seven Seas–and I’m on book three so far. You can check it out here. (Maybe the link will work…)
First of all, having a novella from the nephew’s POV sounds like a great idea! If you were self-publishing The Apostle’s Sister, I’d tell you to publish the novella not long after (or maybe just before). However, since you want to traditionally publish TAS, none of that sounds plausible. Why? Because once you traditionally publish something, that company has ALL the rights to that book, characters, settings, all of it. You can’t publish (traditionally or self) anything else connected to that book without their permission. That’s one of the main reasons why I went with self-publishing, because I could change my book or add more to it however I wanted.
If you self-pubbed the novella before you started querying for TAS, you might be able to pull it off. The company would probably want to acquire the rights to the novella too, and I don’t know what they’d do with then.
I definitely think the novella would improve your chances of people buying TAS. But throwing traditional publication into the mix puts all of that in question. Not whether or not people would read it, but whether or not anyone would want to publish it.
If you don’t have a problem keeping the novella to yourself, then that’s probably the best thing do to until you’re talking things over with an agent or publisher. If they like the idea of the novella, they may acquire the rights to it or *possibly* let you do with it whatever you want. If not, it can be just for your own pleasure!
@godlyfantasy12 If Joy were going with self-publishing, I would definitely say throwing in the novella may a little bit after she published TAS would be great! It’d be like an extra gift to the TAS readers who already are familiar with the characters. If she did it before, however, it could probably reel in a lot of readers. But since she’s doing trad, I don’t know how all of that would work.In my case, I have two novels and a short story in between them. It kind of bridges the gap between the two novels and shows a crucial scene I thought people should see. It didn’t fit in with the novels themselves, so now it’s just an extra short story! I also have a novella that’s kind of a spin-off of my first novel. It shows another perspective of something that happens in my second book, and then opens up a companion/prequel series I have plans for.
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@gracie-j
Thanks! This has all been so helpful! I looked at your book series, by the way. When did you publish it?
I’m really grateful for all the advice. I will definitely take all of this into account. I think I’m going to start doing research on traditional publishing because I realized I really don’t know too much 😂 And I guess it doesn’t hurt to educate myself on it, even though my novel is far from being ready to send out.
Again, thanks SO much!
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@gracie-j
Oh, and by the way, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of Stephanie Morrill? When she wrote her debut novel, Me, Just Different, the publisher requested that she make it a series. So it’s a trilogy. Later she published a novella from another character’s POV, but I believe she just posted it for free on her site because readers were curious about that character’s future.
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@joy-caroline I was happy to help!
I published the first book in March of 2019 and the second in November 2019. Book 3, Bound and Determined, *should* come out sometime in the late summer or fall of this year.
Yeah, definitely research more than anything else! And maybe ask some authors who have been traditionally or self-published, just to see what they’ve learned about it all.
Actually, I have heard of Stephanie Morrill! I read her newest book, Within These Lines, about a year ago, and I’ve heard about her series. There may be publishers who would publish the novella too, but I guess it just depends. You could probably publish it on your website or blog without any copyright issues, though.
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