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Dear fellow KPers- I have noticed that the use of magic and fantasy by Christian authors seems to be accepted in this writing community. I haven’t wanted to say anything, but I have been seeing more and more magic and fantasy on here. When I first discovered Kingdom Pen, I was so excited to find a community of believers who also wanted to write for Christ. But somehow, it seems that the focus has turned to how much darkness we can get away with in our stories. Yes, there is evil in the world and we should address it, but in the right way. We are supposed to write in the light. For the Kingdom. Which Kingdom are we glorifying when we include creatures of darkness like vampires, zombies, werewolves, witches, wizards, sorcerers, magicians, ghosts, elves, mermaids, aliens, and fairy dragons in our stories? I fear that, instead of exposing and destroying the evil, we are giving it strength by presenting it as harmless fantasy.
If we think the above-mentioned creatures are harmless, then we are deceived. We are dabbling in witchcraft when we play around with them in our stories. We are told not to touch the unclean thing in 2 Corinthians 6. Unclean there literally means “impure or demonic.” The roots of these creatures are purely evil and demonic. I will use Tolkien as an example. Tolkien drew many of the creatures in his writings from the ancient legends of the Saxons, Welsh, Norse, Germans, and other peoples. These legends were full of witchcraft, and were based in the terrible reality that existed before Christianity brought light to those nations. The creatures he (and many other fantasy writers) used are based on creatures that were very real, evil, and terrifying. When we use these creatures, when we imagine about and meditate on them, we are entering an evil realm that is extremely dangerous. We open ourselves up to the demonic realm. Some of these creatures were manifestations of the nephillim, and of the fallen angels that “came unto the daughters of men” in Noah’s time. These evil spirits still exist, and when we present their physical manifestations as harmless or fantasy we aid and abet the king of darkness and his purposes. We shouldn’t try to change these creatures and make them good. God has ordained what is good, and what is evil. We don’t have the authority to take something from the realm of evil, and make it good.
If we are going to write about these creatures, it should be with the higher purpose of educating our readers about the truth, not for the purpose of entertaining them. Jesus said “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father, but by Me.” Are we bringing our readers to the Father through the Truth that is in Christ Jesus? Darkness and deception is permeating our society. Is this a time merely to entertain and provide escape from the world around us? Or is it a time to build up and prepare this generation for the very real spiritual battle that is before us through fiction that focuses on the reality of the supernatural realm and portrays how to effectively fight and overcome these very real spiritual forces? Frank Peretti’s book This Present Darkness is an excellent example of a fiction story that still accurately portrays the truth of the supernatural realm and the spiritual battle around us.
I believe that there is a distinction between fantasy and supernatural fiction that abides by the laws of God. Good fiction stays within the world that God created and abides by His laws. It shows the reality of sin and the wonder of redemption through Jesus. Fantasy is a perversion of reality; a mixture of truth and deception. It takes place in a world that is said to be unreal, but it has many real and evil elements woven into it. The author can redefine good and evil, rename witchcraft and call it good, and even create his/her own god- which things are expressly forbidden in the Bible. We are called to purity and holiness. How can we be pure vessels for God if our minds are filled with perversion? Yes, our modern world is obsessed with fantasy, but we aren’t supposed to be like the world. We are supposed to live and write by a much higher standard. If the secular world is obsessed with something, that’s usually a pretty good indicator that it is either a) propagated by Satan, or b) not a threat to him.
Has anyone besides me noticed that fantasy is addictive? My best friend was obsessed with the Chronicles of Narnia so strongly that it scared her parents. Another friend was similarly affected by the Twilight movies. To some teenagers I know, fantasy things like “the zombie apocalypse” are more real than the actual apocalypse. I have also seen this obsession with The Lord Of The Rings and Star Wars. This is because there are demonic strongholds attached to these fantasy stories that draw people to them. There are demons attached to the different creatures in these stories, and when a person meditates on one of these creatures, or focuses on an image of it, they make a connection in the spirit realm with the demon attached to it. I know it’s not comfortable to think about this stuff, and it’s easier to remain in happy ignorance, but we aren’t here on this earth to live comfortable lives. We are here to fight. When we gave our lives to Christ, we gave away our right to live life however we want and we became soldiers in a deadly war that’s been raging between God and Satan for 6000 years. If we remain ignorant of Satan’s tactics, we won’t be able to effectively fight him.
“As [a man] thinketh in his heart, so is he.” We are conformed to what we meditate and focus on. We are supposed to focus on the Lord and become like Him: “And we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into that same image…” But if we focus on something else, we can become like it- and if that something has a demon attached to it, the results can be frightening. Our thoughts and imaginations are powerful. That’s why Paul says to take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. We are made in the image of God, and our thoughts have the power to create. When we imagine something, we are bringing it into reality in the spirit realm. What are we creating with our imaginations? Is what we’re creating in the realm of Light or Darkness? There’s no neutral realm, you know. There’s no place where we can create whatever we want, and God’s rules don’t apply. If we are writing outside of the Light and the Truth, then we are writing in the dark. There is no middle ground. There is no such place as the world of make-believe. We are not entering a world that doesn’t exist when we enter the world of fantasy. We are creating a reality in the spirit realm, and if we create something in the realm of darkness the enemy will inhabit it and use it. Our imagination is a wonderful gift from God, designed to be used for His glory. How can we think it’s okay to use our God-given imagination to create a world totally apart from Him? Apart from His laws? Apart from His love and His plan of redemption? How can we create our own laws? Our own definition of right and wrong; good and evil? Our own god? And, having done this, how can we claim that we are writing for Him? God sees our imaginations. He sent the Flood because “every imagination of the thoughts of [man’s] heart was only evil continually.” Our thoughts and imaginations matter more than we think.
Every word that we speak or write we will be held accountable for on the day of judgment. We will also be held accountable for the people we have led astray. Jesus said “whoso shall offend (trip up, cause to stumble) one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Every writer knows how powerful words are, and with power comes responsibility. We don’t just affect ourselves when we write; we affect our readers. If a book we write has a demon attached to it, and a child reads it, we will be held responsible for the result. I have to take that seriously. I have seen too many children whose minds have been messed up through fantasy books, movies, and video games. I do not want to write a book that Satan can use to destroy a child’s soul. None of us do. But if you use a demonic creature or power in your story, a demon will latch onto it, whether you want it to or not.
Speaking of power, I believe it is very wrong to use magic in our writing. Supernatural power can only come from God or Satan. Magic is supernatural power derived from the dark side. It is evil, and we are commanded not to use it or have anything to do with it. The idea that it is an impartial force, which can be used for good or evil, is a lie. The idea that it is hereditary is a twisted perversion of the truth that demonic strongholds can be passed on through generational curses. There is no such thing as “white” magic or “white” witchcraft. Just because a character is using magic in a “fantasy world” does not make it right. Where is the character really doing it? In our mind. Our mind is subject to the laws of God, and we are commanded to love God with all of our mind. It is not okay to play around with witchcraft in our mind. When we do that, we are giving our minds over to Satan. And that is wrong.
I know this is hard to hear. Please know that I am not trying to sound judgmental or anything, but that I really am concerned about our writing and how it will impact others. I know this may not go over very well, but I’m only saying it because I really do love you all.
Hi @sarah-h, I think this would be a good subject to bring to @reaganramm. If you have something that is really burdening you, please take it to the KP leadership.
I’m not going to go into all the minor details of what you said (which was a lot!). Personally, that’s just too much for me to discuss. Personally, I don’t write either fantasy or anteing with magic, but the topic interests me. There are a couple things that caught my attention that I wanted to pull out.
I had several questions to ask you about where you were coming from in this argument since it seemed like you assumed that we had a similar background by your logic, but that is making an assumption. I deleted them though. I want to see you talk this over with the leadership before we open it up to the forum.
By the way, part of the reason you are probably seeing a lot of talk about darkness is because that is the month’s theme (not darkness itself, but how to approach it, what it is, etc.). It is not something we’re obsessed with.
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These are all very valid questions, Sarah, and I know it can’t have been easy for you to speak out. I admire that.
Let me make a quick statement as to where I stand. I write fantasy. There is magic in my work. I love the Lord of the Rings, The Chronicles of Narnia, and Star Wars— though there are certainly elements of Star Wars I strongly disagree with. I think fantasy is the perfect medium in which to write for Christ, far surpassing many other genres, and even though— as with all genres— fantasy can be done badly and promote the wrong things, done well and to promote the right things it can be extremely powerful.
Now this is going to be a very long discussion, and I don’t want to try and address it all in one post or people are going to fall asleep reading it. 😛 So let’s try and go about this in an orderly fashion, point by point.
And let’s start at the beginning. You seem to be saying that you disagree with fantasy simply because it takes place in an imaginary world and oftentimes has an imaginary creator. Quick question for you here— do you read allegory? Or do you believe allegory is wrong?
Assuming you do read allegory, why is it right to make a God figure in allegory but not in fantasy? Fantasy (indeed any story, when you think about it) is allegorical, even though it may not strictly be ‘an allegory’. Because it is a picture of our world, and our God, and the struggles we face in our world as fallen humans.
Now, if you take a fantasy and give it a pagan god, yes, obviously that’s bad. But to create a shadow of our own world and a shadow of our own Savior as a representation in an imaginary world is allegory— it is a picture, it is something we know set in a new setting so we can see it clearer, without all the gloss and ho-hum-ness with which we have been accustomed to see it because we know it so well.I think that’s the beginning of the discussion. There are a lot of points you brought up, and I want to get to them in time, but I think we need to take this from the foundation up or it’s going to become a mess.
Oh, and you said
But somehow, it seems that the focus has turned to how much darkness we can get away with in our stories.
I don’t think it’s been that. I know it hasn’t been that for me, and I’ve asked a ton of the questions regarding darkness. It’s been ‘where do we draw the line?’, not ‘how much can I get away with’. We need to discuss this stuff because it’s very, very important to know where we stand— so we discuss it a lot.
And the use of darkness can be summed up very handily in one simile.
It’s like a painting. There is no meaning in a painting that is wholly light, with no shadows or even sub-shadows. A person will look at such a painting and find it utterly insipid, and learn nothing from it whatsoever.
The shadows are there to teach us that the light is there also. The darkness is there so we can see the stars. The night comes so we can rejoice in the sun when it rises again.
The deeper the shadows, the brighter the light will shine forth.You and I were posting at the same time, Daeus! 🙂 I don’t think this is necessarily a problem for leadership only, though it would be good to talk to them, certainly.
I’m not very wise, and certainly still learning, but I would love to discuss this with Sarah and I think it’s a good thing to have these discussions where people who may be struggling with the same thing can read them.
And I meant to ask you, Sarah, have you read any of the books or seen any of the movies you condemned? Because it sounds like you’re lumping Narnia and LotR in with Star Wars, which is a mistake. Star Wars has some very humanistic themes and messages and a lot of non-Christian doctrines when it comes to the ‘fantasy’ part of it, but Narnia and LotR are very very very Christian stories. Narnia is basically the ultimate allegory, and LotR, though not an allegory, is jam-packed with Christian lessons and messages and pictures. I think you may be using fantasy’s ‘bad name’ according to Christian Tradition to condemn all fantasy, which isn’t a good idea at all and isn’t even logical.
Hi @kate-flournoy and @sarah-h,
I need to clarify that this is a great topic and worthy of contemplation and discussion. The reason I suggested it be taken to reagan first is because:
1. While what is published and talked about on KP is not necessarily in perfect alignment with the views of the KP staff, they have certainly tolerated fantasy. What Sarah’s very concern is is that fantasy is being tolerated. She thinks that this is a great peril that needs to be exposed. What this means is that the very system by which KP operates is disturbing to her. That is perfectly legitimate, but it is not our issue. It is not our place to criticize KP publicly. I’m sure this wasn’t your intention Sarah 🙂
2. I think this could be a very emotional topic, and it would be good for us all to have some down time and good contemplation before we begin to discuss it.🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢
Oh! Okay. Gotcha, @Daeus. I agree. 🙂
Man, I just realized that my first comment has terrible flow. Sorry if it is confusing. I changed it around a lot before I submitted it, and I forgot to give it a proof read first.
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Haha! No problem… I understood it okay. 😛
*sigh* The inner author makes slaves of us all.
@Daeus, I really do want to discuss this on the forum. I’m not asking the staff to ban fantasy. I want to share my concerns with the other subscribers.
@Kate Flournoy, that’s a good point about allegory. I’ve been struggling with that question, because I beta read Hope Schmidt’s allegory King’s Armor yesterday, and I thought it was really good. I guess the problem I have with fantasy, as opposed to allegory, is the witchcrafty stuff in it. The dictionary definition of fantasy is, “A genre of imaginative fiction involving magic and adventure, especially in a setting other than the real world.” So, to me, there is a difference between fantasy and pure allegory. I do agree that there is a right way to do imaginative fiction. This is kind of hard to explain, because I’ve never put it into words before, but I believe there is a difference between portraying God in an allegory and creating your own God. Did you read King’s Armor? Hope portrayed Jesus a little differently, but she didn’t change His nature.
But somehow, it seems that the focus has turned to how much darkness we can get away with in our stories.
I actually was not referring to the theme of the month. Maybe I should have clarified that. I was referring to the discussions we’ve had about vampires, zombies, and werewolves over the past few months.
Have I watched or read those things? Honestly, my parents prayed about it, and the Lord told them to keep us (my siblings and I) away from it. I know C. S. Lewis and Tolkien were Christians, but there are demonic spirits attached to those stories.
This is kind of hard to explain, because I’ve never put it into words before, but I believe there is a difference between portraying God in an allegory and creating your own God. Did you read King’s Armor? Hope portrayed Jesus a little differently, but she didn’t change His nature.
There is no difference to my thinking, because you’re not really creating your own god. You are copying ours— so long as you stay true to his nature, which you should. That’s what I said— no pagan gods. Those don’t work in a Christian story, unless you’re using it to showcase all the problems with paganism. So stay true to the nature of God.
And yes, I did read King’s Armor— excellent. 🙂
Also I notice you’ve said a LOT that writings about demonic creatures ‘have demonic spirits attached to them’, and that by reading about demonic creatures we expose ourselves to demons and to Satan. I don’t agree, but let’s say for a moment I’m conceding the point. Let’s say for a moment you and I are of one mind on this subject.
Then I think we need to stop reading the Bible. The Bible has demons in it— very raw and obvious demons, and not just to tell us how to defeat them either.
1 Samuel 28 is basically a live scene of a witch calling up a dead spirit— witchcraft in it’s rawest, most obvious, and wicked form. So since we are agreeing that these things have demons attached to them, and that reading them is inviting demons into our life, we should not read this passage or any of the passages having to do with witchcraft or demons.
And it’s not just that passage either. The apostles dealt with sorcerers. There are scenes of demon possessed men, scenes of demon possessed children, scenes of demon possessed pigs. We become very raw and personal in Job, which begins with a conversation between God and Satan.God either was wrong to place those things there or was trying to expose us to demons.
Now I know that’s not what you meant to say. But that’s where the argument leads.
I think you may be assigning Satan far more power than he actually has. Above all, Satan hates God’s light. When we shine that light on him and all his doings, there is nowhere for him to hide. When we are cowed and timid and afraid to speak of demonic things, or write of demonic things and show them for what twisted, hideous blackness they are, we grant Satan asylum in our fear.
I certainly grant you that many, many fantasies glorify that blackness, with witchcraft promoted and good guys using black magic. (The magic thing is a different question entirely, which I think we’ll get to in a bit). So fantasy, even above many, many other genres, certainly has the very great potential to harm if done badly or with bad intent. But fantasy itself is not wicked any more than allegory is wicked, done from a Christian perspective.
Hopefully that has some kind of coherence! 😛 😉
I think you may be assigning Satan far more power than he actually has. Above all, Satan hates God’s light. When we shine that light on him and all his doings, there is nowhere for him to hide. When we are cowed and timid and afraid to speak of demonic things, or write of demonic things and show them for what twisted, hideous blackness they are, we grant Satan asylum in our fear.
I (Me, myself, who I am) think (My opinion, not necessarily correct) That we need the dark creatures.
Why?
some day, at noon when the sun is out, flip on your lights. What happens?
Even if you flip on all of them the room will not be much brighter.
Now, it is dark out (When I am writing this at least.) If I were to go outside and light a match, what will happen.
It’ll get quite a bit brighter.I think we need the dark to contrast with the light.
IMHO most Christian writers are too squeamish and do not put in enough dark. Most secular writers are not, but they hate the light! (Jesus himself said that.) So we have dark books, and bright books, that I find preachy.
What is better? The light.
What do we need? The light.
How can we see how “wonderful and warm, so beautiful and bright” the light is?The dark.
We need dark. We need the contrast.
To give a message, we need both.
All our writing needs to have a message. Am I correct?You are correct.
@Kate, I’m glad you agree that we shouldn’t change God’s nature. But if, in our stories, we make God call something good which in reality He calls evil, then we are changing His nature. We are creating our own god. We do change His nature when we say He empowers werewolves or creates magical powers. You see, there is a fundamental difference between God’s power and magic. When we develop a close relationship with God, then He is able to use His power through us. But it is He, not us, that controls it. It is always His power; not ours. That’s why we pray, “Thine is the kingdom, and the power…” This is different from magic. In the book of Acts, there was a sorcerer named Simon who thought that the Holy Spirit was a power like magic that he could purchase with money and use at will. He was wrong. Magic is witchcraft. It is evil. Incantations, spells, wand waving, etc. are witchcraft. I read your debate with Rosey on the “no such thing as magic” thread, and I can’t say I agree with what you said there. We are dabbling in the occult when we have our protagonists use “good magic,” because there is no such thing as good magic. Don’t you see? There is no such place as “fantasyland”, where we can do whatever we want and ignore God’s laws. We are supposed to submit our minds completely to the Lord Jesus. Magic is in the enemy’s territory; it is something which God condemns. We can expose it, but we must not play with it.
Of course we should expose evil, but we must not confuse evil with good. For example, werewolves are evil. If we present them as good, or as the hero of the story, we are presenting a lie which Satan will latch onto and use, since he is the father of lies. Elves and fairies are evil. If we present them as good and cute and harmless, we are presenting a lie which Satan will use. Wizards are evil. So are witches, warlocks, magicians, vampires, etc. etc.. We must not present them or their powers as good. We must present the truth about them. Satan will not latch onto the truth; he is terrified of it. The last thing he wants is to be exposed. Furthermore, when we expose evil, we must be careful to show the right way to combat it. Our characters should not combat “bad magic” with “good magic”, because that is still a lie.
I hope it didn’t seem like I wanted to suppress this topic. It is perfectly fine to talk about it on the forum. I understand that you aren’t trying to get KP to ban fantasy. I didn’t think so. Still, you seem to have a problem with the care free way they have approached something very disturbing to you. I would still suggest you bring it up with them, not to try to revolutionize their system, but just to make sure you understand how each other feel and why you approach things the way you do. I am very sensitive about internet relations. They are the most fragile of all relationships by far. It is so much easier to misinterpret someone when you can’t see them or hear their voice. Even some of the nicest people do it. Let’s just take things worse case and see what could happen. For one, KP could mistake your purpose and think that you were trying to turn people against them behind their backs. Now this may seem ridiculous and I’m sure it is, but if you think such a misunderstanding is impossible, just look to your own life, or ask those around you. So many people have been hurt by an internet or email message that wasn’t even intended to be harmful at all. So many people have written such messages with good intentions only to find to their horror that they ruined a friendship. That is why it is so important to make sure you are on a good understanding with all parties you may be concerned through computerized messaging and to take as many precautions as possible. Do you see what I mean?
Since this topic already seems to be on a roll, I see no reason why you should stop it. Keep going. KPers have a good reputation with handling controversial topics in a christ like manner. I just wanted to make sure you understood why I suggest such a strict communications protocol.
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I do see what you’re saying, Sarah, but unfortunately I still find myself on the opposing side.
I don’t think it’s going against the nature of God at all to have fantastical creatures or your scorned ‘fantasyland’. What are they but created creatures, created to people a world different than ours? They would still be created by a supreme creator, as in our world, regardless of what they look like, or what different characteristics they may have— extremely long life, for example, or pointed ears, or even immortality.
Even if the natural created laws of that fantasyland included a system of ‘magic’, it may be different, but it’s not a lie. It’s not deceptive. It’s not dabbling in the occult.It’s not what it is— it’s where it comes from.
Or are you saying that anything different than our world is evil? Are you saying it is a lie to imagine different worlds, peopled with different creatures, that work under different laws than our own?
To stay true to the nature of God is to accurately represent the way He views love and forgiveness and sin— the spiritual things, the values that define both God and Christianity. There is absolutely nothing about having different creatures or different natural laws in a different world that goes against those values.
You said also
Furthermore, when we expose evil, we must be careful to show the right way to combat it. Our characters should not combat “bad magic” with “good magic”, because that is still a lie.
Okay… but I’m not writing a technical treatise on spiritual warfare. I’m writing to show light defeating darkness. If light and darkness can be represented and portrayed so easily and clearly using magic, why should we disregard such a powerful literary weapon?
It’s not going to convince anyone they can go out and defeat darkness using magic— but the point is to show them that light wins over darkness, even if you’re using as your springboard an imaginary world, an imaginary creator, with imaginary creatures, and imaginary ‘magic’.If a reader can see light and darkness clearly represented in two sides of an opposing ‘magic’ the theme will be much, much clearer and easily understood.
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