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All right, here I am again! For those of you who didn’t see the start of this discussion, please see ‘Start Here’… silly me accidentally began a general writing discussion where we were only supposed to introduce ourselves. 🙂 My apologies.
So… symbols. When I said symbols, I was speaking more of general, universal symbols that everyone knows about and understands, or really small, simple ones that appear for a scene and then fade. A good example of the first kind is the sunrise— you have your character see a sunrise just after some devastating loss, and it reminds the character and the reader alike that there is still hope, and that the sun will go on rising and setting regardless of who wins what wars or whatever. There are so many of those kinds of symbols I’m not even going to try to list them, but they can be used for negative affect (such as rain, or nightfall, or some other depressing thing right before your character is about to be thrown into the test of his life, or something like that) as well as to bring out positive thoughts.
A good example of the latter kind I mentioned would be a flower, growing up out of the ashes of a ruined city, or some other scene of devastation, or maybe a crocus poking its head through the snow into the pale winter sunlight. You don’t really have to think very far to realize that this is symbolic of new life, new hope— all things new and fresh and beautiful. I like using this kind of symbol best, even though I usually make myself cry that way… sorry, I can be a really emotional person. 😉
On the kind of symbols you ‘invent’, as it were, the most prominent one that comes to mind is the Ring, from LOTR, and yes, you are right— it does take a long book for the reader to get the menace or the beauty or whatever symbolism some symbol represents stuck firmly in their heads. I haven’t done any like that, I don’t think… though I do write really long novels. I’d like to try one, someday, though.
What are some of your favorite examples of any of these three kinds of symbols in literature? And what is it you think makes them really good… or really bad? I’d be fascinated to hear any you could think of.Oh Whoops! I should have realized that as well.
Ahh… I definitely see what you mean there, and yes, those can definitely add, but can also definitely subtract from your writing. I think that in some situations these types can be used… well, a little too often. If in every, or even just every other chapter and scene you put in another one of these symbols, I as a reader would become bored with your story, and would most likely not want to try out any of your other works.(that may just be my reading style though :).) On the other hand, if you plop one in in a very tense scene it can be quite out of place unless your readers know something of how your character reacts. I realize that this doubles over into the invented symbols also, but I thought it also holds a place in international symbolism. Hmmm… In literature… hmmm… I’ll have to think on that one and I will let you know! 😀 I’ve really enjoyed reading your thoughts!Oh, absolutely use them sparingly! My max (which I have not yet reached) is two such little symbols to an entire novel. Otherwise they lose their significance— their deeper meaning, their mystery, their chilling beauty. There is no ‘oooooh!’ moment, when you realize something is more than meets the eye. It becomes bland— ‘oh yeah, another one of those symbol thingies. Nice.’
And I realized as soon as I hit submit that I myself couldn’t think of a single example of what I was talking about in literature… and I said to myself ‘Kate, you really need to make sure you can answer questions like that yourself before you ask them.’ My apologies— if you can think of any, let me know, but don’t worry if you can’t. I won’t hold it against you. 🙂Yes! I definitely agree with your first paragraph. I think setting a limit would make so many authors works much better!
I have actually thought of one or two examples of symbols in books… I don’t know if you read the Redwall series or not, but in them the sword of Martin the Warrior pretty much symbolized good fortune and the fact that if there was need there would always be someone there to continue his work. If that makes sense. And the other one I thought of was… Well. That goes to show you that you should write research things down! I’ve forgotten sense last night! Whoops! But that’s one that I thought of:) it’s really challenged my to think though! Thanks!Yes, we agree here. And unfortunately that means this topic is at an end— humph. I’ve really enjoyed this little discussion. Discussion is a new found passion with me.
Oh boy… I know what it’s like to have something all prepared and nice and logically set out in your head, and then forget it because you forgot to write it down! (Only in my case, I usually don’t write it down just because I’m too lazy 🙂 I should carry a notebook at all times, but that would scarcely be practical.)
I’ve not read the Redwall series, but I think I get what you’re saying. I can see how that would make a good symbol, and I would actually class that symbol as a created one, not a universal one, from what you told me. It sounds like it was done well, which that kind more seldom are. And… the first discussion opened on Kingdom Pen’s new forum draws to a close. Any ideas, anyone?Well now. That’s sad. I have also really enjoyed this discussion!
I definitely do that all the time! (and most of the time I actually do have something to write it down with…) :D, yes, he did a very good job with it! I meant to say that that was a created one, but I guess I didn’t put it, so that was exactly what I was thinking, but sometimes words escape me in actually getting typed, Sorry!
I’ve really enjoyed thinking more indepthly (is that even a word?) about Symbols and symbolism. Thank You for starting this discussion!Thank you for carrying it on with me!
Okay, I think this topic merits reintroducing. 🙂
New thought on this. Sometimes, symbols can be used to actually tell the story.
Let me explain. I’ll use an example because I have no idea if this kind of… thing… has a technical term.Say we have a fantasy world where each and every single person has a candle— lit and burning from the moment they are born, and unable to be extinguished until the moment the person dies, when the candle goes out of its own accord. Say all the candles are kept in a church/temple/sanctuary/vault thing used for nothing but that purpose.
Now say we have a character who dies, but we don’t want to actually show the character’s death for some reason or another.
We can show their candle going out instead.
Say our character marched out to do battle, and instead of following the character, we could follow, say, the character’s mother. She could be watching the candle, and we could witness the character’s death through her eyes as she sees the candle flicker out, even though the character may be millions of miles away.So I have no idea what kind of a thought that was— but I thought it was pretty cool.
That thought, was an inspiring one! @kate-flournoy You almost got me to cry out in agony for the poor mother sitting there teary eyed as she watched the flickering flame go out in a little poof.
I love symbols. Especially when they are something other than a necklace. 🙂 Although I’ve used a necklace before in a book I’m actually working on right now 😉 Necklaces have become the most often used symbols because they’re easy for the hero to wear and feel and always have with them. It’s not so easy for our brave, courageous hero to walk around with their great-grandmother’s lace croquet pillow and still look fearless.
But when it comes to symbols, some of my favorites that I’ve seen used and love using myself are the character’s surroundings. In Princess Academy, the hero Miri lives on a mountain filled with linder (some special mineral) and throughout her three book series, Miri carries around a carved linder block in the shape of a swan. But no matter how far she travels, whenever she is in a house made of linder, or a castle, or she finds some in the ground, when she reaches out to touch it and stroke it’s smooth stone, I can tell she misses her mountain her family and longs to return to them. It’s also used to represent strength and the uniqueness of her people on the mountain.
In the novel that I actually finished, my hero is racing against time to return a ransom to the villain for the release of her father. But she has to get it there before the blue moon sets. It’s a ticking time bomb. Every time we see her look at the moon at night, we feel her anxiousness, the sweat dripping down her temples and are reminded of the need to find the ransom and return to set her father free before it’s too late. And nearing the end of middle portion of the story, right before the climax, as the night of the blue moon’s rising approaches, that symbol is used at it’s fullest potential.
Anyway, I love using the hero’s surroundings for symbols.Ooo and what about villains. I think they have their symbols too. Like every time you hear an evil laugh, you know something bad’s going to happen. 🙂
https://rolenahatfield.com/
Princess Academy sounds fascinating. And the surroundings symbol is a really good idea. And…
It’s not so easy for our brave, courageous hero to walk around with their great-grandmother’s lace croquet pillow and still look fearless.
That so totally made me laugh.
Sometimes, symbols can be used to actually tell the story.
Hmmm… I’m thinking that this is the whole purpose of symbols anyway. They’re there to tell the story. Just like the blue moon in my novel, or the linder stones in Princess Academy or the ring in LOTR. Their all there to tell us something about the character, remind us about something that has happened.
That way we don’t info dump on our readers or tell instead of showing, if we set up the symbols meaning in the beginning. We can show our character watching the flickering candle, not even wishing to blink until the flame goes out. The candle told us that her son was dead. And we didn’t even have to write out this long paragraph describing his death scene. We were able to show it with a symbol. It made it more interesting and maybe even a bit more meaningful.*sigh* yep, I love symbols.
https://rolenahatfield.com/
YES. ABSOLUTELY ONE HUNDRED PERCENT CORRECT @ROLENA-HATFIELD
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