- This topic has 55 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 6 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Hello KeePers.
Look! It’s me! I’m actually posting something again! *hysterical laughter*Okay, so I’m going to go ahead and tag @Mark-Kamibaya here because he mentioned love triangles over on our Favorite Movies thread and that’s what made me think of this.
So, in thinking of this, I noticed something I’d not thought of before. Love triangles today have almost become synonymous with dumb, boring, cliched writing for amateurs who can’t think of a single other plot-thread to create tension.
And yet if we comb through the work of the classical authors, there are love triangles EVERYWHERE. Literally. Everywhere. Eponine Thenardier, Marius Pontmercy, and Cosette ‘Fauchelevant’ from Les Miserables. Sydney Carton, Lucie Manette, and Charles Darnay/Evremond from A Tale of Two Cities. Edmond Dantes, Mercedes Whose-Last-Name-I-Never-Remember, and Fernand Mondego from The Count of Monte Cristo. And let’s not even mention Jane Austen’s stuff.
And all of those love triangles I absolutely loved (excuse the pun 😉 ). Yet supposedly love triangles are this big bad horrible cliched thing that no self-respecting writer would ever want to put in their story. Why? What makes this so?Well, I think there are two main answers to that question. The first is this: the love triangles in classical literature are so much more than tacked-on tension. Each one of those love triangles I mentioned above was absolutely crucial to the story. The ending of A Tale of Two Cities would have fallen flat without Sydney’s hopeless love for Lucie. Eponine’s unspoken love for Marius would have been sorely missed merely from a plot stand-point, and don’t even get me started on the thematic ramifications. And for pity’s sake, The Count of Monte Cristo without the love triangle wouldn’t even have HAPPENED!
The second answer is a bit more involved. The classical authors, debatably Christian or not, had a correct perspective on romance. What do I mean by that? Well, one thing about modern love triangles I hate is that they never end with me still loving all three characters. Now sometimes they aren’t meant to— what if the girl was in love with a scoundrel?— but assuming they’re just three normal people that one of them has to choose between, it inevitably ends in a miserable wreck and hopeless stomach-aches because somebody’s life is now in complete shambles and the other two don’t care. It’s just so depressing.
Why? I think it’s because romance is presented as the ultimate goal. News for ya people— it isn’t. And when it’s presented as the chiefest thing to strive for and someone loses it, OF COURSE IT’S GONNA BE DEPRESSING. NOW THERE’S LITERALLY NOTHING LEFT IN THE WORLD TO STRIVE FOR AND LIFE IS ENDED AND WOE IS ME I’M GOING TO GO DROWN MYSELF IN SORROW AND DIE A MISERABLE DEPRESSED DEATH AND NEVER LET GO OF THIS BECAUSE NOW ALL MY CHANCES ARE ENDED AND I’M JUST GOING TO LIVE IN THE PAST FOREVER AND STEW OVER WHY SHE DIDN’T PICK ME. It’s selfish and it makes me hate the character to pieces.
Now it’s perfectly fine to have a character with that mindset and show it as wrong. But for the stereotypical stupid love triangle, this happens every time because the losing character was one-dimensional and literally had no other life outside of his quest for love. That is the wrong perspective and it’s unfair to the character besides.
Compare that to the classics. Sydney Carton gladly died to save the man his sweetheart loved. Edmond Dantes remade his life without the woman he was engaged to marry and learned to let go and find happiness even so. Eponine saved the life of the man she loved even when she selfishly wanted him to die because he wouldn’t take her. They all rose above their selfish hurt in some way and lived for something more, and I don’t know about you, but I think that’s beautiful.So what do you guys think? I’m all ears!
@kate-flournoy I characteristically have nothing to add, so I’m going to disguise the fact be rambling. First of all, The Count of Monte Cristo. I’m so glad you brought that up, because I love that book and it’s always good to bring it up. Secondly, the idea of the unpicked one has been fascinating me. I feel like that would make a great premise for an entire book. And, yes, you’re right. About it all. Fun post. Like your rants.
🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢
@Daeus *shocked eyes* What, you— you love TCoMC??? Wow, I… who would have ever guessed?!
Hey, rambling’s great. By all means. Ramble away.Wait! Wait! I actually do have something to say. That is that it is actually ok if you end up disliking one of the lovers, just only if it’s done right. You don’t want to dislike them if they’re actually a decent person, but another technique is to make them an evil or fatally misguided person who would only end up hurting the object of the love triangle in case of a marriage. In this case, the story will generally start with this person seeming attractive to start with and then following a disillusionment arc around them.
🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢🐢
@Daeus exactly. I have no problem with that at all. Great point. It’s when the character is supposed to be likeable but only has that one goal that I start to lose it.
Brilliant forum post @kate-flournoy, I enjoyed reading this one. You should write a whole article on this topic. It would be great! One of my strongest pet peeves from a love triangle is when the main character cannot possibly seem to choose between two guys and just keeps leading both on by continuing to flirt with both and even kissing both.
It’s also definitely annoying when the book has a great plot, but all of a sudden it gets pushed aside when the main character and some other random character fall in love and they drone on and on about that instead of focusing on the task or quest at hand. If you are going to write romance into your story, it needs to be a vital part of the plot. Believe me, I like my romance, I will even admit to watching many a cheesy rom com, but in books, there is a very wrong way to write in romance, and nearly all YA novels have that as their fatal flaw.
Also, random note, have you seen the three different Studio C music video’s on the Hunger Games? Those are priceless and they sort of fall into this topic. 🙂
Theater kid. Currently depressed because I can't stop listening to sad musicals.
@Christi-Eaton YES. I can’t think of any examples right off the top of my head, but girls that lead both guys on are incredibly annoying. That’s a whole different set of problems right there. 😛
Definitely agree with you there. It doesn’t necessarily have to be main (Faramir and Eowyn) but it has to have its place in the story and serve some other purpose aside from ‘romance’.
I haven’t seen those videos, no.
- Rank: Wise Jester
- Total Posts: 77
@kate-flournoy Your posts are lovely, keep them up 😀
Me reading: *cough* _Hunger Games_ *cough*
I completely agree with you (particularly the rejected person part xD) and was going to add what Christi said about flirting with both people, but she made it first ;P
I also hate how modern books make romance so shallow and ridiculous… but don’t get me started on that rant, it won’t ever end.Oooh; I like this topic. Lots of great points, Kate. I totally agree. Perhaps another important difference is that in 2/3 examples you picked, the MC was /not/ the winner of the love triangle, so instead of just being a gushy ending of success, the MC actually has to face hardship and work through it to become a better person. But yeah. Really loving this topic.
Editor-in-Chief Emeritus. Guiding authors at Story Embers.
Romance these days, be it triangle or not, is very cheesy… there have been very few romances I’ve read where I was actually glad it was there. Author’s seem to lose sight of what love actually is, and they play it up to be some big emotions thing because the girl is so beautiful and when he’s with her, he feels this tightness in his throat and his heart begins to flutter because she smells like pine needles! *cough* Eragon… *cough cough*
Now I’ve never been in a relationship before, so I might not be the most experienced person on the subject, but I have watched a lot of real life situations, in my family and friends, and I’ve gathered that romance stems from friendship. So when you fall in love with someone, you’re probably still going to treat them like your best friend, and not be all, “Darling, I love you so much, your laughter is like the sweetest song on my ears, let’s not even talk about anything practical, because we have something better! LOVE!!!” Blah blah blah.
@Daeus Yes, the Unpicked One! Why has no one ever done that? I’ve always thought that would be an amazing study in character arcs, growth, conflict, inner struggle, etc. If no one ever writes a book about that, I just might.INTJ ➸Your friendly neighborhood mastermind. ➸https://thesarcasticelf.wordpress.com/
@Aysia-Serene ha, yes. There’s so much to be said on that subject it’d take whole books. 😛
Perhaps another important difference is that in 2/3 examples you picked, the MC was /not/ the winner of the love triangle, so instead of just being a gushy ending of success, the MC actually has to face hardship and work through it to become a better person.
@Aratrea yessss, definitely. Pain for the character— always good. *diabolical grin*
@Ethryndal totally know what you mean. A lot of that has to do with the devaluing of love in our culture as a whole. :/
And while I’m sure a romantic relationship is more than a friendship, you’re right. The friendship part is still going to be there.There is actually one really simple way to avoid all flat, gushy, unrealistic tropes ever, guys. And that’s view each and every one of your characters as a real person, no matter what plot-role they fulfill. I wrote a love triangle on accident this way. Two guy characters clashed over a girl because it’s what they both would do and that’s how the plot needed to play out; she chose the wrong one for the right reasons, and there was a whole big mess before she ended up with the right guy, and then the guys parted with mutual respect, if not friendship. It was only about a year later I realized ‘Kate, that’s what they call a love triangle.’ 😛
So if you approach your characters as people and not plot-devices, things are gonna be a whole lot easier.Has anyone ever attempted Charles Dickens’ Little Dorrit? That one had a great love triangle in in.
INTJ ➸Your friendly neighborhood mastermind. ➸https://thesarcasticelf.wordpress.com/
@Ethryndal yes! I’ve seen the BBC series of it and I started the book, but I hate electronics and it was on kindle, so I’m kinda looking for it in physical format (unabridged 😛 ) before finishing it.
That love triangle was actually not my favorite just because I didn’t care all that much for Pet Meagles, and I was mad at Arthur for falling for her with Amy right under his nose, but as a love triangle it was very well constructed and definitely had its place in the story.@Kate-Flournoy I was actually talking about the one between John Chivery, Arthur, and Amy. I kind of forgot the one between Pet and Arthur. 🙂 Probably because I didn’t like it that much either…
INTJ ➸Your friendly neighborhood mastermind. ➸https://thesarcasticelf.wordpress.com/
@Ethryndal OHHH!!! Yes, okay! That one was just adorable. I’m sorry. 😛 Painful but it was so cute, and the way it turned out was beautiful for everyone. Poor John. 😛 Yes, definitely lots to be admired there.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.