Magic systems Vs Powers Vs Gifts!

@godlyfantasy12

Great topic, I’m working on my magic system right now!

So are you implying in this system that any magic not natural to the species is being used for evil? Or can they use it for good sometimes, even though they weren’t, design-wise, equipped to do so?

Or would that be called a Gift, because it’s being used for the Light?

It’s making basic sense tho, good job with that, making sense is hard XD

(Also I see we both call our types\shadows of angels Guardians!!)

My magic in OEC is almost all unnatural, not-meant-to-happen. Two of the species – humans and Guardians – are trying to essentially become the best elements of each other, even though it’s dangerous and not meant to be. The dogservants get sucked in, and used as a resource, even though they are the most moral of the living and don’t want any of it.

As a result, you get mixed-up beings, who are almost all power-hungry and unnaturally formed.

Marcel is a wild card in all this, because he was the second ever, and he was pushed into it. Whether or not he should be considered good or evil magic-wise is still up for discussion.

The humans have their own abilities, which I’ve been trying to develop. These can be either good or evil depending on their source of power and their birthplace in the person’s life. It’s coming along nicely, and I’ll update once it’s a little tighter XD

And Sebastian Universe magic is coming along nicely! It’s all abilities. Nothing unnatural, per say. It’s definitely looser, but it depends on the characters finding their own resources and using them correctly, so it has a bit of structure too.

*stealthily subscribes*
I’ll def be joining this convo later 😏

@godlyfantasy12

You didn’t tag me, but I thought I’d bump in😅

So, if we are accepting the generally accepted definitions at least, this would formally be called a “magic system” even though in world there is a distinction. This happens a lot in fantasy actually. Tolkien for example did this, where the hobbits talked of elf magic, but to the elves, it’s just the way things are. That being said, looking into a bowl that shows you aspects of past and future is indeed an aspect of a magic system. Avatar the Last Airbender does this as well. There’s a clear cut “magic system” where individuals are able to manipulate the four main elements through physical artforms. In world however, the idea of calling this magical is scoffed at.

This all has to do with what we are defining as “magic”. There’s too many ways people look at this word. One may define it, as you mentioned, as simply what we cannot define or understand. This is a clear-cut definition that gets the idea across. However, imagine a tiny woodland elf walks into a human house. He sees light come from strange orbs from the ceiling, are they perhaps magical dragon eggs? He sees tiny waterfalls appear and disappear when you twist a simple nob, very magical indeed, to be able to command something so powerful as the thing that grants life.

This reminds me of the law “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic” from Arthur C Clark. So is the light and water magic? Depends on who you ask if this is the definition you subscribe to. When the term “magic system” was coined however, a very different definition is being used. Some magic systems are very rigorously understood and defined, that’s what makes them a “system”. So if you have a perfect understanding of these magic systems, do they lose the magic? In some ways yes, but the definition of magic here would be more like what laws (or absence of laws) are different from our world, whether they be understood or not.

Magic in the most real sense, I believe is the breaking of natural law. Things like Prophesy could easily be called magic if you subscribe to “what we don’t yet understand” or “different laws” if your an outside prospective, but the reality is Prophesy isn’t magic, because it is natural law, though it is of a higher law. I think this is more akin to what you were saying concerning your magic system.

So ultimately, whatever is going on in your world be it called magic, gifts, ect, it is all a magic system if you accept the definition the term magic system was originally and currently used to mean. However, in world, that definition can go completely void, and you can arrange things however you want to, and I think you made a very good arrangement. It focuses on a few key ideas of what magic is, and there’s a lot of potential themes you can get into with that. There is the way things were made, then there’s the way things just became, I like that. I do have a question though if you don’t mind: If the Light One created magic, and magic is what makes things behave as they weren’t originally created to behave, what about magic itself? If magic is part of creation, can magic make magic behave in ways it wasn’t created to behave like? This may be a silly question, and you can simply say magic can’t act on itself, but if it can, there could be a lot of very intriguing possibilities.

@godlyfantasy12 Oooh!

This’ll be fun.

Whenever I see it in other stories, powers/gifts/stuff you were born with and “magic” that you learned are usually separate. In my own stories, that’s kinda hard to distinguish.

Snake, for example, who you’ve met in one of the RPs, was born with what’s called “magic” in his story. He can manipulate virtually any object to do whatever he wants–but possibly at the expense of his own sanity if he does it wantonly. It’s not normal, but it is genetic. I guess you could call it a “gift” by your definition if you want.

Or, I haven’t done this yet, but I sometimes wonder whether could go the way Keeper of the Lost Cities and Wingfeather Saga do and call it all “the way the world works.” WFS did this quite well, but I think that was one element of the worldbuilding that KOTLC kinda fell flat on, since they were blatantly denying all of science and natural law with no explanation, while simultaneously claiming it’s not magic either.

@thearcaneaxiom Can the magic act on itself? I’ve seen instances where that does happen–for example, a character in one book I read did something that would protect him from the possibly dangerous effects of his power, but would also restrict him from using it in way that would affect other characters’ free will. Another character used her power to eliminate the magic from all current wielders because she was afraid of her own power and thought it would be better if there was no more of it for the rest of her life.

In those two instances, the magic acts upon itself, and this system was what I modified my own system from, so I’d suppose the same thing would happen in my world, but no one there has tested it.

@godlyfantasy12

I love the idea that “bad magic” is essentially rebellion against the Light, manipulating what was originally made to be a beautiful thing into a dark and twisted thing. It’s very good. If you’ve ever read Jack Zulu and the Waylander’s Key, you will have read one of my recent favorite books that addresses this in it’s themes. At first I was a little concerned when S. D. Smith brought up “magic” in our world (what you said yours wasn’t), but then I was blown away. He entwined Biblical principles into his magic system where there were enchanted swords and gates to other worlds, but when this beautiful magic was manipulated by the villain Rancast to rebel, ultimately, against God, then evil things like monsters and twisted power happened. (Then he connected it with when people try to find power outside God.)

So, it was rebellion, just like the Bible says.

Anyway, long rant, but I’ve been wanting to rant on that for a while. I actually have another couple pages of mental notes, but that’s probably enough. (Hopefully it made sense.)

I also love the gifts. It’s like in WFS when the world itself is wonderful. Why should it go by the same laws ours does? That’s just boring!

I will confess though, it does bug me to use the term “magic”. I prefer the miracles to be acknowledged as such. However, I don’t mind when it’s like WFS or Narnia, or even LotR (books). Yours sounds good. It might have to join the list. XD