Do they have to have a spark of goodness???

@freedomwriter76

Im going to say they kind of need a spark of goodness in them in a twisted way

By this I mean they have to have a spark of goodness in them from the villains perspective. What I mean is people don’t do things without justification.

I mean example wise you can look at someone like Sauron (one of the most classic epitome of evil trope, villains) Sauron legitimately thinks that what he is doing with the one ring and taking over middle earth is good because it is the only way to fix the pain and suffering (is he right, probably not)

I mean in a more world war 2 esque example and use Adolf Hitler. Most (maybe all) historians think that Hitler did not believe he was a bad person. In fact Hitler probably believed he was one of the most brilliant people ever and that he was going to follow the principles of Social Darwinism and actually advance the human race. (in case you didn’t know Hitler was the leader of Germany in WWII and commuted genociede against the Jews. He is also know as one of the worst people to ever exist and was not a good person in any shape or form)

what I’m saying is no they don’t have to be likable (see Commodus from the move Gladiator (one of the greatest villains in cinematic history)) but in their mind they have to believe that they are good and have justification for their actions.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by Folith-Feolin.

@freedomwriter76

Interesting question, and I can definitely see where you’re coming from. I think we want to teach our readers something through all our characters, not the least being the villains. Because of this we often want our reader to sympathize with the villain a little, but this isn’t always what’s needed. It depends on what role your villain plays.

Also, it is worth noting that all things begin with the opportunity to live unto Good or Bad. Things often begin pure, but evil – sin – corrupts. Look at this world. Or even our adversary, satan, who, although there is no good in him, began as a literal angel of light. We all have a choice to make. There doesn’t have to be any good left in your villain; there’s no good in sin anyway.

Now for examples….

Fiction:

The White Witch. (The Lion the Which and the Wardrobe) She is the epitome of evil and is a form of sin/satan.

Sauron. (Lord of the Rings) Is a deceitful servant of evil from his beginning, becoming the master of Mordor and the Lord of the Ring. The embodiment of evil and a form of spiritual darkness in this world.

Morbin Blackhawk. (Green Ember) The prey lord of the High Bleaks, he is the master of Garten and the ultimate hater of anything good. He plays a role of being the “unconquerable evil” that is overcome by those who are not afraid to stand against evil.

And there are many real life examples in history and even in our day. Fallen humanity has a habit of destroying itself. We all make choices to deny Good or Bad, and in the end we become what we choose to entertain in our lives.

Hope that ramble helps! 🙂

@freedomwriter76

@elishavet-pidyon @godlyfantasy12 and @folith-feolin have all made some great points.

I agree with what they’re saying. Most if not all good villains think that what they are doing is right. I don’t think that anybody goes out and does something wrong just to do something wrong. We all have some kind of intent behind our actions, even if we’re not aware of it.

Though we are all born with a sin nature, nobody is “born a villain.” They become one. So if you’re searching your villain’s history and his personality, trying to find some spark of goodness and can’t, I think that’s okay. As long as you show that he thinks he is doing the right thing.

Take Judas Iscariot from the Bible, for example. He was probably a good man, but because of his sin nature and his lusts, he betrayed Jesus, which we see that he regrets later. (Speaking of, I am so mad at The Chosen for making us like Judas because we all know what he’s going to do later on! 😠😅 Anywho…) While the Bible doesn’t clearly tell us the complete intent behind Judas’ actions, I think it is safe to assume that Judas did what he did for someone’s benefit. Probably his own.

(Side note: I find it amazing how Jesus still showed him love and compassion, despite knowing what Judas was going to do. Actually, Jesus had Judas sit at the place of honor beside him. And, I heard from somewhere, that the “sop” that Jesus dipped and gave to him, was given to the guest of honor. Plus, when Judas led the soldiers to Jesus in the garden, Jesus called him Friend. Isn’t our Savior so amazing? ❤️)

Pardon the random rant. XD

Anyway, back on the topic of villains.

Even if you don’t ever see or find one drop of goodness in your villain, it could still be somewhere in them, though it may not be clearly evident. But, I’m not sure. 🤷🏻‍♀️

In our world, it may seem like the darkness envelopes the light, diffusing it. But it’s the other way around! Christ’s light destroys darkness! When there is darkness in our stories, we have to remember that it’s only there to make the light shine even brighter!

I hope that helped! 😀

@freedomwriter76

Good topic!

Imo, every story needs a good mix. I think there are some people who just continue evil paths. I would show an inner conflict, or one from the past though. Maybe they think about how ten years ago they questioned their actions, but didn’t back out. Maybe they are glad they didn’t back out idk. It just shows that they are human, because I think most humans would at one point question their actions, even if they shove the question back inside and continue. I mean if the villain is mentally ill, they might not. But I think most people would.

(Note: This is probably going to be long. XD)

I’m going to take a theological approach to this at the beginning. Scripture says two things on the state of man: (1) Man was created in the image of God, as seen in Genesis 1:27, and (2) man has fallen short of the glory of God and no longer upholds that image as he should, as seen in Romans 3:10-18.

Essentially, the life of every human being – and, with that said, of characters – is a war between the remnants of being created in God’s image and their sin nature ever since the fall. There are a variety of ways to strengthen one side over the other (community, the Holy Spirit, philosophy, etc.), but these two facts always remain in there somewhere.

But the question that arises from that is: Is it possible for someone to starve one side of this war, in this case, the image of God, so much that it essentially no longer matters?

I would argue that, yes, it is possible. I’d argue that this can occur through a number of reasons: A few that come to mind originally are fear (being hurt and vowing to do anything needed to avoid ever being hurt like that again), anger (this one plays into the fear aspect – “you hurt me, so let me rip your world apart”), skewered views (there are legitimate times when a villain believes they’re acting as a hero or is willing to make horrific sacrifices now in order to one day, possibly, achieve their idealistic future world), greed (not the just love of money, though that’s a big one (see 1 Timothy 6:9) but also of power, for other possessions, for control), as well as, to an extent, a fallen love (i.e. loving someone/something so much that you don’t care what else you do so long as it akes them happy).

The above is a non-exhaustive list of reasons why someone might suppress their role as an image-bearer, but it doesn’t touch on how. As all of the others have alluded to, no one starts as a villain since childhood. No matter someone’s spiritual standpoint, all are born with a conscience which, as they mature, tells them right from wrong (see Romans 2:14-16).

Yet Scripture also talks of a “conscience seared” or “defiled” (see 1 Timothy 4:2 and Titus 1:15). It is both biblically and factually possible to damage your conscience to the point where you act on your own without its proddings. But this happens over a series of things – perhaps growing up in a society where evil runs rampant (especially when it’s pointed at the character as a child), or having consistent company that pulls you towards wrongdoing, or repeated crimes himself.

In essence: All men are created in the image of God, and this fact cannot be changed. But it is entirely possible that they are treated and act in such a way that their sin nature overpowers their image-bearing to the point where the former no longer affects what they do.

(What, me? Miss reading Aristotle/Plato/Socrates last year? Noooo, what makes you think that? XP)

• This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by Karissa Chmil.

@freedomwriter76

I think that it is not that all villains need a spark of goodness it is more that they need a reason. In their eyes their actions must be justified (this doesn’t have to be something exactly good but there must be justification (ie villain is selfish). There is a difference. Also you can make a likeable villain without making them have any outstandingly good trates. Sometimes them being super smart, maybe having a cool saying, or other things can help make them likeable.